Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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Oh, so you did promote a heresy, huh? This is pathetic, reading the exact same word of God with polar opposite conclusions, your words against mine.
FreeGrace2 said:
How do you get "largely symbolic"? The 2 passages are describing virtually the same thing.
How do you get "largely symbolic"? The 2 passages are describing virtually the same thing.
I've already gave you the verses, those are the truth, go read it yourself. It's symbolic because no literal mountain is ever moved in those verses, that's a biblical expression. If you don't take my words, why don't you do your own study and research?
It is you who don't listen and don't read, it is you who keep repeating the same thing without moving on to anywhere else, you only have yourself to blame.
FreeGrace2 said:
How do you get "largely symbolic"? The 2 passages are describing virtually the same thing.
But can you at least answer simple questions here? What makes the passages "symbolic"?
I read the passages and I believe they are literal. Everyone better buckle up when the mountains move.
Symbolic, my eye.
How do you get "largely symbolic"? The 2 passages are describing virtually the same thing.
What is it that you still don't understand? I gave you 2 passages that say basically the same thing and I asked how you get that they are "largely symbolic". Of course EVERY verse is truth, so you don't need to preach to the choir here.
But can you at least answer simple questions here? What makes the passages "symbolic"?
How do I know this isn't just your own opinon. How do you know that God won't literally move mountains? The verses actually say the earthquake is like NOTHING ever experienced before. That would certainly include moving mountains and islands.
Where would I study to come up with your own opinion?
Wrong again. I asked you where you got your "symbolic" opinion from and you dismissed the question. And I did read your reply which is why I asked my question.
No, I blame you directly for ignoring my question of where you got your opinion from.
I read the passages and I believe they are literal. Everyone better buckle up when the mountains move.
Symbolic, my eye.
Wowser. I temorarily un-ignored some people and......what a mess.
Something to think about: The Bible states that the already married bridegroom Jesus arrives with His bride (the bride follows the Lord Jesus whithersoever he goeth) and holy angels at the Second Coming to the Earth.
Bearing that in mind all of a sudden Matthew 24 and 25 make perfect sense. In fact the entire millennial reign makes perfect sense. No conflicts no loopholes no confusion.
Endtime eschatology makes perfect sense if and only if the rapture of the church occurs befor the 70th week of Daniel begins.
Something to think about: The Bible states that the already married bridegroom Jesus arrives with His bride (the bride follows the Lord Jesus whithersoever he goeth) and holy angels at the Second Coming to the Earth.
Bearing that in mind all of a sudden Matthew 24 and 25 make perfect sense. In fact the entire millennial reign makes perfect sense. No conflicts no loopholes no confusion.
Endtime eschatology makes perfect sense if and only if the rapture of the church occurs befor the 70th week of Daniel begins.
Only the nonelects can receive the mark. It's impossible for God's elects to receive the mark of the beast. God's elect have the mark of the Holy Spirit. No one
https://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-symbolism.html
Carry_Your_Name said:
I've already gave you the verses, those are the truth, go read it yourself. It's symbolic because no literal mountain is ever moved in those verses, that's a biblical expression. If you don't take my words, why don't you do your own study and research?
v.12-14 -
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
v.18-20 -
18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.
19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.
20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found.
Thanks.
I've already gave you the verses, those are the truth, go read it yourself. It's symbolic because no literal mountain is ever moved in those verses, that's a biblical expression. If you don't take my words, why don't you do your own study and research?
Do you believe the description of the great earthquakes in Rev 6:12-14 and 16:18-20 are literal or symbolic?
v.12-14 -
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
v.18-20 -
18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.
19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.
20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found.
Thanks.
Matthew 17:20
King James Version
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Matthew 17:20 talks about faith.
Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 38:19-23, Joel 2:10-11, Joel 2:30-32, Haggai 2:6, 21, Matthew 24:29-34, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:24-29, Mark 13:31, Acts 2:19-20, Luke 21:25-33 and Hebrews 12:26-28, Revelation 6:12-17, Compare Daniel 7:13-14, 27, Ezekiel 13:13, Revelation 11:15-19, Revelation 16:17-21 talks about the signs of Jesus 2nd Coming.
Revelation 1:7
New King James Version
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
OK, so you also believe that the mountains will be moved in the earthquakes.
In verse 6, both times the term "Israel" is used it is unquestionably speaking about ethnic national Israelites. The gentile Church is nowhere to be found in verse six.
Nope.No, my friend, we are "gathered together unto Him" at the same time of "the coming of the Lord", according to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV.
Right after Paul tells us of the gathering and the coming, he uses the singular noun "the day of Christ is at hand" and "that day shall not come". He doesn't say "these two different days that are separated by 7 years" -- he says "day". The gathering and the coming happen on the SAME DAY
Rev 19:7......the ALREADY WEDDED "wife" of Jesus is already in heaven preparing for the wedding feast, being dressed in fine linen "clean and white".
Rev 19:11......heaven is opened, as the Second Coming to the earth has commenced.
Rev 19:14......armies (PLURAL) "which were in heaven" FOLLOW HIM, "clothed in fine linen white and clean".
This of course because the rapture has already occurred in Revelation chapter 4:1. The Church is clearly seen in the 24 elders in Revelation chapters 4 and 5. Before the 70th week of Daniel seven year tribulation ever begins.
Romans 9:6 - "It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel."
Verse 6 the Holy Spirit differentiates between Israel of the flesh and the Israel of God which is of the SPIRIT New Birth(John 3:1-21).
Romans 9:7 - "Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”
Verse 7 clarifies that Abraham's True Spirit Born Descendents are from the Promised Seed = ISAAC.
Romans 9:8 - "So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the Children of the Promise who are regarded as Offspring.
Verse 8 completes verses 6-7 emphasizing that flesh born descendants of Abraham are not the Promised Seed.
Romans 9:9 - "For this is what the promise stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
Verse 9 defines for us the PROMISED SEED which is the Miraculous Birth of MESSIAH as foretold by Sarah's miraculous birth of Isaac.
OFFICIATED by the Prophetic Word again here in verses 23-26
What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory— 24including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles? 25As He says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘My People’ who are not My people,
and I will call her ‘My Beloved’ who is not My beloved,”i
26and,
“It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’ they will be called
‘sons of the living God.’ ” = the Israel of God
CONCLUSION:
What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.
32Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
33as it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling
and a rock of offense;
and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame.”
Second WITNESS to the Israel of God Born by the SPIRIT = 1 Peter chapters 1 & 2
Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”
7Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
8and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people,
that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
FINAL CONCLUSION of the HOLY SPIRIT for all Spirit filled Believers:
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:26-29
Blood washed Sanctified Gentiles are ABSOLUTELY spoken of in Romans 9:6 as the entire chapter is about there being TWO distinct Israels' = one of the flesh and One of the PROMISE
v8 = So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children,
but it is the Children of the Promise who are regarded as Offspring.
The lie of pre-trib rapture and the lie that His Bride is not spoken of in Matthew ch24 is of the enemy, is carnal and is SIN.
Reject the lies and embrace the TRUTH = John ch17
Actually, the Lord is speaking to his disciples on the mount of olives. The "Ye" and the "you" are to the disciples.
That's the Jews, God's elect. Elect is always for service not salvation. Always.