Cherry Pickers Anonymous

[Live4Him3]

That’s a deduction and inference but it isn’t clear Peter considered Paul’s writing the same kind of holy writ as they did the Law and the Prophets. I mean it doesn’t just say “Paul’s writings are scripture.” So I’m lead to believe they weren’t considered holy writ at the time they were written.

If Peter didn't consider Paul's epistles to be "scripture", then why did he compare them to "the OTHER scriptures", and not just to "the scriptures"?

The Colossians 4 passage, from my perspective, doesn’t really say the epistles were widespread. We at least know the Colossians epistle was in Laodicea, but that’s all. Actually, it seems to say we’re missing an epistle called Laodiceans from the canonized Bible.

Standing by itself, it doesn't. However, when we compare what was said there with other internal witnesses from the New Testament, then we can certainly deduce that New Testament scriptures were widely circulated in the first century. If you do follow the link that I provided in my last response, then I think that you will see that for yourself.

As far as the Bereans go, they were certainly looking to the Old Testament books as their scripture considering they were Jewish.

Acts 17:10,11
10And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

In this particular instance, I would certainly agree with you. After all, Paul's primary source for his preaching was the Old Testament scriptures. That said, Paul did clearly call something from Luke's gospel "scripture" when he said the following:

I Timothy chapter 5

[17] Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Here, Paul quoted two scriptures...one from Deuteronomy, and one from Luke 10:7.

In fact, Paul's quote is an exact match of part of Luke 10:7 in the underlying Greek.

 

[Live4Him3]

Lets just say it's eschatological phased fulfillment....

My comment that follows is NOT aimed directly at you because I don't even know what your end-time beliefs are.

That said, I laugh (I really want to cry) when I hear certain people mention the word "eschatology" which literally means "a study of the LAST things or days".

https://www.etymonline.com/word/eschatology#etymonline_v_11606

eschatology (n.)

1834, from Latinized form of Greek eskhatos "last, furthest, uttermost, extreme, most remote" in time, space, degree (from PIE *eghs-ko-, suffixed form of *eghs "out;" see ex-) + -ology. In theology, the study of the four last things (death, judgment, heaven, hell).

This "eskhatos" is the same exact underlying Greek word which is translated as "last" in the following verse of scripture:

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. " (I Corinthians 15:52)

Although this Greek word literally means "LAST", multitudes of professing "Christians" believe that it's not really "the LAST trump" which perfectly coincides with the seventh or LAST trumpet of the book of Revelation.

Why?

Well, so that they can hold on to their erroneous beliefs surrounding an alleged "mid-tribulation rapture" or "pre-tribulation rapture"; neither of which is ever going to occur.

Anyhow...

 

[cv5]

My comment that follows is NOT aimed directly at you because I don't even know what your end-time beliefs are.

That said, I laugh (I really want to cry) when I hear certain people mention the word "eschatology" which literally means "a study of the LAST things or days".

https://www.etymonline.com/word/eschatology#etymonline_v_11606

eschatology (n.)

1834, from Latinized form of Greek eskhatos "last, furthest, uttermost, extreme, most remote" in time, space, degree (from PIE *eghs-ko-, suffixed form of *eghs "out;" see ex-) + -ology. In theology, the study of the four last things (death, judgment, heaven, hell).

This "eskhatos" is the same exact underlying Greek word which is translated as "last" in the following verse of scripture:

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. " (I Corinthians 15:52)

Although this Greek word literally means "LAST", multitudes of professing "Christians" believe that it's not really "the LAST trump" which perfectly coincides with the seventh or LAST trumpet of the book of Revelation.

Why?

Well, so that they can hold on to their erroneous beliefs surrounding an alleged "mid-tribulation rapture" or "pre-tribulation rapture"; neither of which is ever going to occur.

Anyhow...

OK. Nevertheless it is biblical prophecy fulfilled (in phases) to the very day.

 

[hornetguy]

I know that this thread is about cherry-picking, but excuse me for a moment while I engage in a bit of nit-picking.

I Corinthians chapter 8 is not about whether or not it's okay to eat meat generally speaking, but rather it's about whether or not it's okay to eat meat offered in sacrifice unto idols specifically speaking.

I Corinthians chapter 8

[1] Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
[2] And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
[3] But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
[4] As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
[5] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
[7] Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
[8] But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
[9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
[10] For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
[11] And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
[12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
[13] Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Anyhow, I agree with your overall points, but it would have been better if you had included the part about the meat being "sacrificed unto idols" or if you had just referenced Romans chapter 14 instead, which is a chapter that you certainly seem to have alluded to in your post.

Like I said, just a bit of nit-picking to avoid any possible confusion on the parts of others who might read this conversation and who might not presently have the same knowledge or understanding of scripture that you do.

Yes, it specifically was talking about eating meat sacrificed to idols.. but I think the main point was that mature Christians know that eating that meat would create no spiritual issues, but a newer, more immature Christian would worry about what they were eating.... just as the Jews worried that they could not eat pork, etc...
Peter was specifically taught that the old dietary laws were not binding anymore, just as the old prejudices against Gentiles were not binding anymore. Neither one is "unclean" to God, and should not be for us.

What bothered me about the original posting I referenced was the apparent flip attitude toward a Christian that might have some reservations about eating pork, or other things.. we should not just blow that off as "well, if they wonder about that, then we're in a heap of trouble, spiritually.."
That is why I referenced Paul's discussion about "weaker" brothers....

Nit picking doesn't bother me at all, brother....

 

[Lanolin]

Amongst the Amish...everyone works and labor is divided into who can physically do what. Women can lift the buckets of sap and tend the fires...they tend to wear out too much when trying to lift 100 lb bales of hay and feed all day.

sorry but thats idiotic to lift more than you can handle. Everyone knows it takes two people to lift heavy things and to use perhaps a trolley or leverage to move anything heavier
the amish choose not to use labour saving devices such as cherry pickers, and make women beasts of burden? . what has that got to do with anything.

 

[Jocund]

Yes, it specifically was talking about eating meat sacrificed to idols.. but I think the main point was that mature Christians know that eating that meat would create no spiritual issues, but a newer, more immature Christian would worry about what they were eating.... just as the Jews worried that they could not eat pork, etc...
Peter was specifically taught that the old dietary laws were not binding anymore, just as the old prejudices against Gentiles were not binding anymore. Neither one is "unclean" to God, and should not be for us.

What bothered me about the original posting I referenced was the apparent flip attitude toward a Christian that might have some reservations about eating pork, or other things.. we should not just blow that off as "well, if they wonder about that, then we're in a heap of trouble, spiritually.."
That is why I referenced Paul's discussion about "weaker" brothers....

Nit picking doesn't bother me at all, brother....

The topic becomes interesting when we consider meat as metaphor for teachings, cultures, customs, traditions, etc.

 

[Lanolin]

That's one definition, but that's not what Gary is addressing here.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cherry-pick

What does cherry-pick mean?

To cherry-pick is to choose very carefully. It especially means to select the best of what’s available or being offered.

The word sometimes implies that doing so is solely for one’s benefit or gain, or to gain an advantage over others.

In the context of research and data, it’s used in a more specific way meaning to selectively choose and present information that supports an existing point of view or hypothesis. This kind of cherry-picking is often unethical.

Whereas you've described the first definition given above, Gary is talking about the bold-faced part or about a different definition or meaning of the term.

but this isnt what people do when reading the Bible.

The entire Bible is scripture, it cannot be broken, its not DATA or RESEARCH.

Its Gods word.
It cant support an existing view or hypothesis, it just is what it is.

we are not performing science experiments and looking for a forgone conclusion on BDF. Its just people discussing the Bible, and sharing scripture that speaks to them.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Edify]

A new name for this website?

The largest assembly of its kind in one place?

A group that does not realize that they have a problem?

I have never in my life seen so many people in one place who seemed absolutely "bent" on interpreting the scriptures to say anything but what they actually say.

It is sad.

It truly is.

SMH

I wonder if anyone considers the fact that all over the internet there are people sowing disinformation on purpose to back the govt., & the media spreading the same disinformation for the sake of the elitists?
Since the NWO covers govt., business, & religion for establishing the Anti-christ system, it should come as no surprise that they have people on christian websites spreading religious disinformation to confuse christians & turn them away from the Lord.
Look up the word "sockpuppets" and you will begin to see the picture better.
BTW, fighting among yourselves is only doing what the Devil wants.

 

[Beckie]

I wonder if anyone considers the fact that all over the internet there are people sowing disinformation on purpose to back the govt., & the media spreading the same disinformation for the sake of the elitists?
Since the NWO covers govt., business, & religion for establishing the Anti-christ system, it should come as no surprise that they have people on christian websites spreading religious disinformation to confuse christians & turn them away from the Lord.
Look up the word "sockpuppets" and you will begin to see the picture better.
BTW, fighting among yourselves is only doing what the Devil wants.

Open differing discussion is not fighting.

 

[Inquisitor]

E.g.:

"Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead." - John 11:13-14 KJV

At times the apostles were rebuked for their ignorance.

Mark 8:14-21
And the disciples had forgotten to take bread, and did not have more than one loaf in the boat with them. And He was giving orders to them, saying, “Watch out! Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and the leaven of Herod.” And they began to discuss with one another the fact that they had no bread. And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why are you discussing the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet comprehend or understand? Do you still have your heart hardened? Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember, when I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces you picked up?” They said to Him, “Twelve.” “When I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of broken pieces did you pick up?” And they *said to Him, “Seven.” And He was saying to them, “Do you not yet understand?”

 

[Edify]

IDK about Cherry Pickers Anonymous.
Maybe it ought to be called Heretickers Anonymous, lol!

 

[Thewatchman]

I'm not sure what your motive/purpose was in posting this, but this even longer context only further proves my initial point.

For example, we read:

Isaiah chapter 28

[9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
[13] But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
[14] Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
[15] Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
[16] Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Again, the actual context of this whole "precept upon precept" thing is that of certain Jews who sought justification via the law of Moses while falling backwards or stumbling over the stumbling stone of Christ, the very one whom Moses wrote about in the law.

As Jesus said:

John chapter 5

[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
[40] And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
[41] I receive not honour from men.
[42] But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
[43] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
[44] How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[45] Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[46] For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[47] But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

I do not understand this “Again, the actual context of this whole "precept upon precept" thing is that of certain Jews who sought justification via the law of Moses while falling backwards or stumbling over the stumbling stone of Christ, the very one whom Moses wrote about in the law.”


Isaiah was teaching us(Christians of today what to be watchful of) To beware of the false prophets; Verse 9. Whom shell He “God” teach knowledge? “who is able to understand it” and whom shall He make to understand doctrine? Again whose knowledge, and whose doctrine? MAN'S NO. God's. God gives you the answer and a whole lot of people do not like it. But here it is (not the gospel of The Watchman) Them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breast.


Verse 10. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (The false teachers, prophets answer Isaiah mimicking the prophet as though he were teaching little children in a school This is not my work it is the notes by Dr. Bullinger)


God does not you to be taught by false prophets, teachers, pastors, etc. He does not want you get a verse here and there and then a good story about great grandma and she did things. God wants you to be trained up, to rightly divide the word of God.


There are 3 little verses in Acts that every christian should know by heart just like John 3:16.


Acts 17:10And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.


The Berean's were being taught by Paul and Silas two of the best of there time and there teaching is not out done today in my opinion. These Christians more noble than those at Thessalonica, they did not go home and put the Torah on the shelf till next week. No they found time to work, daily search (not just read a few verses no they got into the meat; they wanted off the milk and the breast.), and they found time to tell others and bring them to the saving grace of Christ. This is what we are to be learning and doing. This is what I was talking about. I hope that is what is going on at your church and that people's needs are being met.

 

[Live4Him3]

I do not understand this “Again, the actual context of this whole "precept upon precept" thing is that of certain Jews who sought justification via the law of Moses while falling backwards or stumbling over the stumbling stone of Christ, the very one whom Moses wrote about in the law.”

I was briefly reiterating what I said here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/cherry-pickers-anonymous.205846/page-6#post-4857987

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

but this isnt what people do when reading the Bible.

The entire Bible is scripture, it cannot be broken, its not DATA or RESEARCH.

Its Gods word.
It cant support an existing view or hypothesis, it just is what it is.

we are not performing science experiments and looking for a forgone conclusion on BDF. Its just people discussing the Bible, and sharing scripture that speaks to them.

Nothing wrong with that.

Amen.

2 Corinthians 2:14-17
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us reveals the fragrance of the knowledge of Him in every place. 15For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing: 16to the one an [d]aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things? 17For we are not like the many, [e]peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.

 

[Inquisitor]

IDK about Cherry Pickers Anonymous.
Maybe it ought to be called Heretickers Anonymous, lol!

Heretics are the concern of the Inquisitor.

 

[Edify]

Heretics are the concern of the Inquisitor.

Then you have a lot to be concerned about!

 

[GaryA]

The definition of cherry picking is more like taking a cherry from a Bing cherry tree and saying that it is a Queen Anne.

The definition of cherry picking is like plucking 25 cherries from a tree with 150 big ripe cherries hanging from it and then declaring that the tree has no more cherries on it.

 

[Mem]

The definition of cherry picking is like plucking 25 cherries from a tree with 150 big ripe cherries hanging from it and then declaring that the tree has no more cherries on it.

My dictionary says

cherry-pick
choose the best things or people from those available

So, if thats the definition, then how can there be anything wrong with cherry picking?

Cherry pick away! I would rather have cherries picked than someone pick my nose, brain or teeth.

It sounds a lot better than But Pickers Anonymous.

 

[Mem]

The definition of cherry picking is like plucking 25 cherries from a tree with 150 big ripe cherries hanging from it and then declaring that the tree has no more cherries on it.

Ok, if that's the official definition of cherry picking, then it can be reconciled with lanolin's definition as picking out the best cherries from those available (that support one's view, or are 'ripe') and leaving out all the others on the tree and declaring there aren't any more cherries on it (because they contradict one's view, or are not 'ripe') which would be a lie...

I still think it would be a much simpler by saying that it is claiming a bing cherry is a queen anne. Any way you put it, it is still trying to get by claiming that when it's really this. If this is that then they'd have the exact same characteristics, but if it only looks similar to that but it's really this, well then...

 

[Lanolin]

You either pick the ripe cherries to eat and then wait for those unripe to ripen

If anyones picking unriped cherries they probably just thinning the fruit, which is what some orchardists acrually do to get a bigger crop. By thinning, the tree will produce less fruit but it will. be bigger and juicier.

Look please dont malign the cherry pickers here. They are just doing their job of picking. They are not saying that any fruit left on the tree is not fruit ...you got to leave some for the birds.