Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[FreeGrace2]

Question to OSAS believers: was Simon Magus OSAS when he believed and was baptized:

If you are asking if he believed in eternal security or not, the Bible doesn't say.

What the Bible does say is that "Simon himself believed and was baptized". The Bible also says that those who believe possess eternal life, in John 5:24.

So, it should be clear to everyone that Simon WAS saved when he believed.

Acts 8:9-25

Simon the Sorcerer
9 Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10 and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” 11 They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. 12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”

25 After they had further proclaimed the word of the Lord and testified about Jesus, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages."

V.13 is very clear about Simon. He was saved. And was given eternal life, and according to Jesus, he will never perish. John 10:28

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Thanks for the response, but verse 20 shows the Holy Spirit disagrees. Speaking through Apostle Peter, He said to Simon Magus: "20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

 

[Chester]

I do. Why? Because who ever heard of being reverted from Spiritually Circumcised to unCircumcised? Or, do we not understand this core doctrine of the Bible?

If you want to believe in OSAS, you may, that is your prerogative. It is your arguments that make no sense to me?

First, "who ever heard of being reverted from spiritually circumcised to uncircumcised"? That is a rhetorical question that carries no weight of evidence of anything at all. One could turn it around and the following would be just as foolish: Who ever heard of being changed from spiritually uncircumcised to circumcised?

Second, "do we not understand this core doctrine of the Bible"? It is a bit unclear what core doctrine you are referring to. If you mean the core doctrine of not being able to go from spiritually circumcised to uncircumcised: I don't think that is even found in the Bible.
If you mean the "core doctrine" of Once saved always saved, you can find that doctrine in a lot of denominations' doctrinal statements, but no Scripture that I know of says that. If you mean the "core doctrine" of salvation is by grace through faith, then that is found very clearly in Scripture. (But I don't know what salvation by grace through faith has to do with OSAS?)

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It is your arguments that make no sense to me?

It is True. Only the Remnant is allowed to understand the Doctrine of Spiritual Circumcision.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thanks for the response, but verse 20 shows the Holy Spirit disagrees. Speaking through Apostle Peter, He said to Simon Magus: "20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

There is no reason to equate being "full of bitterness and captive to sin" with being an unbeliever.

The Bible very plainly said that "Simon himself believed and was baptized". If Simon wasn't saved, that would NOT have been in the text.

We should not try to second guess the Bible. When it says something, it means it.

The problem is that so many believers have an incorrect understanding about salvation. They think a "true" believer won't sin, or won't sin very much. Believers can commit the same sins as unbelievers. Which is why believers are commanded to be holy and blameless, because it isn't automatic nor guaranteed.

Why did Paul command believers to be "filled with the Spirit"? Because he also commanded believers to STOP grieving (Eph 4:30) and quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit. These are the oppositve of being filled with the Spirit.

The Christian life is a very dynamic life. That means Romans 6:16 applies to believers, and Paul WAS addressing believers when he wrote the epistle to the Roman church.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you want to believe in OSAS, you may, that is your prerogative. It is your arguments that make no sense to me?

How is this for making total sense for eternal security:

John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Clear enough?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Chester said:
It is your arguments that make no sense to me?

It is True. Only the Remnant is allowed to understand the Doctrine of Spiritual Circumcision.

That makes sense. Calvinists see themselves as the "frozen chosen" or "select elect", or the spiritual elites among believers, understanding what the underlings just can't grasp.

Just like the Jews of the OT. They misunderstood God's election of them as being superior to other nations. When election is only about being chosen for service. Even Judas an unbeliever was chosen by Jesus. John 6:70.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

There is no reason to equate being "full of bitterness and captive to sin" with being an unbeliever.

Hi Free Grace.

Well, it strongly suggests Simon Magus sinned unto death shortly after his justification. "full of bitterness and captive to sin" indicates he was not saved.

The Bible very plainly said that "Simon himself believed and was baptized". If Simon wasn't saved, that would NOT have been in the text.

And yet Peter says "May your money perish with you". If Peter had believed in OSAS, he would never have said to Simon Magus.

God Bless.
In Christ,
Xavier.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

That makes sense.

Thanks!

 

[Chester]

How is this for making total sense for eternal security:

John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Clear enough?

John 10:28 is very clear enough: a wonderful promise: PTL!

John 10:27,28: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!

 

[Chester]

It is True. Only the Remnant is allowed to understand the Doctrine of Spiritual Circumcision.

Oh, I see - so this "remnant" has understandings outside of what the Scriptures actually say!? Well, then, no use debating the Bible with such a group?!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Oh, I see - so this "remnant" has understandings outside of what the Scriptures actually say!? Well, then, no use debating the Bible with such a group?!

Sort of. People who have not been enabled cannot understand what is plainly written. And this is why once I sense that a person has not been awakened to God's Word, I'd rather just walk away (when the belittling and anger ensues).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

John 12:40 NLT - 40 "The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts--so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them."

Your Bibles should say the same things as mine.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

And since you are questioning the term "remnant," your Bible describes True Israel in this way. Confirm through the below passage with your translations of choice:

2 Kings 19:31 NET - "For a remnant will leave Jerusalem; survivors will come out of Mount Zion. The intense devotion of the sovereign LORD to his people will accomplish this."

The Remnant [is] the True Vine of Christ. Same thing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hi Free Grace.

Hello to you, XavierJesusLovesIndia!

Well, it strongly suggests Simon Magus sinned unto death shortly after his justification.

There is no mention of him dying. Rather, we read about Peter telling him about his mental condition. Not his "unsaved" condition.

"full of bitterness and captive to sin" indicates he was not saved.

No, it does not. It indicated Simon's attitude. Haven't you ever met believers who were full of bitterness, etc?

And yet Peter says "May your money perish with you". If Peter had believed in OSAS, he would never have said to Simon Magus.

Peter understood divine discipline, which can include physical death. Our souls do not perish. It is our bodies that perish. That is what Peter was referring to.

1 Cor 11:30 tells us about God's divine discipline in summary: weakness, sickness and physical death. Notice the progression.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 10:28 is very clear enough: a wonderful promise: PTL!

John 10:27,28: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!

This is twisting the Word. Please don't do that.

There is NOTHING in v.27 that results in your false understanding of v.28. You are trying to force v.27 to be a condition for getting eteranl life.

Yet, read John3:15,16 and 5:24. All of them say plainly that those who believe possess eternal life.

So when Jesus said "I give THEM" He was speaking about believers.

v.27 is very clearly a description of what His sheep DO, or even OUGHT TO DO. There are no words that create a condition for never perishing in v.28.

The promise of v.28 is to those who have believed. They receive eternal life.

Your view is a works based salvation, which is parallel to what the Pharisees believed.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

This is twisting the Word. Please don't do that.

There is NOTHING in v.27 that results in your false understanding of v.28. You are trying to force v.27 to be a condition for getting eteranl life.

Yet, read John3:15,16 and 5:24. All of them say plainly that those who believe possess eternal life.

So when Jesus said "I give THEM" He was speaking about believers.

v.27 is very clearly a description of what His sheep DO, or even OUGHT TO DO. There are no words that create a condition for never perishing in v.28.

The promise of v.28 is to those who have believed. They receive eternal life.

Your view is a works based salvation, which is parallel to what the Pharisees believed.

Perplexing.

 

[Chester]

This is twisting the Word. Please don't do that.

There is NOTHING in v.27 that results in your false understanding of v.28. You are trying to force v.27 to be a condition for getting eteranl life.

Yet, read John3:15,16 and 5:24. All of them say plainly that those who believe possess eternal life.

So when Jesus said "I give THEM" He was speaking about believers.

v.27 is very clearly a description of what His sheep DO, or even OUGHT TO DO. There are no words that create a condition for never perishing in v.28.

The promise of v.28 is to those who have believed. They receive eternal life.

Your view is a works based salvation, which is parallel to what the Pharisees believed.

I said "The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish!"
I do not think this statement makes any "condition" - I think it is just stating clearly what the text says.

Do you not agree that The sheep who hear Christ's voice and follow him are given eternal life and they shall never perish! ??

 

[Magenta]

By surrounding the poster's remarks with the quote box and /quote box, there is no link back.

The link is in the very first quote box. Nothing more is required.

 

[Grandpa]

FreeGrace2 said:
Let's get to the point here.

Show me where the Bible differentiates between sufficient and efficacious if you can. That should suffice.

And all these verses show that everyone can be saved. That PROVES that He died for everyone. As many verses plainly SAY.


The point is that salvation is by faith in Christ.

Why do you fight the FACT that Jesus Christ died for everyone?

Why do you fight so hard to place YOUR WISHES above what scripture says?

Only those who believe receive the blessings of Christ.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How do you read this over and over and still not get it???

And yet you state you do understand the difference between sufficient and efficacious. I really don't think you do.