IF 'THE DEAD' don't rise then who do we rule and reign over?

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K

kleronomos

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Dec 15, 2021
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#1
We are not going to rule and reign over each other but we will rule and reign over THE DEAD who have been resurrected. For 1000 years, those resurrected when Christ returns HAVE NOT yet BEEN JUDGED. AND there WONT BE another judgment day FOR 1000 YEARS.


Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


AND ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN JUDGED SOME TO EVERLASTING LIFE SOME TO 2ND DEATH

THEN

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


NOTICE WHO ISN'T JUDGED AT THE GWTJ? THOSE WHO WERE JUDGED on their last day when they went to be where CHRIST IS, in heaven, at the right hand of God, who will be returning with Him, to rule and reign OVER THE DEAD. (just and unjust until they are judged)

Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Luke 9:57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.



SPIRITUALLY DEAD. DIED UNSAVED. RESURRECTED UNSAVED. NOT TESTED. NOT PROVED. NOT DISCIPLINED. DIDN'T HAVE THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND THE PROPHETS so didn't understand, didn't come to knowledge. Will remain spiritually dead until judgment and only then will their name either be found in the book of life or it wont.


Don't agree? Please share what is written that CONFLICTS, or what is written that is made void.
 
Beckie

Beckie

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#2
Feb 15, 2022
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#2
The desire to rule others is just plain ugly.
 
A

Amanuensis

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#4
Jun 12, 2021
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That's just weird. So these people who are wicked get a reprieve from hell to live in the kingdom of God for 1000 years? I don't think so.

Those who are found worthy to enter into the kingdom are not going to be tasked with herding zombies. Come on man!!!

 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

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#5
Sep 17, 2018
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#5
kleronomos said:
WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD THINKS OF THAT?
Click to expand...
You're not God, Mr All Red, Bold Caps. 😂
It's quite obvious that she was referencing people ruling over other people. Creation over creation, not Creator over creation.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#6
Mar 4, 2020
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#6
kleronomos said:
We are not going to rule and reign over each other but we will rule and reign over THE DEAD who have been resurrected. For 1000 years, those resurrected when Christ returns HAVE NOT yet BEEN JUDGED. AND there WONT BE another judgment day FOR 1000 YEARS.


Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


AND ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN JUDGED SOME TO EVERLASTING LIFE SOME TO 2ND DEATH

THEN

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


NOTICE WHO ISN'T JUDGED AT THE GWTJ? THOSE WHO WERE JUDGED on their last day when they went to be where CHRIST IS, in heaven, at the right hand of God, who will be returning with Him, to rule and reign OVER THE DEAD. (just and unjust until they are judged)

Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Luke 9:57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.



SPIRITUALLY DEAD. DIED UNSAVED. RESURRECTED UNSAVED. NOT TESTED. NOT PROVED. NOT DISCIPLINED. DIDN'T HAVE THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND THE PROPHETS so didn't understand, didn't come to knowledge. Will remain spiritually dead until judgment and only then will their name either be found in the book of life or it wont.


Don't agree? Please share what is written that CONFLICTS, or what is written that is made void.
Click to expand...
Revelation 20:4-6
4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

The first resurrection is divided into at least two groups according to Revelation 20:4-6.

The first group in the first resurrection are those who “had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands” and they (those who were beheaded) came to life and reigned with Christ for 1,000 years. No other saints came to life except for those martyred in the great tribulation. This is a kind of bonus resurrection for the millennial kingdom.

The rest of the dead (the dead in Christ) did not come to life until after the 1,000 years were complete. That’s the entire first resurrection.

Those who come to life after the 1,000 years are not unrighteous sinners who you’re going to rule over. Actually, it doesn’t it seem like anyone other than Christians martyred in the great tribulation will be resurrected for the millennial kingdom. If you have a verse proving Revelation 20:4 is not completely accurate then please share it.

Anyway, I know this because if they were resurrected after the millennial kingdom then they die again here:

Rev. 20:9
9And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

That would mean their “second death” in the lake of fire would be their third death and their resurrection would be their second resurrection. As you can see it just creates Biblical contradictions.

In short, you won’t be ruling over anyone if you’re in the MK, but rather you’ll be ruled over by a theocracy run by Jesus Christ.
 
J

joecoten

Guest
#7
#7
I could handle ruling over the Democrats!
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#8
Jul 24, 2016
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#8
Jesus will rule the earth with the saints for 1000 years before the final judgement.. The great destruction and death that will come upon the earth during the times of the LORDs return will not Kill every human being on earth.. There will be survivors.. It is these survivors that Christians will rule over with Jesus..
 
K

kleronomos

Banned
#9
Dec 15, 2021
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#9
Amanuensis said:
That's just weird. So these people who are wicked get a reprieve from hell to live in the kingdom of God for 1000 years? I don't think so.

Those who are found worthy to enter into the kingdom are not going to be tasked with herding zombies. Come on man!!!

Click to expand...
Just and unjust. Where did you get wicked from? If being spiritually dead in a resurrected body makes a zombie then there are billions of Zombies walking around today aren't there? How do you classify those who have died but are alive in heaven. Your comments are very strange in a conversation on the Bible.
 
K

kleronomos

Banned
#10
Dec 15, 2021
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#10
Subhumanoidal said:
You're not God, Mr All Red, Bold Caps. 😂
It's quite obvious that she was referencing people ruling over other people. Creation over creation, not Creator over creation.
Click to expand...

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


2Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.




Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.




1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1 Corinthians 6:2 DO YE NOT KNOW THAT THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?




And YOU are worried about MY USE OF CAPITOL LETTERS? Quite the sad commentary on the state of the church
 
K

kleronomos

Banned
#11
Dec 15, 2021
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#11
Runningman said:
The rest of the dead (the dead in Christ) did not come to life until after the 1,000 years were complete. That’s the entire first resurrection.
Click to expand...
Runningman said:
Those who come to life after the 1,000 years are not unrighteous sinners who you’re going to rule over. Actually, it doesn’t it seem like anyone other than Christians martyred in the great tribulation will be resurrected for the millennial kingdom. If you have a verse proving Revelation 20:4 is not completely accurate then please share it.
Click to expand...

Here's a couple more for you.



Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.





Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
 
K

kleronomos

Banned
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Dec 15, 2021
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#12
Adstar said:
Jesus will rule the earth with the saints for 1000 years before the final judgement.. The great destruction and death that will come upon the earth during the times of the LORDs return will not Kill every human being on earth.. There will be survivors.. It is these survivors that Christians will rule over with Jesus..
Click to expand...


Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.



Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.




Who exactly escapes that? It takes worshipping the image to buy and sell. How many people do you know are prepared for that?
 
K

kleronomos

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Dec 15, 2021
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#13
So again, my question, IF THE DEAD DON'T RISE who do we rule and reign over?
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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Why is it so important to you that you will become a ruler?

Being in charge is a LOT of work. I personally plan to spend my days in Heaven relaxing and living. Ruling is not relaxing. Servant leadership is not just a buzzword. It's really work. Integrating various skill sets to accomplish tasks together and in sequence without creating a disaster.

It's project management, human resource management, coordination between groups, and planning for personal growth of all involved...to accomplish huge tasks.
I plan on eating fruit and fishing.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

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#15
Sep 4, 2013
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this "reign with" is being misused; which is not a great surprise.

to "reign with" simply means we will be PART of His Kingdom, not overseers or any such........ Scripture does say that there will be 12 Judges appointed, but, shoot, you REALLY think you got a shot at being one of the 12?

This type of thing is why folks should not try to teach Revelations. 99% of the time they get it wrong
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

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p_rehbein said:
this "reign with" is being misused; which is not a great surprise.

to "reign with" simply means we will be PART of His Kingdom, not overseers or any such........ Scripture does say that there will be 12 Judges appointed, but, shoot, you REALLY think you got a shot at being one of the 12?

This type of thing is why folks should not try to teach Revelations. 99% of the time they get it wrong
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Thank God for that one...

I'd rather herd cats than rule over people....cats are easier to herd than ruling over this miscreant lot!
 
A

Adstar

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#17
Jul 24, 2016
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#17
kleronomos said:
Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.



Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.




Who exactly escapes that? It takes worshipping the image to buy and sell. How many people do you know are prepared for that?
Click to expand...

You quoted scripture that affirms some flesh will survive the tribulation / wrath times when jesus shall return..

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Click to expand...
We the Saints will no longer be in the old flesh bodies we shall be transformed and shall have eternal bodies and we shall be ruling with Jesus on earth for those 1000 years..
 
Beckie

Beckie

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#18
Feb 15, 2022
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#18
kleronomos said:
WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD THINKS OF THAT?
Click to expand...
This is the way of King Jesus
Joh 13:4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
Joh 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
Joh 13:6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
Joh 13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
Joh 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
 
A

Amanuensis

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#19
Jun 12, 2021
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#19
kleronomos said:
Just and unjust. Where did you get wicked from? If being spiritually dead in a resurrected body makes a zombie then there are billions of Zombies walking around today aren't there? How do you classify those who have died but are alive in heaven. Your comments are very strange in a conversation on the Bible.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I did not mean to offend you. My comments were meant to be humor.


I really don't understand your question. The unjust dead are the wicked dead. They currently are in hell. At the judgment they are raised, judged and cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
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