What Verse or Passage of scripture do you find difficult to interpret?

Amanuensis · May 22, 2022

What Verse or Passage of scripture do you find difficult to interpret. Let's see if we can discover authorial intent using the rules of hermeneutics.

p_rehbein · May 22, 2022

Well, ok. Say, why don't you go first?

Amanuensis · May 22, 2022

p_rehbein said:

I was looking for something new. But I will bring up an example. We don't have to discuss it if it has been recently worn out but it is a good example of one that is hard to understand at first read.

1 Peter 3
18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19in which he also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison 20who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared.

Does this mean that Jesus preached to spirits in prison after he was killed, or after he was made alive? Or does this mean that Noah preached to those people while they were still alive by the Spirit of Christ that was in him before they died and were put in prison which is where they are now?

Peter said that the Spirit of Christ was in these old prophets when they preached and I was wondering if that is what Peter is referring to when he says this?

They inquired into what time or what circumstances the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when he testified in advance to the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Lafftur · May 23, 2022

Amanuensis said:

Great questions!

Jesus Christ with His Blood and Body has purchased - paid the price, the debt owed for us - any human alive on Earth or dead in the grave with their soul/spirit in Hell/Hades.

ONLY Jesus Christ has the keys of Hell/Hades the prison where Jesus Christ preaches the gospel of the good news of Salvation! He is able to deliver us even from the very pit of Hell/Hades… ONLY Jesus Christ can do this.

While His Body was in the tomb and before He rose from the dead, He was preaching to the spirits in the prison of Hell/Hades with Him…those that believed in Him would leave Hell/Hades and also receive their physical bodies just as He was about to do… rise from the dead!

Other graves were open and saints rose with Christ… all were seen by many…

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Matthew 27:52-53 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 27:52-53&version=KJV

Lafftur · May 23, 2022

Amanuensis said:

The Spirit of Christ contains ALL prophecy and the FULFILLMENT of all prophecy.

All the prophets that prophesied did so with the Spirit of Christ which is The Prophecy, The Prophet, and the Fulfillment of all that was prophesied.

Just as John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah to announce The Christ, the prophets prophesied in the Spirit of Christ concerning Christ.

Lafftur · May 23, 2022

Elijah is the VOICE of the prophets that speak of Christ.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · May 23, 2022

Amanuensis said:

I agree with the latter in bold. "Or does this mean that Noah preached to those people while they were still alive by the Spirit of Christ that was in him before they died and were put in prison which is where they are now?"

Thank you for a refreshing and edifying thread, great job!

I wish to contribute more to this thread after getting some rest.

birdie · May 23, 2022

Thanks for your question Amanuensis, concerning this scripture:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."

The Bible uses the word "prison" to describe those who are unsaved, who are not made free from the penalty of the law, and so could be said to be in prison in that respect.
To understand this verse you have to understand that the Bible talks about the days of Noah being like the days of the Son of man. "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. " Once we know this, we see that the scripture is talking about the spirit of Christ. Christ preaches to those who are unsaved but he uses his Christian true believers to do it by means of his Spirit. Baptism is mentioned because it is a word meaning 'washed'. Those who hear the gospel are then washed free of the stain and penalty of sin by Christ once suffering for their sins to be paid. They are forgiven. The ark mentioned is a picture of God's covenant. For those who are saved, we read: "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. "

Snacks · May 23, 2022

Genesis 4:17
Who was Cain’s wife?
Where did she come from?
Who were her parents?

Amanuensis · May 23, 2022

Lafftur said:

Thanks @Lafftur but what about this?

...in which he also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared...

The target audience that was preached to was only specifically said to be THOSE WHO WERE DISOBEDIENT when Noah was preparing the Ark.

He does not say that He went and preached to all the righteous who died before the cross. He does not say that he preached to all those who were righteous who died before the flood. He says he preached to those who were disobdedient when the ark was being prepared. The ones that were given the opportunity to repent because God was patient enough to give them 120 years before he destroyed them all with a flood while the Ark was being prepared, but they did not and were killed by the flood. Those are the ones in prison and those are the ones he said he preached to.

Why? Was it to just rub it in? To add to their eternal punishment? We don't think they got a second chance and got to repent in hell and get resurrected. Just this select group? We don't normally preach that any disobedient people in hell get a second chance to hear the Gospel in hell.

So people have come up with a theory that Jesus went and freed the Righteous in that part of Sheol that housed them not the part where the disobedient are in torment. HOWEVER that is not at all what the text says. It says...those who were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared ... a unique and targeted audience.

It was also Peter that said that Noah was a preacher of righteousness.
2 Peter 2:5
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

So if Noah was a Preacher of righteousness and if he preached to the disobedient while preparing the Ark, then the flood came upon those ungodly and they are now in prison, and if Peter also was including Noah as preaching with the Spirit of Christ then maybe Peter meant that Noah a preacher of righteousness preached to those ungodly that are now in prison while he was preparing the Ark?

It's a difficult passage and I am not going to force my interpretation on anyone but I am leaning toward this one.

Amanuensis · May 23, 2022

Snacks said:

So I think the author would expect us to assume that Cain got his wife from one of his sisters.

16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city,

So between Gn 4:16 and 17 Cain probably took a trip over to the land on the other side of Eden where Adam was and took one of possibly many daughters. Because Gen 5:3 says that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born.

Gen 5:3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth

And we know that Adam and Even had daughters also. Imagine how many daughters might have been born in 130 years?

Since we have 130 years of possible daughters being born to Adam and Eve we can assume that Cain took one of these to be his wife and we are not given any details about how. Maybe he kidnapped her maybe she liked him and went willingly, we don't know.

But there is no reason to imagine other people not born from Adam and Eve in the world as some have imagined.

Who did Seth Marry? Seth was 105 before he had Enos. Now since Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters (Gen 5:4) then it is possible that during those 105 years before Seth had his first son those other sons and daughters had children and Seth could have married a niece, or a grand niece or even a great grand niece.

If Adam and Even had other sons and daughters before Seth, and they are not mentioned because it focuses on Seth who was the seed of promise, then that opens up even more people and descendants during 130 years that Cain might have had to choose from besides a sister.

Abraham married a woman who had the same father as he so it is not so hard to accept that both Cain and Seth would marry a sister if that were the situation they had to deal with. There is no reason to be shocked about the idea of incest if that is what happened. We should not imagine other people being already on the earth to provide Cain a wife because we can't imagine him taking a sister to wife.

Nor should we imagine that Cain's people were all inbreds. No more than Seth's. For that matter we are all descended from Noah's three sons whos offspring were forced to marry 1st cousins.

God was able to protect the gene pool.

Amanuensis · May 23, 2022

Amanuensis said:

So I think the author would expect us to assume that Cain got his wife from one of his sisters.

16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city,

So between Gn 4:16 and 17 Cain probably took a trip over to the land on the other side of Eden where Adam was and took one of possibly many daughters. Because Gen 5:3 says that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born.

Gen 5:3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth

And we know that Adam and Even had daughters also. Imagine how many daughters might have been born in 130 years?

Since we have 130 years of possible daughters being born to Adam and Eve we can assume that Cain took one of these to be his wife and we are not given any details about how. Maybe he kidnapped her maybe she liked him and went willingly, we don't know.

But there is no reason to imagine other people not born from Adam and Eve in the world as some have imagined.

Who did Seth Marry? Seth was 105 before he had Enos. Now since Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters (Gen 5:4) then it is possible that during those 105 years before Seth had his first son those other sons and daughters had children and Seth could have married a niece, or a grand niece or even a great grand niece.

If Adam and Even had other sons and daughters before Seth, and they are not mentioned because it focuses on Seth who was the seed of promise, then that opens up even more people and descendants during 130 years that Cain might have had to choose from besides a sister.

Abraham married a woman who had the same father as he so it is not so hard to accept that both Cain and Seth would marry a sister if that were the situation they had to deal with. There is no reason to be shocked about the idea of incest if that is what happened. We should not imagine other people being already on the earth to provide Cain a wife because we can't imagine him taking a sister to wife.

Nor should we imagine that Cain's people were all inbreds. No more than Seth's. For that matter we are all descended from Noah's three sons whos offspring were forced to marry 1st cousins.

God was able to protect the gene pool.

There is another theory. That Cain already had a wife when he left and went east of Eden. That she left with him but is not mentioned. That is plausible.

p_rehbein · May 23, 2022

John Gill says:

1 Peter 3:17. And having made mention of his being quickened by the Spirit, the apostle takes occasion from hence of observing, that by the same Spirit Christ preached in the times of Noah to disobedient persons, whose spirits were now in hell; and he takes notice of the longsuffering of God in that dispensation towards them, and of the goodness of God in saving Noah, and his family, in the ark, which was a figure of baptism; of which some account is given what it is, and is not, and which saves by the resurrection of Christ, 1 Peter 3:19 who is described by his ascension to heaven, session at the right hand of God, and dominion over angels, authorities, and powers

Verse 17. For it is better, if the will of God be so,.... For all things are ordered by the will of God, even all the sufferings and afflictions of the saints; and which is a reason why they ought to be patiently submitted to, and bore: and "better" it is, more honourable and profitable,

that ye suffer for well doing; for believing in Christ, professing him and his Gospel, giving a free and open reason for so doing, and for exercising a good conscience, and living godly in Christ Jesus:

than for evil doing; as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a busy body in other men's matters, 1 Peter 4:15.

Verse 18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,.... Not his own, for he committed none, but for the sins of his people; in order to obtain the remission of them, to make reconciliation for them, and to take and put them away, and finish and make an end of them; which sufferings of his, on account of them, were many and great: he suffered much by bearing the griefs, and carrying the sorrows of his people, whereby he became a man of sorrows, and acquainted with griefs, from his cradle to his cross; and from the temptations of Satan, being in all points tempted, as his members are, though without sin; and from the contradiction of sinners against him, in his name, credit, and character, abusing him as the worst of men; and he suffered in his soul, from the wrath of God, and curses of the law, which lay upon him; and in his body, by many buffetings, scourges, wounds, and death itself, even the death of the cross; and which being the finishing part of his sufferings, is chiefly here meant. The Alexandrian copy reads, "died for you"; and the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Ethiopic versions read, "died for our sins"; and this he did once, and but once; he died once, and will die no more; he was offered up once, and will be offered up no more; there is no more offering, or sacrifice for sin; the reason is, because his one offering is sufficient to take away sin, which the legal sacrifices were not, and therefore were often offered; and the reason why this his one offering, or once suffering and dying, is sufficient, is, because of his divine nature, or eternal Spirit, by which he offered himself, and gave infinite virtue to his sacrifice and satisfaction: now, this is an argument for suffering patiently; since Christ, the head, has also suffered, and therefore, why not the members? and since he has suffered for their sins, therefore they should not grudge to suffer for his sake; and seeing also their sufferings are but once, in this life only, and as it were but for a moment, and not to be compared with his sufferings for them; and especially when it is considered what follows:

the just for the unjust; Christ, the holy and just one, who is holy in his nature, and righteous in his life and actions, which were entirely conformable to the righteous law of God, and upright and faithful in the discharge of his office, and therefore called God's righteous servant; he suffered, and that not only by unjust men, by the Jews, by Pilate, and the Roman soldiers, but for and in the room and stead of unjust men, sinners, and ungodly, who were destitute of righteousness, and full of all unrighteousness; and since he did, it need not be thought hard, or strange, that sinful men should suffer at the hands of others; and still it should be borne with the greater patience, since Christ not only suffered for them, but since an end is answered by it, as is here suggested:

that he might bring us to God; nigh to God, who, with respect to communion, were afar off from him; and in peace and reconciliation with him, who were enemies to him by wicked works; and that they might have freedom of access, with boldness, unto God, through his precious blood, and the vail of his flesh; and that he might offer them unto God, as the Vulgate Latin and Syriac versions render it; as a sacrifice acceptable unto God, presenting them to him unblamable and unreproveable in his sight; that he might bring them into his grace and presence here, and, as the great Captain of their salvation, bring them to him in glory hereafter:

being put to death in the flesh; in the human nature: flesh includes the whole of human nature, both body and soul; for though the body only dies, yet death is the dissolution of the union between them both; and such was Christ's death; for though the union between the two natures continued, yet his body and soul were disunited; his body was left on the cross, and his soul, or Spirit, was commended to God, when his life was taken from the earth, and he was put to death in a violent manner by men:

but quickened by the Spirit; raised from the dead by his divine nature, the Spirit of holiness, the eternal Spirit, by which he offered himself, and by virtue of which, as he had power to lay down his life, so he had power to take it up again; when he was also justified in the Spirit, and all the elect in him. Now, as the enemies of Christ could do no more than put him to death in the flesh, so the enemies of his people can do no more than kill the body, and cannot reach the soul; and as Christ is quickened and raised from the dead, so all his elect are quickened together, and raised with him, representatively, and shall, by virtue of his resurrection, be raised personally, and live also; which is no inconsiderable argument to suffer afflictions patiently, and which is the design of this instance and example of the sufferings, death, and resurrection of Christ.

p_rehbein · May 23, 2022

continued>.............

Verse 19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Various are the senses given of this passage: some say, that Christ, upon his death, went in his human soul to hell; either, as some, to preach to the devils and damned spirits, that they might be saved, if they would; and, as others, to let them know that he was come, and to fill them with dread and terror; but though hell may be meant by the prison, yet the text does not say that he went unto it, or preached in it; only that the spirits were in it, to whom he sometimes went, and preached; nor is his human soul, but his divine nature meant, by the Spirit, by which he went and preached to them: and as for the ends proposed, the former is impracticable and impossible; for after death follows judgment, which is an eternal one; nor is there any salvation, or hope of salvation afterwards; and the latter is absurd, vain, and needless. Others, as the Papists, imagine the sense to be, that Christ, at his death, went in his human soul, into a place they call "Limbus Patrum," which they suppose is meant by the prison here, and delivered the souls of the Old Testament saints and patriarchs from thence, and carried them with him to heaven; but this sense is also false, because, as before observed, not the human soul of Christ, but his divine nature, is designed by the Spirit; nor is there any such place as here feigned, in which the souls of Old Testament saints were, before the death of Christ; for they were in peace and rest, in the kingdom of heaven, in Abraham's bosom, inheriting the promises, and not in a prison; besides, the text says not one word of the delivering of these spirits out of prison, only of Christ's preaching to them: add to all this, and which Beza, with others, observes, the apostle speaks of such as had been disobedient, and unbelievers; a character which will not agree with righteous men, and prophets, and patriarchs, under the former dispensation: others think the words are to be understood of Christ's going to preach, by his apostles, to the Gentiles, as in Ephesians 2:17 who were in a most miserable condition, strangers to the covenants of promise, and destitute of the hope of salvation, and sat in darkness, and the shadow of death, and, as it were, at the gates of hell; were in the bonds of iniquity, and dead in sin, and had been for long time past foolish and disobedient, serving divers lusts and pleasures, to which they were in bondage.

This is, indeed, a more tolerable sense than the former; but it will be difficult to show, that men, in the present state of life, are called "spirits," which seems to be a word that relates to the souls of men, in a separate state from their bodies; and especially that carnal and unconverted men are ever so called; and besides, the apostle is speaking of such who were disobedient in the times of Noah; and therefore not of the Gentiles, in the times of the apostles: add to which, that the transition from the times of the apostles, according to this sense, to the days of Noah, is very unaccountable; this sense does not agree with the connection of the words: others are of opinion, that this is meant of the souls of the Old Testament saints, who were en fulakh, "in a watch," as they think the phrase may be rendered, instead of "in prison": and said to be in such a situation, because they were intent upon the hope of promised salvation, and were looking out for the Messiah, and anxiously desiring his coming, and which he, by some gracious manifestation, made known unto them: but though the word may sometimes signify a watch, yet more commonly a prison, and which sense best suits here; nor is that anxiety and uneasiness, which represents them as in a prison, so applicable to souls in a state of happiness; nor such a gracious manifestation so properly called preaching; and besides, not believers, but unbelievers, disobedient ones, are here spoken of; and though it is only said they were sometimes so, yet to what purpose should this former character be once mentioned of souls now in glory? but it would be tedious to reckon up the several different senses of this place; some referring it to such in Noah's time, to whom the Gospel was preached, and who repented; and though they suffered in their bodies, in the general deluge, yet their souls were saved; whereas the apostle calls them all, "the world of the ungodly," 2 Peter 2:5 and others, to the eight souls that were shut up in the ark, as in a prison, and were saved; though these are manifestly distinguished in the text from the disobedient spirits.

The plain and easy sense of the words is, that Christ, by his Spirit, by which he was quickened, went in the ministry of Noah, the preacher of righteousness, and preached both by words and deeds, by the personal ministry of Noah, and by the building of the ark, to that generation who was then in being; and who being disobedient, and continuing so, a flood was brought upon them which destroyed them all; and whose spirits, or separate souls, were then in the prison of hell, so the Syriac version renders it, lwyvb, "in hell," see Revelation 20:7 when the Apostle Peter wrote this epistle; so that Christ neither went into this prison, nor preached in it, nor to spirits that were then in it when he preached, but to persons alive in the days of Noah, and who being disobedient, when they died, their separate souls were put into prison, and there they were when the apostle wrote: from whence we learn, that Christ was, that he existed in his divine nature before he was incarnate, he was before Abraham, he was in the days of Noah; and that Christ also, under the Old Testament, acted the part of a Mediator, in his divine nature, and by his Spirit discharged that branch of it, his prophetic office, before he appeared in human nature; and that the Gospel was preached in those early times, as unto Abraham, so before him.

p_rehbein · May 23, 2022

continued........

Verse 20. Which sometime were disobedient,.... To all the instructions and warnings which God gave them, to all the strivings of his Spirit, and to the ministry of Christ, by Noah; they continued in their profaneness and impiety, and to corrupt their ways, and fill the earth with violence and wickedness; not believing what they were threatened with, or that ever a flood would come upon them, and destroy them: and this "sometime" refers to the time of their being upon earth, who were now in hell; "to the days of Noah"; hereafter mentioned; and which the Syriac version connects with this clause, reading it thus, "who of old were disobedient in the days of Noah"; at which time it was, that Christ, by his Spirit in Noah, went and preached to them: when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah: that is, when God, who is longsuffering and patient, waited on these disobedient ones, in Noah's time, for the space of an hundred and twenty years:

while the ark was preparing; by Noah, according to the directions which God gave him, Genesis 6:14 and which, as R. Tanchuma says {b}, was fifty two years a building; others say {c} an hundred years; but Jarchi says {d} it was an hundred and twenty; and which seems most likely, that being the term of time in which God's longsuffering waited on them; during which time Noah was preaching to them, and building the ark:

wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water; the eight persons were, Noah, and his wife, and his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japhet, and their three wives. It is a common tradition with the Jews {e}, that besides these, Og, king of Bashan, escaped the flood; and who, they say, is the same that escaped, and told Abraham of Lot's being carried captive by the kings {f}; the manner of his escape at the flood they relate thus {g}; "Og came, who was delivered from the men that died at the flood; and he rode upon the ark, and he had a covering upon his head, and was fed with the food of Noah; but not for his worthiness was he delivered, but that the inhabitants of the world might see the power of the Lord;" and elsewhere {h}, after this manner, citing those words, "and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark," Genesis 7:23 they add, "except Og, king of Bashan, who sat on a certain piece of wood which belonged to the scaffolding of the ark, and he swore to Noah, and his sons, that he would be their servant for ever. What did Noah do? he bored an hole in the ark, and every day reached out food to him, and he remained alive, according to what is said, Deuteronomy 3:11 "only Og, king of Bashan," &c."

But this is all a mere fiction; and equally fabulous is the account the Arabians give, who say {i} that eighty persons, together with Noah, were taken into the ark, among whom was Jorham, their father; for there were no more than eight persons saved; and this is the apostle's sense; and agreeably the Syriac version renders it, "and eight souls" dwxlb, "only entered into it, and were saved by water"; and we are told by some of the eastern writers {k}, that when these eight went out of the ark, they built a city, which they called Themanin, which, in the Arabic language, signifies "eight," according to their number. The ark was a type of Christ, into whom whoever enters by faith, or in whom whoever believes, shall be saved; but as they that entered into the ark were but few, so are those that enter in at the strait gate, or believe in Christ; and they that went into the ark were saved by the water bearing up the ark, even by that by which others were destroyed; as the very same thing, for different reasons, is the cause or means of destruction and salvation; so Christ is set, for the fall and rising of many, is a stumblingblock to some, and the power and wisdom of God to others; and the Gospel, and the ministers of it, are the savour of life unto life to some, and the savour of death unto death to others. This instance of the dispensation of the providence of God to the old world is very appropriately, though by way of digression, introduced by the apostle; showing, that in times past, as then, God's usual method has been to afford the outward means to ungodly men, and to bear with them long, and then bring down his vengeance upon them, and save his own people; and this suffering saints might depend upon would be their case, and therefore should bear their afflictions patiently.

{b} In Pirke Eliezer, c. 23. {c} Elmacin. Hist. apud Hottinger. Smegma Orient. l. 1. c. 8. p. 249. {d} In Gen. vi. 15. {e} Targum Jon. in Deut. iii. 11. T. Bab. Nidda, fol. 61. 1. {f} Bereshit Rabba, sect. 42. fol. 37. 2. Targum Jon. & Jarchi in Gen. xiv. 13. {g} Targum Jon. in Gen. xiv. 13. {h} Pirke Eliezer, c. 23. {i} Pocock. Specim. Hist. Arab. p. 38. {k} Eutychii Annal. p. 43. Elmacin. Hist. l. 1. c. 1. p. 12. Patricides, p. 10. Apud Hottinger, Smegma Orient. l. 1. c. 8. p. 251, 252.

p_rehbein · May 23, 2022

continued.......

Verse 21. The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us,.... The ark, and deliverance by it, as it was a type of Christ, and salvation by him, so it was a figure of baptism, and baptism was the antitype of that; or there is something in these which correspond, and answer to, and bear a resemblance to each other: as the ark was God's ordinance, and not man's invention, so is baptism, it is of heaven, and not of men; and as the ark, while it was preparing, was the scorn and derision of men, so is this ordinance of the Gospel; it was rejected with disdain by the Scribes and Pharisees, as it still is by many; and as the ark, when Noah and his family were shut up in it by God, represented a burial, and they seemed, as it were, to be buried in it, it was a lively emblem of baptism, which is expressed by a burial, Romans 6:4 and as they in the ark had the great deep broke up under them, and the windows of heaven opened over them, pouring out waters upon them, they were, as it were, immersed in, and were covered with water, this fitly figured baptism by immersion; nor were there any but adult persons that entered into the ark, nor should any be baptized but believers; to which may be added, that as the one saved by water, so does the other; for it is water baptism which is here designed, which John practised, Christ gave a commission for, and his disciples administered: it saves not as a cause, for it has no causal influence on, nor is it essential to salvation. Christ only is the cause and author of eternal salvation; and as those only that were in the ark were saved by water, so those only that are in Christ, and that are baptized into Christ, and into his death, are saved by baptism; not everyone that is baptized, but he that believeth, and is baptized, shall be saved, Mr 16:16, for baptism

is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh; the design of it is not to take off the sordid flesh, as circumcision did; or in a ceremonious way, outwardly, to sanctify to the purifying of the flesh, as the Jewish baptisms did; see Hebrews 9:10, or to take away either original or actual sin; this only the blood of Christ can do; and it is not a mere external cleansing of the body:

but the answer of a good conscience towards God; the Vulgate Latin renders it, "the interrogation of a good conscience"; referring, it may be, to the interrogations that used to be put to those who desired baptism; as, dost thou renounce Satan? dost thou believe in Christ? see Acts 8:36, others render it, "the stipulation of a good conscience"; alluding also to the ancient custom of obliging those that were baptized to covenant and agree to live an holy life and conversation, to renounce the devil and all his works, and the pomps and vanities of this world; and baptism does certainly lay an obligation on men to walk in newness of life; see Romans 6:4, the Ethiopic version renders it, "confession of God"; and to this the Syriac version agrees, rendering it, "confessing God with a pure conscience"; for, to baptism, profession of faith in Christ, and of the doctrine of Christ in a pure conscience, is requisite; and in baptism persons make a public confession of God, and openly put on Christ before men: the sense seems plainly this; that then is baptism rightly performed, and its end answered, when a person, conscious to himself of its being an ordinance of Christ, and of his duty to submit to it, does do so upon profession of his faith in Christ, in obedience to his command, and "with" a view to his glory; in doing which he discharges a good conscience towards God: and being thus performed, it saves,

by the resurrection of Jesus Christ; being a means of leading the faith of the baptized person, as to the blood of Christ, for pardon and cleansing, so to the resurrection of Christ, to justification; see Acts 2:38, moreover, the sense of the passage may be this, that baptism is a like figure as the ark of Noah was; that as the entrance of Noah and his family into the ark was an emblem of a burial, so their coming out of it was a figure of the resurrection; and just such a figure is baptism, performed by immersion, both of the resurrection of Christ from the dead, and of the resurrection of saints to walk in newness of life. The Arabic version renders the whole verse thus; "of which thing baptism is now a type saving us, not by removing the filth of the flesh only, but by exhilarating a good conscience towards God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Verse 22. Who is gone into heaven,.... After he had been risen forty days, where he is received, and will remain, until the restitution of all things; and where he appears in the presence of God for his people, and ever lives to make intercession for them; and is entered as their forerunner, and is preparing mansions of glory for them; and will come again, and take them to himself, to be for ever with him, and from hence they expect him:

and is on the right hand of God; where Stephen saw him; and which is an honour never conferred on any angel, or man; and shows that Christ had done his work, and that in a way acceptable to God; the Vulgate Latin version here adds "swallowing up death, that we might be made heirs of eternal life"; but is not supported by any copy or version:

angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him; by "angels" may be meant angels both good and bad, who are all in subjection to Christ; and by authorities and powers, the kings, princes, and governors of this world, who hold their dominions from and under the Lord Jesus Christ; and which is an argument why believers should patiently bear all their sufferings and afflictions, since Christ has the government in his hands, and he rules and overrules all things for good; and when he pleases, he can put a stop to the rage and persecutions of men; and so the apostle returns to his former argument, in the following chapter.

p_rehbein · May 23, 2022

Gills comments found here:

1 Peter 3 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Lafftur · May 23, 2022

Amanuensis said:

Thanks @Lafftur but what about this?

...in which he also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared...

The target audience that was preached to was only specifically said to be THOSE WHO WERE DISOBEDIENT when Noah was preparing the Ark.

He does not say that He went and preached to all the righteous who died before the cross. He does not say that he preached to all those who were righteous who died before the flood. He says he preached to those who were disobdedient when the ark was being prepared. The ones that were given the opportunity to repent because God was patient enough to give them 120 years before he destroyed them all with a flood while the Ark was being prepared, but they did not and were killed by the flood. Those are the ones in prison and those are the ones he said he preached to.

Why? Was it to just rub it in? To add to their eternal punishment? We don't think they got a second chance and got to repent in hell and get resurrected. Just this select group? We don't normally preach that any disobedient people in hell get a second chance to hear the Gospel in hell.

So people have come up with a theory that Jesus went and freed the Righteous in that part of Sheol that housed them not the part where the disobedient are in torment. HOWEVER that is not at all what the text says. It says...those who were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared ... a unique and targeted audience.

It was also Peter that said that Noah was a preacher of righteousness.
2 Peter 2:5
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

So if Noah was a Preacher of righteousness and if he preached to the disobedient while preparing the Ark, then the flood came upon those ungodly and they are now in prison, and if Peter also was including Noah as preaching with the Spirit of Christ then maybe Peter meant that Noah a preacher of righteousness preached to those ungodly that are now in prison while he was preparing the Ark?

It's a difficult passage and I am not going to force my interpretation on anyone but I am leaning toward this one.

Yes, I agree with you concerning it was the disobedient in prison, not the righteous; and I agree that those in Hell/Hades can get another chance to receive Jesus Christ, they just don’t have any rewards in Heaven but they can be saved by Jesus Christ alone.

However, ONLY Jesus Christ has the keys to Hell/Hades which means ONLY Jesus Christ can preach to the spirits in prison.

Magenta · May 23, 2022

Snacks said:

I just addressed some of these questions on another thread!

Why do people think anyone was in Nod when Cain arrived? Why not assume he went there with his wife? Just because she conceived there does not mean he met her there, or that he married her there, or never knew her in either manner of speaking, before he/they got there. Cain built the city he lived in. How do we interpret that? It can be interpreted to mean that Cain and his descendants were the originators of that city. Even if people were there before he arrived, why assume they were not relatives of his as the population grew, and naturally spread into outlying areas? People jump to so many wrong conclusions making assumptions that are not in any way supported by the text, and then compound their error by refusing to acknowledge what is in the text.

Runningman · May 23, 2022

Amanuensis said:

Post-mortem evangelism seems to be a theologically sound doctrine.

1 Peter 3:19
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 4:6
6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Romans 8:38-39
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 4:24,25
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

What Verse or Passage of scripture do you find difficult to interpret?

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