IF 'THE DEAD' don't rise then who do we rule and reign over?
- Thread starter kleronomos
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seeing that Christ is the Creator of time & as such He isn't bound within it, i think this only means we don't yet see all things under Him, not that all things are not actually under Him.
- all authority in heaven and on earth are His ((Matthew 28:18))
- He is above all ((John 3:31))
- all things in heaven and on earth by Him, through Him, for Him, and held together by Him ((Colossians 1:17))
Yes, those are some of the verses that began me on this present dig. And the areas you highlighted were some of my focus at one time also.
THEN I was drawn to what was written right above it, and 'saw' a very intense and enlightening truth. And it wasn't written in some obscure manner. There weren't any hard words. Not only was it straight forth it was all encompassing and couldn't be taken in any other way.
17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Christ has returned, IT IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE AND the only flesh that will be saved IS THE ELECT and their flesh is also changed.
[21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
First He lists all flesh in descending order from KINGs down to slaves and just to make sure, even horses and men. Then repeats it in a different t way, FLESH OF ALL MEN, and again an all encompassing way, from the small to the great. AND if that didn't GET THE ATTENTION that He was talking ALL FLESH
He made sure to say IF THERE IS ANY REMNANT LEFT OVER I got them too!!!
Me, having 'no doctrines' I read and believe this exactly as it is written. I don't make any excuse, I don't NEED any excuse at all, I don't need to twist any part of it to make it say something else, because I DON'T NEED to for my beliefs to stand solid.
ALL FLESH from KINGS down to slaves and ALL IN BETWEEN, and ANY REMNANT will be slain.
That's pretty much every one
THAT LEAVES no flesh, at least no flesh 'bodies made of the dust of the earth'
add to that that
ALL THE ALIVE And REMAINING will be changed and HOW MUCH MORE is needed to BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN?
Consider other verses and events and when it is all added up, it paints a pretty clear picture. We know angels and man don't mix well at all, as they liked each other so much only ONE mans family had a perfect generation and that didn't end well at all. That's ONE really good argument against angels and humans living together again.
THEN there is the 1000 years. THAT would require NEW LAWS to come into play for the human body and since God already has us covered with the spiritual body, what would be the point? Also, it gets rid of ALL excuses for being 'unrighteous' when no one can blame anything on physical or mental or emotional aliments that come from a human body. This way the 2nd death will be nothing but TOTALLY JUST TO EVERYONE.
Anyway those are a few of the paths I have been down. And so I thought I would ask the question.
Thank you for the reply. I do appreciate your time.
I have no idea what that verse means, but I don't think it is literal simply because having a 30 year old still on a bottle would not be heaven at all. Talk about it's your turn to change the diaper...only stand to reason if a '100 year old' was a child? Would a 'child' also be the accursed sinner?
So since I can not understand this verse and there are so many that are NOT hard for me to understand and are extremely clear, I hope and pray God will understand.
And with Satan is bound and sealed, how would that 'death' thing work any how?
If you could, please tell me where else it is spoken of, and I will go and check it out.
BETTER FOR ME TO BE WRONG NOW while I can still get it worked out, rather than when it is too late and I end up being a vessel of wood to dishonor.
Yes, Yes, Yes, and He is sitting and watching and we are FOLLOWING GODS PLAN yet Gods plan HAS THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY working on earth right now and Jesus is sitting at His right until enemies made footstool
Why does this resorting BACK TO OVERALL POWER OF GOD SMACK dab in the middle of a conversation keep happening? I am going to start adding this DISCLAIMER to everything I write just so it will quit being BROUGHT UP LIKE it is some NEW REVELATION that needs to be shared right NOW, like it isn't something everyone already knows and has since before they were saved.
Does GOD BEING IN CHARGE SOME HOW mean THERE IS NO PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR? Is there no plan of God taking place? Exactly WHAT is the point? and WHAT does it have to do with the dead rising and who will we reign over?
I'm looking for a big thick juicy steak and you bring puree.
BUT OK, SO, yes and to be sure we all know and understand that this is all GODS CREATION and HE is in charge of everything always was and always will be and HE is only allowing the things to happen that are happening and could at any time end it all.
not that that has ANYTHING to do with the conversation at hand
Do you believe there isn't a specific plan with specific details being carried out?
DO you truly believe the influence on the world right now IS of CHRIST?
DO YOU believe all the LIES AND DECEPTION AND MURDERS/ABORTIONS
AND THE KILLING OF CHRISTIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE CHRISTIANS
are taking place under the rule and REIGN of Christ?
That this is life under the REIGN OF CHRIST WITH A ROD OF IRON?
PLEASE tell me I have completely misunderstood you
death isn't destroyed until the great white throne judgement, after Satan is released, after 1,000 years, after he goes and gathers all the nations to fight against God, surrounding Jerusalem, and after God destroys them all with fire from heaven. ((Revelation 20))
the last enemy to be destroyed is death
why are all the nations who have seen God on His throne for 1,000 years willing to go fight against God?
because people can be evil and do evil all by themselves without the devil making them do it, or Satan deceiving them.
see Adam for example, who was not deceived, yet still sinned. the millineum proves this, because Satan is imprisoned, deceiving no one, but there are still sinners and people who reject God even while He sits enthroned reigning over the earth.
Those verses don't undo what is stated in Revelation 20:4-6, at least I don't think so. The Matthew 27 passage certainly is a resurrection, but that isn't the general resurrection nor is it clearly explained who they were, why they were resurrected, and where they went after that. One may be forced to conclude they become immortal and are walking the earth somewhere in the present day?
Luke 20:36
36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
To understand your thought.....needed is Scripture depicting members of the body of Christ as rulers.
Post specific scriptures......."what is written".
Aren't you saying.....with Christ as He rules?
Nope.
IN CONTEXT, what you've cited is merely a description of the different ranks or classes of people who will be a part of the antichrist's army at the battle of Armageddon.
Revelation chapter 19
[17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
THIS SPECIFIC ARMY OF PEOPLE, under the rulership of the antichrist, will be composed of "kings", "captains", "mighty men", "horses, and of them that sit on them", "and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great" (vs. 19). When John mentioned "the remnant" (vs. 21), he was simply differentiating between "the beast" and "the false prophet" who "were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (vs. 20) and the other individuals who were a part of "their armies" (vs. 19).
Again, here is what Daniel prophesied:
Daniel chapter 7
[11] I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
[12] As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
In verse 11, we see that "the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame", and this perfectly coincides with what we just read in Revelation 19:20.
In verse 12, we see that "as concerning the rest of the beasts" or the rest of the kingdoms, "they had their dominion taken away: YET THEIR LIVES WERE PROLONGED FOR A SEASON AND TIME", and this perfectly coincides with what John continued on to say in the very next verses after what you selectively quoted from Revelation chapter 19.
We read:
Revelation chapter 20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
At Christ's second coming, he will first defeat the antichrist, the false prophet, and their armies which have been gathered against him at the battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:11-21) as he returns not only with his saints who were in heaven, but also with those saints who were yet alive and remained unto the coming of the Lord, and who will be caught up to meet the Lord in his descent from heaven at "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5-6). "The FIRST resurrection". No phony-baloney "pre-tribulation rapture" or "mid-tribulation rapture" before this.
At this same time, Christ will bind Satan and shut him up in the bottomless pit for 1000 thousand years (Rev. 20:1-3) so "that he should deceive THE NATIONS no more" (Rev. 20:3). "THE NATIONS". Got it? These "nations" are the same exact "rest of the beasts" or rest of the kingdoms who "had their dominion taken away: YET THEIR LIVES WERE PROLONGED FOR A SEASON AND A TIME" (Dan. 7:12), and this "season and a time" will be 1000 years or for the duration of Christ's Millennial Reign upon "the earth" (Rev. 20:8-9) with his resurrected saints. Yes, his saints "shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years" (Rev. 20:6) "ON THE EARTH".
Revelation chapter 5
[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
"When the thousand years are expired" or after Christ's Millennial Reign with his resurrected saints right here "ON THE EARTH" (Rev. 5:10), "Satan will be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive THE NATIONS", which, again, are the "rest of the beasts" of Daniel 7:12, "which are IN THE FOUR QUARTERS OF THE EARTH, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: THE NUMBER OF WHOM IS AS THE SAND OF THE SEA" (Rev. 20:7-8).
Having been gathered at the end of Christ's Millennial Reign with his resurrected saints right here "ON THE EARTH" (Rev. 5:10), "they WENT UP ON THE BREADTH OF THE EARTH, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city; and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them" (Rev. 20:9).
Of course, if we were to keep on reading, then we would see that these people and all the wicked dead shall ultimately be resurrected at the end of Christ's Millennial Reign to face the great white throne judgment.
With such being the case, you simply don't know what you're talking about, and you should therefore recant and start believing and teaching the actual truth of God's word.
Well that scripture refers to Saints who live through the end times to see the return of Jesus.. They will be transformed into eternal perfect beings and rule with Jesus.. They will not be the unsaved flesh people who will survive the end times destruction..
Nope there will be normal flesh human beings who will die during the 1000 years.. The rule of Jesus is revealed in the OT as well as the NT..
Zechariah 14 talks about the return of Jesus and what will be happening in the 1000 year reign.. Have a read..
Zechariah 14
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
If they do not come up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles they will suffer a plague and be SMITED / killed.. They will suffer from plague and be killed because they will be living flesh beings..
TIME of problem - DURING the Millennium
SO, When the angel descends, key in hand to the abyss, with the GREAT CHAIN and seizes Satan and BINDS him and CASTS him into the abyss for the 1000 years
12. abussos ►
Strong's Concordance
abussos: boundless, bottomless
Original Word: ἄβυσσος, ου, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: abussos
Phonetic Spelling: (ab'-us-sos)
Definition: boundless, bottomless
Usage: the abyss, unfathomable depth, an especially Jewish conception, the home of the dead and of evil spirits.
shutting him in
2808. kleió ►
Strong's Concordance
kleió: to shut
Original Word: κλείω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kleió
Phonetic Spelling: (kli'-o)
Definition: to shut
Usage: I shut, shut up.
and SEALING it
4972. sphragizó ►
Strong's Concordance
sphragizó: to seal
Original Word: σφραγίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sphragizó
Phonetic Spelling: (sfrag-id'-zo)
Definition: to seal
Usage: I seal, set a seal upon.
HELPS Word-studies
4972 sphragízō (from 4973 /sphragís, "a seal") – properly, to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal), i.e. to attest ownership, authorizing (validating) what is sealed.
4972 /sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.
[Sealing was sometimes done in antiquity by the use of religious tattoos – again signifying "belonging to."]
ABOVE him
1883. epanó ►
Strong's Concordance
epanó: above, more than
Original Word: ἐπάνω
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: epanó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-an'-o)
Definition: above, more than
Usage: (a) adv: on the top, above, (b) prep: on the top of, above, over, on, above, more than, superior to.
UNTIL WERE COMPLETED THE 1000 YEARS
During THAT TIME, how do you think DEATH would be worked out?
ME, I COULDN'T work it out. Try and try and try and KEPT coming up with MY OWN THOUGHTS and solutions BUT NO WORDS OF GOD TO BACK THEM UP.
So started over with HIS WORDS AND FOUND WHAT THEY SAID and I am going with that. NO matter how many thousands of years something is thought to have been taught or if it is accepted by all the churches that will fall away soon....
It is written we have 2 Bodies. We will bear the heavenly as we now do this earthy. Heaven is coming to earth. WHAT A PERFECT SOLUTION. A verse saved
With that there are no problems or worries about 'the dead' who were resurrected DYING AT MANS HANDS TWICE. Another verse saved from the traditions of man
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Already covered the whole world taking the mark of the beast dying and only flesh saved will be changed. ALL FLESH GONE.
So here are some of the problems with 'humans' during the SPIRITUAL RETURN OF JESUS AND THE ANGELS/saints for the millennium reign on earth as read in
Flesh making it through the flaming fire (aren't even the rudiments burned up at this return?) Or the changing of THE REALM. (flesh and blood can't inherit....) Another verse saved
Angels and men living together - AGAIN, THEM GIANTS were a really big problem
Flesh rising from the dust TWICE - 3 deaths not 2 - A man is killed, resurrected, then killed again in millennium?
Where does he go? Where does the JUST man go? Where does the unjust man go? and when are they resurrected AGAIN?
Would a JUST MAN being murdered go with the wicked in death hell and the sea till they are given up?
Flesh lasting 1000 years - ONLY A SEED of the flesh has anything to do with the resurrection, the rest goes back to dust. Unless you have some verses stating 'flesh resurrects', but I've never seen it (DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T written, right there in plain sight for all to see but me, THAT IS FOR SURE)
Sickness, comas, paralysis, mental and emotional diseases. All could and would be used as EXTENUATING circumstances.
JUDGMENT on SPIRITUAL BODIES for the SPIRITUAL ETERNITY vs Judgment on FLESH bodies for the SPIRITUAL ETERNITY?
Flesh comes by FAITH, not sight. How would it be JUST for a FLESH body that not only 'sees' but is living with the Lord to be judged the same as those who did?
You know what I found solved ALL OF THOSE PROBLEMS without changing anything but what I believed at the time? BELIEVING WHAT is WRITTEN as IT is WRITTEN. WHO KNEW?
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
WHY I also believe those having been SAVED are NOT amongst the dead waiting to be resurrected.
DECAY DOESN'T INHERIT IMMORTALITY
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
REMEMBER all the flesh of men from kings to slaves small and great AND THE REMNANT too. NOT EVERYONE WILL DIE....
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Again, the dead aren't raised IMMORTAL, they are raised IMPERISHABLE
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
WHEN DOES THIS BECOME TRUTH?
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
SHOULD MAN BE FEARING MAN DURING THE MILLENNIUM? or Should they be fearing judgment?
Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Maybe it hasn't happened to you enough times to 'get it' yet, but one day you will. EVERYTHING is found within those words that we need, WE JUST CAN'T SEE IT. Not UNTIL it is REVEALED by the Holy Spirit. And some things will never be revealed UNTIL we have done it HIS WAY at least that is my TRUE experience.
Can you find a different THEY?
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: AND I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
AS FOR the other thing, Maybe this will help
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isaiah 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
MARTHA LIVING UNDER THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
HOW MANY PEOPLE 'ASSIGN' A VALUE TO THAT 'LAST DAY' THAT ISN'T GIVEN HERE? There are many last days. And the LAST DAY here is the LAST DAY OF THE OLD TESTAMENT LAWS and the first day of the New Covenant.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Look up the word 'appeared'. It was done FOR SHOW as PROOF that Jesus HAD broken the bondage of death... WELL, if you were SAVED that is.
Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
I am doing my part.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
EVERYONE SINCE HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION ARE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT. While it is TRUE the resurrection of the dead BELIEVERS UNDER THE OLD COVENANT LAW IS PAST,
WE, under the NEW COVENANT,
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?
I'M LIVING.
AND I BELIEVE.
AND I BELIEVE I SHALL NEVER DIE.
SO I CAN'T BE RAISED UP AMONGST 'THE DEAD' as I will never be a part of the dead so the dead that are raised up have not been saved or else they would not be DEAD.
the difference between 'the dead' OT and 'the dead' NT and answer to your question I hope
Yea, I just did that.
See answer to runningman
but in short
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
I don't always understand the question, so if this isn't the answer you were seeking, please write it again and I will try again
ANYWAYS,
You see it as only the army, I see it as the whole world. Is there something else we differ on? Reading your post I thought I could have written it so I think I am missing the problem. I just thought I would address this till you let me know
.
back in GENESIS
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
6635. tsaba ►
Strong's Concordance
tsaba: army, war, warfare
Original Word: צָבָא
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: tsaba
Phonetic Spelling: (tsaw-baw')
Definition: army, war, warfare
appointed time, army, battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon,
Or (feminine) tsbadah {tseb-aw-aw'}; from tsaba'; a mass of persons (or figuratively, things), especially reg. Organized for war (an army); by implication, a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically, hardship, worship) -- appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war(-fare).
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
And that is what it is all about. Pick a side
AS FOR
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
(Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever)
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
does this next verse somehow negate all that was just written above? does what Satan is doing have a LIMITING effect on the LORDS ACTIONS? I've never read that.
Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
But is it JUST SATANS armies around Jerusalem CHRIST is coming to deal with? Never read that either.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
2Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Don't know what I wrote that would make you think I believe in A "phony-baloney "pre-tribulation rapture" or "mid-tribulation rapture" before this"
BUT I DON'T. NEVER HAVE. NEVER WILL.
THE FIRST RESURRECTION you ALREADY mentioned when you said "as he returns not only with his saints who were in heaven," THOSE ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION. Those who DIE while SAVED with those who were 'dead' when He descended and they heard the good news and resurrected with Him when He ascended AND the alive and remaining who are changed.
NOTICE THERE IS NO 'RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD' joined in with this group. Those of the first resurrection won't see death (NT ones the beheaded and alive and remaining yes some flesh die other transformed but NONE GO to be with the dead)
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
the just and un just RESURRECTION, LIVED NOT aka MADE IMMORTAL GOD GIFT
2198. zaó ►
Strong's Concordance
zaó: to live
Original Word: ζάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: zaó
Phonetic Spelling: (dzah'-o)
Definition: to live
Usage: I live, am alive.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2198 záō – to live, experience God's gift of life. See 2222 (zōē).
lifetime, alive, lively.
A primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively) -- life(-time), (a-)live(-ly), quick.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There will be no 'earth flesh' people to survive the end times destruction. Earth people can't even survive a car crash. They die FROM FRIGHT itself. No, if HE IS TAKING down Satan and 7000 of his angels at that time, earth flesh isn't going to fair well at all.
death and resurrection. Instead of alive and changed, they die and resurrect.
THE DEAD are resurrected. Just not into earth flesh bodies. Still souls and still walking around in bodies and STILL SPIRITUALLY DEAD. SOME of those of the NATIONS resurrect, while SOME don't until the GWTJ. BECAUSE some souls are wicked and some are just ignorant or deceived.
You didn't write anything that would make me believe that. This is a public forum, and therefore there will be others who will follow along with this conversation. Whether you're presently aware of it or not, there are plenty of people on this website, and millions off of this website, who believe in the "pre-tribulation" and "mid-tribulation" rapture heresies. With such being the case, I wrote that in case any of them might possibly read what I wrote.
What in the world are you talking about?
What is a "resurrection" if not a "resurrection of the dead"?
This is what transpires at Christ's second coming:
I Thessalonians chapter 4
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
The Christians "which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent" or PRECEDE (which is what this Old English word means) "them which are asleep" (vs. 15) or "the dead in Christ" who "shall rise first" (vs. 16). This first rising is a resurrection from the dead, so, again, what in the world are you talking about when you say "Notice there is no "resurrection of the dead" tied in with this group"?
Yes, there most certainly is, so, again, you don't know what you're talking about.
Again, what in the world are you talking about?
There's no "unjust resurrection" mentioned at all in Revelation 20:4.
Here are the verses, IN CONTEXT:
Revelation chapter 20
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Those who "lived AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST a thousand years" (Rev. 20:4) are those who "shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years" (Rev. 20:6).
If you honestly believe that this is referring to unjust people who were resurrected, then you're out of your mind.
The unjust are all resurrected at the end of Christ's Millennial Reign (Rev. 20:5, 12-15).
Seriously, just repent of this foolishness and embrace the actual truth of scripture.
Btw, don't think that I haven't noticed that you've skirted around Daniel 7:12 because I have.
"As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time." (Daniel 7:12)
Seriously, just repent.