Not By Works

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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How else can grace be a means to licentiousness than to claim it is "freedom" to do it?
We could not be warned not to use our freedom wrongly unless we are actually free.

Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

1 Peter 2:16
Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God's slaves.

If the Son has set us free, are we not indeed free?

The Good Shepherd will not lose even one of His sheep.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Where does Isaiah say the Sabbath is for corporate worship?
'sabbath' is only found in Isaiah 6 times.
the only one he could be referring to is Isaiah 66:23, which says all flesh will worship before God from new moon to new moon and sabbath to sabbath.

this could simply mean from month to month, week to week.
if it means that the sabbath will be kept in the millennium then it also means new moon festivals will be.
God made the moon on the fourth day, and rested on the seventh. the moon comes before sabbath.
seems to me you could say therefore the new moon festival is at least as important & arguably more: in fact, the new moon festival is not commanded in the law; it is simply assumed. this is interesting because sabbatarians typically argue that sabbath was implicitly commanded ever since the day God rested; this being the case it came after man, who was created on the 6th day - but the moon was created before man.

if ceremonial sabbath inactivity in the flesh is implicitly commanded the day after man is created, then it stands to reason that new moon festival observance is implicit even before man's creation -- Adam had "a day off" before he was implicitly commanded to observe sabbath lest he be damned ((not my argument)) -- but from the moment he was created he was under obligation to keep new moon observance.

@Phoneman-777 do you keep the new moon festival?

 
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this is all previously discussed & thoroughly refuted.
You've refuted nothing.
agape is the noun form of the verb agapao. that's just linguistics 101. it's fact. 1 John 2:15 & 1 John 4:7 equivocate agapao & agape - among many other verses, but 2 witnesses is enough to destroy your false doctrine ((whether you accept it or not doesn't matter at all. the truth is the truth))
The reason why you fail to locate a single verse where "agape" is said to be received and demonstrated by the wicked is because 1 John 3:7 KJV says the "agape of God" is demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments, yet Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't demonstrate the "agape of God" even if they wanted to. Your foolish "agapeo = agape" argument fails right here and only a fool would continue to argue against the plain Word of God in these two texts.
'love growing cold' is spoken of in good terms in Revelation 3:15. it's the lukewarm who are spewed out of His mouth, not the cold.

In the Olympics of Asinine Exegesis, this clearly wins the silver, the gold winner being your idea that the wicked can partake of agape. Scripture repeatedly equates "hot" with "fervent zeal for God" -- "cold" is the absence of such zeal. Lukewarm" is the mixture of the two - "zeal" and "unbelief" - a perfect description of the OSAS crowd who think they're OK, but are "wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked" as they hopelessly trust in their made-up License to Sin while rejecting the gold "agape of God" which is demonstrated by obedience, the white robe of "Godly character", and the eyesalve of "Godly discernment" that they may cease from lukewarmness and become hot. There's a chance the "cold" may repent, but Jesus spits out the lukewarm because they refuse to repent.

in Matthew 24, the ((Jewish)) disciples
Scripture says no more Jews/Greeks or any other such divisions for those who are "one in Christ Jesus", so your flawed exegesis fails right here. Why do I have to keep pointing out the obvious to you?
your pet 'gotcha' verse which you horribly misinterpret as evidence that Christ will lose His sheep, is in the context of the answer to the 3rd question of the ((Jewish)) disciples: the end of the age of the Gentiles. the tribulation, aka "Jacob's trouble" -- a specifically Jewish event.
Again, there's no "Jewish event" in the last days, because "Jews" have nothing to do with end times prophecy - that is a JESUIT FUTURIST INTERPRETATION which no Protestant should subscribe. Protestants historically taught correctly the Antichrist was the Papacy, and only later Papists began teaching Futurism. Are you a Jesuit or not?
a time when the antichrist will be killing as many Jews as possible.
the love of many Jews will grow cold. many Jews will betray other Jews. a time when Christians will have been raptured.
Bulldookey - there is no pretrib Rapture, because 2 Peter 3 says when the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, life on Earth won't be able to continue for seven more minutes, let alone seven years.
but you ain't ready to actually talk about any of this, are you?
you just want to talk about how you think anyone who doesn't ceremonially observe the physical sign of the Mosaic covenant ((sabbath)) will not be saved, right? you only want to tell us that salvation is by physical sabbath observance, right?
you want to destroy our faith? you only want to tell everyone whose faith is in Christ that Christ is unable to save them, that they must add ceremonial ritual inactivity in the flesh to their faith in order to be perfected, right? you hate the assurance we have.
The answer to every one of these is an emphatic "no", with the exception to "you want to destroy our faith" - yes, I want to destroy your DEAD FAITH and replace it with LIVING FAITH so that you can inherit eternal life. That's what Christians do when they see a brother in error: they REBUKE them (Leviticus 19:17 KJV)
 
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Yes, there are licentious people. Jude condemned them to hell. James spoke of them, as CLAIMING to ave faith.

But tht does not negate what the word means. You claimed the word means something that it does not. In doing that you LIED.

Yet here you are continuing to try to defend your LIE.
Lies? Several new translations have Jude using the word "license" or "licentiousness". That's exactly what the OSAS crowd does! They turn the grace of God into a License to Sin.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't demonstrate the "agape of God" even if they wanted to.
Romans 8:7-8 says: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to
the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Romans 8:7 doesn't speak to the issue of love as you erroneously claim, but law.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The answer to every one of these is an emphatic "no", with the exception to "you want to destroy our faith" - yes, I want to destroy your DEAD FAITH and replace it with LIVING FAITH so that you can inherit eternal life. That's what Christians do when they see a brother in error: they REBUKE them (Leviticus 19:17 KJV)
um... do you keep the new moon festival?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Lies? Several new translations have Jude using the word "license" or "licentiousness". That's exactly what the OSAS crowd does! They turn the grace of God into a License to Sin.
Dude I gave you the greek defenition of that word.

As was shown to you earlier. Just because people may do it. Does not prove the concept wrong/

You want to earn your salvation and take a bunch of people down with you. Feel free.

You can ave that self rightious gospel..

I will chose to follow God. Eternally is far to long for me to trust in myself
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Again, there's no "Jewish event" in the last days, because "Jews" have nothing to do with end times prophecy
sorry neighbor but you preach BS



For thus says the LORD:
We have heard a voice of trembling,
Of fear, and not of peace.
Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.
For it shall come to pass in that day,
Says the LORD of hosts,
I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
But they shall serve the LORD their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.
(Jeremiah 30:5-9)
the great tribulation is a very, very, very Jewish thing.
it is the end of the age of the Gentiles.
replacement theology is garbage vanity.


you're a big hot theological mess. i don't know if i've ever read a single correct doctrine come from your mouth.
let's start correcting that with the basics: is Christ God?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
Lies? Several new translations have Jude using the word "license" or "licentiousness". That's exactly what the OSAS crowd does! They turn the grace of God into a License to Sin.
you don't have to be worried that salvation will be stolen just because it's free.
stop slandering people; it's sin.


do you have faith in God?

is that an hard question for you to answer? why?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
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talk talk talk
blah blah blah


Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
(Galatians 5:1-7)
 
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People "using" the idea of Grace as licentiousness means that Grace should be rejected???
No, this OSAS misuse of grace should be.
Is Grace dangerous? No. Only to legalists who try to push legalism not knowing what they say or affirm.
When it comes to the Path of the Just, it does no good for those who've fallen into the Left Ditch of License (the OSAS crowd) to sit there yelling across the road at those stuck in the Right Ditch of Legalism - both need to climb out and get back on the Path with the rest of us who stick to the middle of the road.
OSAS could give people the idea that they could live any way they want and still be saved.
No, it gives those who don't want the overcoming power of Christ but do want to go to heaven the false security that they may cling to Christ and sin at the same time.
We can't keep the Law. That is true. The Lord Jesus already knows no one can keep the Law. No reason to tell Him facts He has Established.
The OSAS crowd "cannot do all things through Christ" including overcoming presumptuous sin because "the carnal mind is...not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be", which is why they need a OSAS License to Sin.
The Only Way out of Condemnation is through and In Christ. Its not by pretending to keep the Law.
Actions are merely the outward evidence of inward spiritual condition - the very fact that the OSAS crowd needs a License to Sin to continue driving down the Road to Perdition - and condemns as "pretenders" those who walk the Path of the Just - is proof positive of their spiritual condition.
 
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Where does Isaiah say the Sabbath is for corporate worship?
Isaiah 66 in the New Jerusalem.

Question: If the first 6 days are for "all thy labor and and all thy work" which was from dawn till dusk after which people collapsed in exhaustion for bed to get ready to do it all over again the next day, and the 7th day was for rest, on which day do you think God was corporately worshiped? Do we really have to ask?
 
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Romans 8:7-8 says: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to
the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Romans 8:7 doesn't speak to the issue of love as you erroneously claim, but law.
Please show in which post where I "erroneously claimed" Romans 8:7 speaks of the issue of love. Never happened. Look, here's a simple exercise: Read 1 John 3:7 KJV which says "agape" is demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments, then read Romans 8:7 KJV which says the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to .... and then ask yourself this question: Are the wicked able to demonstrate "agape" love fills their hearts? If you're honest, you'll agree the obvious answer is "no".

Which means the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV whose "agape" grows cold and dead leaving them unable to endure to the end and thus are not saved --- ARE SAINTS --- with whom Jesus contrasts the man in verse 13 who "shall endure to the end shall be saved".

OK, all that's left now is to give OSAS a proper burial, right or wrong?
 
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um... do you keep the new moon festival?
Colossians says "new moons" were nailed to the Cross along with the ceremonial "sabbath" yearly feast days - I do keep the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments b/c it "stands fast forever and ever" which is why we'll be keeping it in New Jerusalem, after all those who fought against the commandments of God are cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
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Dude I gave you the greek defenition of that word. As was shown to you earlier.
So, how does the Greek disprove that OSAS is the very "license" Jude says people in the last days would misuse grace to obtain?
Just because people may do it. Does not prove the concept wrong/ You want to earn your salvation and take a bunch of people down with you. Feel free. You can ave that self rightious gospel..

I will chose to follow God. Eternally is far to long for me to trust in myself
If you're following a God which says outward sinful habits are NOT the evidence of a deceived, lost soul, you're not following the God of the Bible b/c He plainly says in 1 John 2:3-4 KJV "he that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth (Jesus) is not in him."
 
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sorry neighbor but you preach BS



For thus says the LORD:
We have heard a voice of trembling,
Of fear, and not of peace.
Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.
For it shall come to pass in that day,
Says the LORD of hosts,
I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
But they shall serve the LORD their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.
(Jeremiah 30:5-9)
the great tribulation is a very, very, very Jewish thing.
it is the end of the age of the Gentiles.
replacement theology is garbage vanity.


you're a big hot theological mess. i don't know if i've ever read a single correct doctrine come from your mouth.
let's start correcting that with the basics: is Christ God?
Sorry, but you preach a false Gospel which ignores the NT:

"...he is not a Jew which is one outwardly....but he is a Jews which is one INWARDLY whose circumcision of that of the heart."
"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed..."
"And as many as walk according to this rule (THE RULE THAT WE ARE NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST JESUS), peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God."

So, unconverted Jews ain't Jews,
unconverted Jews ain't Abraham's seed,
and unconverted Jews ain't "the Israel of God" --

THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH IS, not those who call Jesus "son of a whore" and "the great imposter". And, no rebuilt temple in which the lamb sacrifices will be a giant, collective, national MIDDLE FINGER in the face of God would ever be referred to by Paul's pen of inspiration as "the temple of God".
 
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you don't have to be worried that salvation will be stolen just because it's free.
stop slandering people; it's sin.


do you have faith in God?
is that an hard question for you to answer? why?
We don't worry about anybody "stealing" salvation from anyone - our concern is for the OSAS crowd who rejects 1 John 2:3-4 KJV and instead says they know Jesus DESPITE their refusal to keep His commandments, and think their truthful while lying through their teeth in claiming "I know him" while refusing to obey His commandments, and cannot see by their outward action the truth (Jesus) in not inwardly enthroned on their hearts.
 
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again: previously discussed, thoroughly refuted, and wholly ungermane.


I would thou wert cold
(Revelation 3:15)
You must've missed the part where I showed "hot" means on fire for Jesus, "cold" means not on fire for Jesus (but hope remains to be so)....and "lukewarm" which refers to the OSAS crowd which has been throughly ensnared by falsely thinking they're hot but are not, and refuses to be shown their wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked condition, that they might repent...