Cherry Pickers Anonymous

[kaylagrl]

I have strawberries, blueberries and rasberries about 4 times a week with my morning cereal. I also have Naval oranges and Nanners too. I eat a lot of fruit it seems.

I love all of those. Hubby laughs cause we buy two bags of grapes and he knows they won't last a week. My sister says she thinks I'm part fruit fly. lol

 

[kaylagrl]

Hmmmm...

My normal, every day breakfast consists of 3 blueberry pancakes, a navel orange, a banana, a bowl of cereal, and either a strawberry, blueberry, or raspberry yogurt.

(He glances in the mirror to make sure that he's a bear and not an elephant)

P.S.

And sometimes a nice refreshing glass of lemonade.

Umm the blueberries tend to stay with you all day, it's a meal that keeps on giving.

 

[kaylagrl]

Hey - I'm happy if everyone is enjoying the food discussions, etc.

Who wouldn't rather talk about food?

The thread may as well be a cherry-pickin' food-fest...

(Better than a never-ending argument.)

Carry on...

That's a terrific attitude! I think we're on a roll, just know if it's orange or cinnamon.

 

[Jocund]

Given the New Testament is composed of say 26 letters. Half of these letters are small letters, give or take a few pages. The content of these letters is a simple text, addressed to mostly uneducated audiences. These are first century letters.

How is it even possible to end up with conflicting interpretations?

Language can be used to convey multiple layers of meanings and contexts, especially in the case of parables. There are also instances where some types of relativism exist in scripture; e.g. Can I eat pork? Maybe (cf. Rom 14). To me, scripture does appear to be very layered in meaning. There is both milk and meat weaved into the words. To some only the milk may be apparent, but even between meats, that which is for the eye is most apparent for an eye, and to a foot a foot, an ear an ear, etc.

A good example from literary history is the way that Shakespeare wrote plays. A commoner may not understand ever word of every character but they understand the story. Even educated people may understand some subjects being discussed, but not all of them (or may not notice all of the contexts being spoken through the words).

 

[Mem]

Yes...and I've been told walnut is good too.
The cooking process of first straining out the bugs then reducing the sap until its syrup is messy....it gets on everything worse than frying foods in your kitchen does. So do it outside.

In every survivor show where it's man vx nature these guys never go for a spiel...and they really should. It's easy and lots of calories. And necessary to keep weight on yourself. Otherwise it's a keto diet of nothing but meat and occasionally fat...and they constantly lose body weight and get weak.

I watch them complain about how they couldn't find any food while standing in a birch Grove. Literally surrounded by groceries but too dumb to eat any of it.

Yes...maple is famous but birch trees can provide syrup too.

I looked for birch syrup at the grocer today and found a label called 'birch benders' but it was just maple syrup. I guess it take 100 barrels of birch sap to make one barrel of syrup so, maple syrup will just have to do in my endeavor to grow more junk in my elephant trunk and more jelly in my bear belly.

 

[Jocund]

If we cannot agree on the definitions of things (e.g. - 'rapture'), how can we possibly have a productive conversation about whatever-topic?

If any of these things affect a person such that they cherry-pick the scriptures - something needs to be re-evaluated...

Methodology - how you go about it makes all the difference in the world...

Definitions are important. Agreed.
Defining Cherry-picking is important.

How would you define cherry-picking?

In my mind it is basically some combination of a person:
1) not knowing of the existence of a verse that contradicts their interpretation, or:
2) not understanding how to rationally compare verses to check for contradictions against an interpretation.

If you want to effectively address cherry-picking, you need to explore, identify, and then address the specific elements that are falling short (rather than trying to address the issue by a blanket statement in calling it "cherry-picking")

This all comes back to logical process, and the failure to recognize constraints on possible interpretations. People can either be unaware of the verse that would require the constraint on the system, or they are unaware of how a particular verse would cause the constraint in the first place. Math literacy is very important in resolving that. Not everyone is going to be math literate at the time of a conversation. The problem is inevitable. But, sometimes people can look back after many years have passed and realize what you have been trying to say to them. Sometimes we are really addressing the future person rather than the person we currently appear to be in a conversation with. In times of hard feelings we should all be mindful of that and have patience and forgiveness in our hearts for the transgressions that can happen.

Calling something a "cherry-pick" can carry a confrontational tone. And it can inevitably lead to insinuating that the other person is characteristically a "cherry-picker" which is a type of character assassination (an argument from ethos). There's a time and place for appealing to ethos, but from a strictly logical, detached, objective, and dispassionate approach, we should first try to address a topic from reason and logic (logos). Insinuating that someone is a cherry-picker is likely to encourage an emotional response (pathos) instead of sober reasoning (logos). If you want someone to come to a logical conclusion, appeal to their logical side. If someone's emotions are "wobbly" sometimes it is appropriate to push something from pathos. Sometimes people speak out through "logical" arguments to let people know that they are feeling something completely unrelated that they don't know how to express (something I wish I had understood better years ago).

The use of "cherry-picker"/"cherry-picking" to describe a logical shortcoming is unskillful if your intention was to appeal to someone's logos (logic). But, as an expression of frustration (emotion/pathos), that term can be useful for catharsis. I think feelings are overlooked sometimes. Frustration can get the better of us. And like holding onto a hot coal with the intention of throwing it at someone else, the holder of that coal is the one that get burnt. I think we can be the primary victim of our own frustrations. And as we lose patience with ourselves, it can reflect in the way we feel about others. We should remember to have patience and compassion for ourselves. You too deserve your own love and kindness.

 

[Thewatchman]

God never wrote the this love letter "the bible" to be read here a little and there a little. He wrote it not to just be read but to be studied.
God did not write this love letter “the bible” to be read here a little there a little. Tho be honest He did not write it to us to be a novel. He wrote it to be a road map for us to follow to make it through life living the way He intended for us, to follow Him, Love Him, and understand what has happened and learn from it; There is nothing under the sun. I have foretold you all things.

This may or may not help but it sure seams to be true today.



Isaiah 28

The Captivity of Ephraim

1Woe to the majestic crown of Ephraim’sa drunkards,

to the fading flower of his glorious splendor,

set on the summit above the fertile valley,

the pride of those overcome by wine.

2Behold, the Lord has one

who is strong and mighty.

Like a hailstorm or destructive tempest,

like a driving rain or flooding downpour,

he will smash that crown to the ground.

3The majestic crown of Ephraim’s drunkards

will be trampled underfoot.

4The fading flower of his beautiful splendor,

set on the summit above the fertile valley,

will be like a ripe fig before the summer harvest:

Whoever sees it will take it in his hand and swallow it.

5On that day the LORD of Hosts will be a crown of glory,

a diadem of splendor to the remnant of His people,

6a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment,

and a strength to those who repel the onslaught at the gate.

7These also stagger from wine

and stumble from strong drink:

Priests and prophets reel from strong drink

and are befuddled by wine.

They stumble because of strong drink,

muddled in their visions and stumbling in their judgments.

8For all their tables are covered with vomit;

there is not a place without filth.

9Whom is He trying to teach?

To whom is He explaining His message?

To infants just weaned from milk?

To babies removed from the breast?

10For they hear:b

“Order on order, order on order,

line on line, line on line;c

a little here, a little there.”

11Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues,

He will speak to this peopled 12to whom He has said:

“This is the place of rest, let the weary rest;

this is the place of repose.”

But they would not listen.

13Then the word of the LORD to them will become:

“Order on order, order on order,

line on line, line on line;

a little here, a little there,”

so that they will go stumbling backward

and will be injured, ensnared, and captured.

14Therefore hear the word of the LORD, O scoffers

who rule this people in Jerusalem.

15For you said, “We have made a covenant with death;

we have fashioned an agreement with Sheol.

When the overwhelming scourge passes through

it will not touch us,

because we have made lies our refuge

and falsehoode our hiding place.”

16So this is what the Lord GOD says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,

a tested stone,

a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;

the one who believes will never be shaken.f

17I will make justice the measuring line

and righteousness the level.

Hail will sweep away your refuge of lies,

and water will flood your hiding place.

18Your covenant with death will be dissolved,

and your agreement with Sheol will not stand.

When the overwhelming scourge passes through,

you will be trampled by it.

19As often as it passes through,

it will carry you away;

it will sweep through morning after morning,

by day and by night.”

The understanding of this message

will bring sheer terror.

20Indeed, the bed is too short to stretch out on,

and the blanket too small to wrap around you.

21For the LORD will rise up as at Mount Perazim.

He will rouse Himself as in the Valley of Gibeon,

to do His work, His strange work,

and to perform His task, His disturbing task.

22So now, do not mock,

or your shackles will become heavier.

Indeed, I have heard from the Lord GOD of Hosts

a decree of destruction against the whole land.

Listen and Hear

23Listen and hear my voice.

Pay attention and hear what I say.

24Does the plowman plow for planting every day?

Does he continuously loosen and harrow the soil?

25When he has leveled its surface,

does he not sow caraway and scatter cumin?

He plants wheat in rows and barley in plots,

and rye within its border.

26For his God instructs

and teaches him properly.

27Surely caraway is not threshed with a sledge,

and the wheel of a cart is not rolled over the cumin.

But caraway is beaten out with a stick,

and cumin with a rod.

28Grain for bread must be ground,

but it is not endlessly threshed.

Though the wheels of the cart roll over it,

the horses do not crush it.

29This also comes from the LORD of Hosts,

who is wonderful in counsel

and excellent in wisdom.

 

[Inquisitor]

Language can be used to convey multiple layers of meanings and contexts, especially in the case of parables. There are also instances where some types of relativism exist in scripture; e.g. Can I eat pork? Maybe (cf. Rom 14). To me, scripture does appear to be very layered in meaning. There is both milk and meat weaved into the words. To some only the milk may be apparent, but even between meats, that which is for the eye is most apparent for an eye, and to a foot a foot, an ear an ear, etc.

A good example from literary history is the way that Shakespeare wrote plays. A commoner may not understand ever word of every character but they understand the story. Even educated people may understand some subjects being discussed, but not all of them (or may not notice all of the contexts being spoken through the words).

The apostles struggled with most of the parables. I do not think that anyone these days, would have too much difficulty understanding the parables.

Can I eat pork? Maybe (cf. Rom 14).

If you have trouble with deciding what you should be eating as a Christian. Then God help us all.

 

[Inquisitor]

God never wrote the this love letter "the bible" to be read here a little and there a little. He wrote it not to just be read but to be studied.
God did not write this love letter “the bible” to be read here a little there a little. Tho be honest He did not write it to us to be a novel. He wrote it to be a road map for us to follow to make it through life living the way He intended for us, to follow Him, Love Him, and understand what has happened and learn from it; There is nothing under the sun. I have foretold you all things.

This may or may not help but it sure seams to be true today.



Isaiah 28

The Captivity of Ephraim

1Woe to the majestic crown of Ephraim’sa drunkards,

to the fading flower of his glorious splendor,

set on the summit above the fertile valley,

the pride of those overcome by wine.

2Behold, the Lord has one

who is strong and mighty.

Like a hailstorm or destructive tempest,

like a driving rain or flooding downpour,

he will smash that crown to the ground.

3The majestic crown of Ephraim’s drunkards

will be trampled underfoot.

4The fading flower of his beautiful splendor,

set on the summit above the fertile valley,

will be like a ripe fig before the summer harvest:

Whoever sees it will take it in his hand and swallow it.

5On that day the LORD of Hosts will be a crown of glory,

a diadem of splendor to the remnant of His people,

6a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment,

and a strength to those who repel the onslaught at the gate.

7These also stagger from wine

and stumble from strong drink:

Priests and prophets reel from strong drink

and are befuddled by wine.

They stumble because of strong drink,

muddled in their visions and stumbling in their judgments.

8For all their tables are covered with vomit;

there is not a place without filth.

9Whom is He trying to teach?

To whom is He explaining His message?

To infants just weaned from milk?

To babies removed from the breast?

10For they hear:b

“Order on order, order on order,

line on line, line on line;c

a little here, a little there.”

11Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues,

He will speak to this peopled 12to whom He has said:

“This is the place of rest, let the weary rest;

this is the place of repose.”

But they would not listen.

13Then the word of the LORD to them will become:

“Order on order, order on order,

line on line, line on line;

a little here, a little there,”

so that they will go stumbling backward

and will be injured, ensnared, and captured.

14Therefore hear the word of the LORD, O scoffers

who rule this people in Jerusalem.

15For you said, “We have made a covenant with death;

we have fashioned an agreement with Sheol.

When the overwhelming scourge passes through

it will not touch us,

because we have made lies our refuge

and falsehoode our hiding place.”

16So this is what the Lord GOD says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,

a tested stone,

a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;

the one who believes will never be shaken.f

17I will make justice the measuring line

and righteousness the level.

Hail will sweep away your refuge of lies,

and water will flood your hiding place.

18Your covenant with death will be dissolved,

and your agreement with Sheol will not stand.

When the overwhelming scourge passes through,

you will be trampled by it.

19As often as it passes through,

it will carry you away;

it will sweep through morning after morning,

by day and by night.”

The understanding of this message

will bring sheer terror.

20Indeed, the bed is too short to stretch out on,

and the blanket too small to wrap around you.

21For the LORD will rise up as at Mount Perazim.

He will rouse Himself as in the Valley of Gibeon,

to do His work, His strange work,

and to perform His task, His disturbing task.

22So now, do not mock,

or your shackles will become heavier.

Indeed, I have heard from the Lord GOD of Hosts

a decree of destruction against the whole land.

Listen and Hear

23Listen and hear my voice.

Pay attention and hear what I say.

24Does the plowman plow for planting every day?

Does he continuously loosen and harrow the soil?

25When he has leveled its surface,

does he not sow caraway and scatter cumin?

He plants wheat in rows and barley in plots,

and rye within its border.

26For his God instructs

and teaches him properly.

27Surely caraway is not threshed with a sledge,

and the wheel of a cart is not rolled over the cumin.

But caraway is beaten out with a stick,

and cumin with a rod.

28Grain for bread must be ground,

but it is not endlessly threshed.

Though the wheels of the cart roll over it,

the horses do not crush it.

29This also comes from the LORD of Hosts,

who is wonderful in counsel

and excellent in wisdom.

There was a messianic prophecy in there.

16So this is what the Lord GOD says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,

a tested stone,

a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;

the one who believes will never be shaken.

 

[Inquisitor]

Definitions are important. Agreed.
Defining Cherry-picking is important.

How would you define cherry-picking?

In my mind it is basically some combination of a person:
1) not knowing of the existence of a verse that contradicts their interpretation, or:
2) not understanding how to rationally compare verses to check for contradictions against an interpretation.

If you want to effectively address cherry-picking, you need to explore, identify, and then address the specific elements that are falling short (rather than trying to address the issue by a blanket statement in calling it "cherry-picking")

This all comes back to logical process, and the failure to recognize constraints on possible interpretations. People can either be unaware of the verse that would require the constraint on the system, or they are unaware of how a particular verse would cause the constraint in the first place. Math literacy is very important in resolving that. Not everyone is going to be math literate at the time of a conversation. The problem is inevitable. But, sometimes people can look back after many years have passed and realize what you have been trying to say to them. Sometimes we are really addressing the future person rather than the person we currently appear to be in a conversation with. In times of hard feelings we should all be mindful of that and have patience and forgiveness in our hearts for the transgressions that can happen.

Calling something a "cherry-pick" can carry a confrontational tone. And it can inevitably lead to insinuating that the other person is characteristically a "cherry-picker" which is a type of character assassination (an argument from ethos). There's a time and place for appealing to ethos, but from a strictly logical, detached, objective, and dispassionate approach, we should first try to address a topic from reason and logic (logos). Insinuating that someone is a cherry-picker is likely to encourage an emotional response (pathos) instead of sober reasoning (logos). If you want someone to come to a logical conclusion, appeal to their logical side. If someone's emotions are "wobbly" sometimes it is appropriate to push something from pathos. Sometimes people speak out through "logical" arguments to let people know that they are feeling something completely unrelated that they don't know how to express (something I wish I had understood better years ago).

The use of "cherry-picker"/"cherry-picking" to describe a logical shortcoming is unskillful if your intention was to appeal to someone's logos (logic). But, as an expression of frustration (emotion/pathos), that term can be useful for catharsis. I think feelings are overlooked sometimes. Frustration can get the better of us. And like holding onto a hot coal with the intention of throwing it at someone else, the holder of that coal is the one that get burnt. I think we can be the primary victim of our own frustrations. And as we lose patience with ourselves, it can reflect in the way we feel about others. We should remember to have patience and compassion for ourselves. You too deserve your own love and kindness.

I do not think that evaluating a verse taken out of context as a cherry-picked verse. Should be taken as some kind of insult. It's the faulty interpretation that the person has been taught that is the culprit.

If you realized that you relied on an interpretation that consisted of cherry-picked verses. You should be overjoyed that someone took the time to straighten you out. No one wants to stand before the Lord and discover they lived their Christian life. According to a corrupt reading of the scripture.

Seriously, it is better to be corrected than to walk on the wrong path altogether.

 

[Jocund]

The apostles struggled with most of the parables. I do not think that anyone these days, would have too much difficulty understanding the parables.

In other words, you are trying to say that you have a particular interpretation that resonates with you. And that's good so long as you realize that other people will come to different intuited conclusions based on the same principle that you are using. They aren't necessarily wrong, despite potentially having a different understanding than yourself.

If you have trouble with deciding what you should be eating as a Christian. Then God help us all.

Food is often used as a metaphor for teachings, customs, culture, behaviours, mannerisms, etc. (cf. Heb 5:12, 1 Cor 3:2). Regardless, Rom 14:14 is a good standalone verse explaining a kind of relativism.

I do not think that evaluating a verse taken out of context as a cherry-picked verse. Should be taken as some kind of insult. It's the faulty interpretation that the person has been taught that is the culprit.

I think it's the case sometimes that people don't realize that they are cherry-picking. The nature of a cherry-pick is that someone is interpreting a verse in such a way that is in contradiction to the meaning of the passage when taken in context with the rest of the text.

Reading the OT without NT context is an example of something that can be cherry-picking. E.g. Reading the seed promises in the OT without acknowledging Gal 3's statement about the seed being Christ is a form of cherry-picking.

I think if someone is intentionally cherry-picking and is fully aware of what they are doing, that's a different story. But that's hard to demonstrate. It's simpler to just assume they've made a mistake that they just don't understand.

If you realized that you relied on an interpretation that consisted of cherry-picked verses. You should be overjoyed that someone took the time to straighten you out. No one wants to stand before the Lord and discover they lived their Christian life. According to a corrupt reading of the scripture.

Seriously, it is better to be corrected than to walk on the wrong path altogether.

Well said. I agree. What you've said goes well with Prov 9:8-9.

 

[Beckie]

There was a messianic prophecy in there.

16So this is what the Lord GOD says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,

a tested stone,

a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;

the one who believes will never be shaken.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[p_rehbein]

I love all of those. Hubby laughs cause we buy two bags of grapes and he knows they won't last a week. My sister says she thinks I'm part fruit fly. lol

I love grapes, but had to stop eating them. They are very high in sugar and bad for my diabetes.......sigh.......I miss them

 

[Mem]

I love grapes, but had to stop eating them. They are very high in sugar and bad for my diabetes.......sigh.......I miss them

It is rumored that chewing on grape skins helps to keep the covid at bay. Though it would seem rather tedious to peel grapes. However, if there is any truth in the theory that the remedy for our maladies can be found in food that resemble the organ they would benefit, grapes do have an uncanny resemblance to lungs, especially the 'air bags'?, the capillaries? (is it cilia?) in the lungs. So, there might be something to that.

 

[JohnDB]

I looked for birch syrup at the grocer today and found a label called 'birch benders' but it was just maple syrup. I guess it take 100 barrels of birch sap to make one barrel of syrup so, maple syrup will just have to do in my endeavor to grow more junk in my elephant trunk and more jelly in my bear belly.

If you have Birch trees and a spiel....
You can make some this fall.
In the fall when the weather begins dancing 20+ more degrees starting at the freezing point...the sap is running through the trunk of the tree which is when the collection of maple and Birch sap can be had.

I will warn you that it takes a LOT of work to make $100 worth of syrup.

If you are Amish....$100 cash money is very valuable...more than most things. (Taxes, medicines and etc are always a struggle for them)

Usually syrup like that is women's work...guys usually spend their time doing other things.

 

[Lanolin]

why is it womans work
I dont spend my time extracting xylitol...dont even know any woman that does

cherries are mostly picked by machines now if humans want to eat them. Its done by a hydraulic shaker.

 

[Lanolin]

Not sure if anyone shakes their Bible and verses just fall out. That would only happen if their bIble wasn't bound properly.

The foolproof method of reading the Bible to get verses pertaining to your situation is to

Pray and ask God
He tells you the reference
You look it up

 

[GaryA]

I love grapes, but had to stop eating them. They are very high in sugar and bad for my diabetes.......sigh.......I miss them

For what it may be worth - check out this guy's videos - he has a lot to say about diabetes - cause and cure...

 

[hornetguy]

Now, unless I'm living on a completely different planet than the rest of you, I have to believe that at least one of you has heard this portion of scripture interpreted/used in this manner, and some of you may have interpreted it or used it in exactly this manner yourselves

Nope.... never heard it quoted, either in or out of "context"..

 

[hornetguy]

If you have trouble with deciding what you should be eating as a Christian. Then God help us all.

I'm pretty sure Paul would disagree with that.... just sayin....