Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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Pretty much agree, but we must not confuse the marriage feast with the feast of the birds. We wouldn't want to be eating what they are eating. 
Revelation
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
Revelation
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
1 Thessalonians
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
If He brings them with Him, how did they get up there in the first place? We shall see in the following verses that explain it to us...
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
It tells us that before we come down, we must go up. Revelation shows the Church in Heaven before Jesus takes them back down...
Revelation
19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
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Well why didn't you tell us that before?...and all this time, silly me was just relying on what the Bible said.
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The armies in heavens are comprised of Angels and the Spirits of the Saints who have died and are waiting for their Resurrection into Glorified Eternal Bodies made in His Likeness.
Only the LORD Jesus has a Resurrected Glorified Body in Revelation chapters 1 thru 19.
Revelation chapter 20 is the First Resurrection spoken of in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and 1 John chapter 2 thru chapter 3.
Only the LORD Jesus has a Resurrected Glorified Body in Revelation chapters 1 thru 19.
Revelation chapter 20 is the First Resurrection spoken of in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and 1 John chapter 2 thru chapter 3.
BUT THAT in no way shows A GROUP PRE TRIB BEING TAKEN TO HEAVEN. ALL it does show is those who have been saved and who's flesh bodies have died have gone to be with the Lord
SEE the subject is THOSE OF FAITH WHO'S FLESH DIE, CONTINUE ON LIVING JUST LIKE CHRIST BECAUSE AS HE DIED AND WAS RAISED, SO ARE THEY.
1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
concerning them which are asleep, NOT CONCERING THE CHURCH AS A GROUP/UNIT/BODY and NOT AT a set specific time being pre 'great' tribulation
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
HERE HE GETS very specific as to what happens TO THE INDIVIDUAL SAVED SOUL
1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
THAT IS HOW ALL THE SAINTS AND THE SAVED GET TO HEAVEN AND HOW THEY ALL RETURN WITH HIM.
BUT BY THIS POINT IN TIME, the great tribulation has ended with Christ and His armies returned to the earth, the vials poured out, and the Lords Day COMMENCING, THE kingdoms of the earth are become HIS
Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
AS YOU CAN SEE, YOU HAVE SAID IT AGAIN, BUT AGAIN, NOT SHOWN GOD TO SAY IT.
Are you trying to say that those who are BLESSED WHICH ARE CALLED unto the marriage ARE not really called to the supper at all but have in fact been rendered 'the wife'?
Two only 2 resurrections.
Joh 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,......
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Only 2 resurrections
Joh 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,......
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Only 2 resurrections
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FreeGrace2 said:
and God sends them to the proper waiting area.
The 3rd heaven IS a waiting place for the new earth, which is the eternal state. All believers who die before the Tribulation go to the 3rd heaven. All unbelievers go to "torments" in Hades, awaiting the GWT judgement and being cast into the lake of fire.
What did you think about souls who die and where they go?
and God sends them to the proper waiting area.
The 3rd heaven IS a waiting place for the new earth, which is the eternal state. All believers who die before the Tribulation go to the 3rd heaven. All unbelievers go to "torments" in Hades, awaiting the GWT judgement and being cast into the lake of fire.
What did you think about souls who die and where they go?
FreeGrace2 said:
Talking about the difference between mortal and immortal bodies. NOTHING about resurrected bodies being taken to heaven.
Did you forget what you were claiming to prove?
Did you read my comment above? This question is irrelevant to my comment.
The words 'raised up' refers to dead physical bodies being resurrected UP out of the ground to be joined to the soil, who will be with Jesus as He ends the Trip and Armageddon and sets up His Millennial reign on earth.
Talking about the difference between mortal and immortal bodies. NOTHING about resurrected bodies being taken to heaven.
Did you forget what you were claiming to prove?
Did you read my comment above? This question is irrelevant to my comment.
The words 'raised up' refers to dead physical bodies being resurrected UP out of the ground to be joined to the soil, who will be with Jesus as He ends the Trip and Armageddon and sets up His Millennial reign on earth.
FreeGrace2 said:
I see nothing about resurrected bodies. I DO see the souls of dead saints being given heavenly clothing to wear. btw, all of this is occurring DURING the first set of God's wrath on the earth IN the Tribulation.
What!?? Please explain yourself.
I see nothing about resurrected bodies. I DO see the souls of dead saints being given heavenly clothing to wear. btw, all of this is occurring DURING the first set of God's wrath on the earth IN the Tribulation.
What!?? Please explain yourself.
FreeGrace2 said:
This is about all saints in heaven preparing to return with Christ at the Second Advent. Their bodies will be resurrected when Jesus comes to earth. 1 Cor 15:23.
OK, I'm getting tired. NONE of the verses above say ANYTHING about resurrection with a trip to heaven.
So I'm not going to continue with all the rest. I did read them and there were STILL no references to being resurrected and then taken to heaven.
So far, your score is still ZERO.
I see just fine. What doesn't exist are any verses describing Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.
Nope. These saints are the souls. They are awaiting their resurrected body.
And will be resurrected into a glorified immortal body. Read 1 Cor 15.
I'm more aware of what is written than you seem to be.
This is about all saints in heaven preparing to return with Christ at the Second Advent. Their bodies will be resurrected when Jesus comes to earth. 1 Cor 15:23.
OK, I'm getting tired. NONE of the verses above say ANYTHING about resurrection with a trip to heaven.
So I'm not going to continue with all the rest. I did read them and there were STILL no references to being resurrected and then taken to heaven.
So far, your score is still ZERO.
I see just fine. What doesn't exist are any verses describing Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.
Nope. These saints are the souls. They are awaiting their resurrected body.
And will be resurrected into a glorified immortal body. Read 1 Cor 15.
I'm more aware of what is written than you seem to be.
FreeGrace2 said:
Question is not clear. By the time of the Tribulation, the VAST MAJORITY of the "body of Christ" will ALREADY be in heaven.
Why do you say no? On what basis?
Do you agree that there is just one resurrection of the saved, per Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23?
Do you agree that there will be a post tribulation resurrection, per Rev20:5?
If you disagree with either question, please prove that the verses listed do not teach what my question expresses.
Thanks.
You didn't answer my questions. So please don't ignore them and add your own.
Your questions appear to conflate verses. Not the way to study the Bible.
Question is not clear. By the time of the Tribulation, the VAST MAJORITY of the "body of Christ" will ALREADY be in heaven.
Why do you say no? On what basis?
Do you agree that there is just one resurrection of the saved, per Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23?
Do you agree that there will be a post tribulation resurrection, per Rev20:5?
If you disagree with either question, please prove that the verses listed do not teach what my question expresses.
Thanks.
You didn't answer my questions. So please don't ignore them and add your own.
Your questions appear to conflate verses. Not the way to study the Bible.
FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.
Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.
Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).
1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.
Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?
No it's NOT. In 1 Cor 15:23 the word "first fruits" refers only to the FACT that Jesus is the FIRST to receive a glorified body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Christ would suffer and, as the FIRST TO RISE FROM THE DEAD, would proclaim light to His own people and to the Gentiles.
There are NO examples of the singular resurrection and "main gathering" and "gleanings", or the Bible would have made that clear.
Jesus is "firstfruits" in the sense of being the FIRST to receive a glorified body. Period.
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.
Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.
Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).
1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.
Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?
No it's NOT. In 1 Cor 15:23 the word "first fruits" refers only to the FACT that Jesus is the FIRST to receive a glorified body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Christ would suffer and, as the FIRST TO RISE FROM THE DEAD, would proclaim light to His own people and to the Gentiles.
There are NO examples of the singular resurrection and "main gathering" and "gleanings", or the Bible would have made that clear.
Jesus is "firstfruits" in the sense of being the FIRST to receive a glorified body. Period.
FreeGrace2 said:
1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.
Of course it is. The term "when He comes" is a singular event, which is the 2nd Advent. The term "those who belong to Him" refers to everyone who is saved.
Not in 1 Cor 15:23. Give me context for your phrase and I will respond.
I have no idea what you are talking about. There is ONE resurrection, which will be "when He comes" at the 2nd Advent.
1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.
Of course it is. The term "when He comes" is a singular event, which is the 2nd Advent. The term "those who belong to Him" refers to everyone who is saved.
Not in 1 Cor 15:23. Give me context for your phrase and I will respond.
I have no idea what you are talking about. There is ONE resurrection, which will be "when He comes" at the 2nd Advent.
FreeGrace2 said:
John 5;28,29 and Acts 24:15.
I'm sorry you can't count or recognize the singular "resurrection".
Good point! Because that's all there is.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
OK, how many resurrections do you see in this verse?
Prove your claim with Scripture that makes CLEAR there will be more than one resurrection of believers.
Why does any verse have to meet YOUR demand? The word is in the singular. That's plenty enough for me.
If there were more than one for believers, the Bible would have said so. So prove your claim with verses.
I DO have evidence for the singular. You DON'T have evidence for plural resurrections.
John 5;28,29 and Acts 24:15.
I'm sorry you can't count or recognize the singular "resurrection".
Good point! Because that's all there is.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
OK, how many resurrections do you see in this verse?
Prove your claim with Scripture that makes CLEAR there will be more than one resurrection of believers.
Why does any verse have to meet YOUR demand? The word is in the singular. That's plenty enough for me.
If there were more than one for believers, the Bible would have said so. So prove your claim with verses.
I DO have evidence for the singular. You DON'T have evidence for plural resurrections.