Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[cv5]

Many of us are seeing them and experiencing them every day, and in every way.

Cell phone videos. Please. Testimonials of legitimate healings with confirmation by MD references would help too. A severe case of leprosy would be the ideal candidate.

The Biblical standard of "go show yourself to the Priest as a testimony" still applies today. Replace Priest with Church elders.

 

[kaylagrl]

There are 2 narratives you can follow in the book of Acts, there is the narrative of the apostles or there is the narrative of those who scoffed.

As I said in another post, RA thinks it's his job to correct everyone he deems as wrong. Apparently no one can read the Word for themselves, and the Holy Spirit must have taken a sabbatical. lol

 

[Polar]

I would agree that there are some pretty big holes in how Pentecostals conduct themselves and of course there are different groups within Pentecostalism. It seems they major in tongues and do not practice that the way the Bible says that we should. I believe that the gifts are still in operation today, but NOT how they are supposedly practiced in many Pentecostal churches.

Frankly, I would not attend another one. I would attend a church that obeyed scripture and followed through with Paul's instructions.

 

[Polar]

If it were not for the Pentecostal/Charismatic revival Evangelicalism would have been history a long time ago.

Oh I doubt that. I think you might be leaving God out of the equation and the fact He can raise up anyone He wants to fulfill His purposes. Frankly, I wish I never gone to a Pentecostal church. Not much good I can say about that denom. Plenty of fake stuff going on though.

I am somewhat taken aback that you think God depends on Pentecostals to do all His work on earth. That's really presumptuous.

 

[Polar]

says the reprobate-------
Jesus was clear His own would do greater works than He, whereas most would hold to an outward form denying the power.
Thank you Evmur, for being a genuine Christian.

Why do you call him a reprobate? Why do you align Pentecostals as being genuine and yet those who differ from that persuasion are what? Pagans?

The name calling does not come from God.

And before you decide I am also without God, I speak and pray and sing in tongues and have experienced several other spiritual gifts as God saw fit.

What you folks do not seem to grasp, is that if there was not so much FAKE nonsense going on in Pentecostal and many Charismatic churches, people would not be pointing it out!

 

[kaylagrl]

Pentecostalists are not a cult. We are entirely orthodox and evangelical. What we do is apply those good evangelical doctrines concerning salvation also to our PHYSICAL well being. Healing and godly prosperity.

We believe in FULL salvation for the total man. Body, mind and spirit or body soul and spirit.

If it were not for the Pentecostal/Charismatic revival Evangelicalism would have been history a long time ago.

When they talk about falling numbers they mean traditional evangelicals, the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches continue to multiply.

In China there are now MORE christians than America and Pentecostalism is all they know. Africa and even India is opening her doors.

Praise the Lord.

Perhaps the Lord would have raised someone else up, but I guarantee you this, they would have had the spirit of Pentecost, no matter what they were called. It's not the denom. it's the Spirit. It's what caused the Gospel to go round the world, it was the boldness that caused the disciples to sing while in prison for sharing the Gospel, the Holy Ghost and fire.

 

[shittim]

Why do you call him a reprobate? Why do you align Pentecostals as being genuine and yet those who differ from that persuasion are what? Pagans?

The name calling does not come from God.

And before you decide I am also without God, I speak and pray and sing in tongues and have experienced several other spiritual gifts as God saw fit.

What you folks do not seem to grasp, is that if there was not so much FAKE nonsense going on in Pentecostal and many Charismatic churches, people would not be pointing it out!

that was too strong in retrospect.
he does seem to take joy in rejecting the truth of the gospel, always has.
If we are truly His, we don't have a "view", we are becoming more and more the image of the Son, His thoughts become our thoughts, His actions become our actions.
As long as we hold a "view", we are still focused on ourselves, and missing the mark by doing so.

 

[Polar]

that was too strong in retrospect.
he does seem to take joy in rejecting the truth of the gospel, always has.
If we are truly His, we don't have a "view", we are becoming more and more the image of the Son, His thoughts become our thoughts, His actions become our actions.
As long as we hold a "view", we are still focused on ourselves, and missing the mark by doing so.

Well I'm glad you say so. You know, I do not see the truth of the gospel being spiritual gifts. What is the gospel? Isn't it John 3:16 pretty much? and then the rest follows. Gospel simply means 'good news' We cannot all be equal in our understanding or our walk. We are supposed to grow in Christ, right? So a view is more likely equated with where a person is in their walk/understanding.

As I have stated, I do believe in the spiritual gifts but I have seen so much misuse of them, that if God Himself did not make Himself real to me, I would doubt there was such a thing. I really have seen some outrageous stuff that people purport to be of God.

There was a time I had never even heard of tongues or the possibility of demons yet I believed in Jesus.

We all hold views. Some views are based on scripture and some are not but I don't think there is a way to get around having a 'view'

 

[ResidentAlien]

As I have stated, I do believe in the spiritual gifts but I have seen so much misuse of them, that if God Himself did not make Himself real to me, I would doubt there was such a thing.

What are genuine tongues? Are they some heavenly language, or know human languages?

 

[Evmur]

The way I see it, Pentecostals today are long on salesmanship........and short on product.

Please provide some cell phone videos of these innumerable acts of speaking in tongues. I need to conduct a forensic examination.

Thank you.

I would not waste my time, God spects you to believe His word ...

 

[Evmur]

Oh I doubt that. I think you might be leaving God out of the equation and the fact He can raise up anyone He wants to fulfill His purposes. Frankly, I wish I never gone to a Pentecostal church. Not much good I can say about that denom. Plenty of fake stuff going on though.

I am somewhat taken aback that you think God depends on Pentecostals to do all His work on earth. That's really presumptuous.

Well you might have said the same about Wesley and Methodism, the fact is that is who God chose and who He worked with.

 

[kaylagrl]

that was too strong in retrospect.
he does seem to take joy in rejecting the truth of the gospel, always has.
If we are truly His, we don't have a "view", we are becoming more and more the image of the Son, His thoughts become our thoughts, His actions become our actions.
As long as we hold a "view", we are still focused on ourselves, and missing the mark by doing so.

RA opines, just like everyone else here. He's giving his opinion, like everyone else.But he tears denominations down, I assume he is against attending church, I don't recall him saying which denomination he sanctions. Some believe the gifts have ceased, some do not. Neither us can know WHEN the gifts will cease. So it's a matter of opinion one way or the other. To then make the huge leap to Pentecost is cult and attendants are demon possessed is ridiculous, utter baloney.

 

[Polar]

What are genuine tongues? Are they some heavenly language, or know human languages?

Oh no you don't LOL! I know how that one goes.

I believe and practice that gift as per the scripture. If I am not mistaken, you do not believe there are unknown tongues. Well, to that I can say if a person does not know every language on earth, both current and no longer in use, then they can never say that the use of what is to them an unknown tongue, is not of God.

There are supposedly 7100 languages currently at use in the world and it is believed that there are 573 languages not in use or extinct. I don't suppose any of them are extinct to the Holy Spirit. I do not think anyone could possibly state that with the possible use of over 7600 languages from which to choose, they could tell that it was fake. I can't answer for those who just go 'nah blah nah' all the time. I don't do that.

Please note, I am not talking about the possibility of the language(s) of angels here as there is just one mention of that in scripture I think? but I don't think we can just dismiss that either, but I am not insisting or creating a doctrine about it either.

 

[Polar]

Well you might have said the same about Wesley and Methodism, the fact is that is who God chose and who He worked with.

So? There are people alive today that God uses that none of us ever heard of. What is your point?

Was Moses Pentecostal? sheesh

 

[Evmur]

I would agree that there are some pretty big holes in how Pentecostals conduct themselves and of course there are different groups within Pentecostalism. It seems they major in tongues and do not practice that the way the Bible says that we should. I believe that the gifts are still in operation today, but NOT how they are supposedly practiced in many Pentecostal churches.

Frankly, I would not attend another one. I would attend a church that obeyed scripture and followed through with Paul's instructions.

they would be Pentecostalists for following through on Paul's instructions means earnestly desiring the gifts especially that ye may prophesy ... I would that ye did all speak in tongues.

Paul never retracted that and the canon of scripture is closed.

 

[Evmur]

What are genuine tongues? Are they some heavenly language, or know human languages?

can you evaluate what is genuine preaching or genuine prayer?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Oh no you don't LOL! I know how that one goes.

I believe and practice that gift as per the scripture. If I am not mistaken, you do not believe there are unknown tongues. Well, to that I can say if a person does not know every language on earth, both current and no longer in use, then they can never say that the use of what is to them an unknown tongue, is not of God.

There are supposedly 7100 languages currently at use in the world and it is believed that there are 573 languages not in use or extinct. I don't suppose any of them are extinct to the Holy Spirit. I do not think anyone could possibly state that with the possible use of over 7600 languages from which to choose, they could tell that it was fake. I can't answer for those who just go 'nah blah nah' all the time. I don't do that.

Please note, I am not talking about the possibility of the language(s) of angels here as there is just one mention of that in scripture I think? but I don't think we can just dismiss that either, but I am not insisting or creating a doctrine about it either.

Such a long and convoluted answer tells me you're afraid to just come out with your belief so I'll tell you mine. If you think you're exercising tongues properly and speak in so-called angelic or heavenly languages, you're missing the mark as well.

 

[Polar]

they would be Pentecostalists for following through on Paul's instructions means earnestly desiring the gifts especially that ye may prophesy ... I would that ye did all speak in tongues.

Paul never retracted that and the canon of scripture is closed.

No one is called a Pentecostal in scripture. That is a 'coined' name. I practice the gift of tongues. I am not Pentecostal and I have led people to the Lord and I do not get in people's faces about such a misused gift as tongues. Paul said it was the least of the gifts most likely, IMO, because who can tell if it is real or not?

I have herd fake tongues and it raises the hairs on the back of your neck. Discernment please.

I don't how many times I state I believe the gifts are for today. It seems that some people are deaf to the fact that the reason there is so much controversy, is because of the misuse of so many gifts.

 

[Evmur]

So? There are people alive today that God uses that none of us ever heard of. What is your point?

Was Moses Pentecostal? sheesh

You wouldn't believe Moses ... what? turning rods into snakes and parting the sea with it?

 

[Polar]

Such a long and convoluted answer tells me you're afraid to just come out with your belief so I'll tell you mine. If you think you're exercising tongues properly and speak in so-called angelic or heavenly languages, you're missing the mark as well.

It isn't convoluted. It's just you not getting the argument you wanted LOL! I stated I was not talking about the language of angels and yet there you go, as if I did. Not genuine of you at all.

I made an excellent point regarding languages and you handily ignore that as well. You will have it your way and it seems you do.