How did Satan face God in Job?
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• Job 1:6 . . Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before The Lord, and Satan came also among them.
The Hebrew word translated "Lord" in that verse is YHWH, a.k.a. Jehovah,
a.k.a. Yahweh; which isn't the Supreme Being in person, rather, a
characterization: defined as a tangible representation of something, or
someone, intangible, for example:
"Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the
elders of Israel: and they saw the God of Israel: and there was under His
feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of
heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel He laid
not His hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink." (Ex 24:9-11)
They did see God, yes, but not the Supreme Being in person, no: instead;
they saw a characterization.
Christians are familiar with God's characterization as The Word spoken of in
John 1:1-5 whereas the ancient Jews were familiar with him as Metatran: a
high ranking celestial being in the Talmud whose name is his Master's-- he
makes appearances as God, he speaks for God, he speaks as God, and he
must be obeyed as God. (e.g. Ex 23:20-22)
Metatron's is the voice that people hear whenever God has something to
say. I get that from John 1:1 where The Word is translated from the Greek
noun logos (log'-os) which pertains to speech rather than thoughts, for
example:
• Gen 1:3 . . And God said: Let there be light
That command was initiated by the Supreme Being but the actual
vocalization was done by the Logos, a.k.a. The Word.
• John 1:2-3 . .The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
_
• Job 1:6 . . Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before The Lord, and Satan came also among them.
The Hebrew word translated "Lord" in that verse is YHWH, a.k.a. Jehovah,
a.k.a. Yahweh; which isn't the Supreme Being in person, rather, a
characterization: defined as a tangible representation of something, or
someone, intangible, for example:
"Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the
elders of Israel: and they saw the God of Israel: and there was under His
feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of
heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel He laid
not His hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink." (Ex 24:9-11)
They did see God, yes, but not the Supreme Being in person, no: instead;
they saw a characterization.
Christians are familiar with God's characterization as The Word spoken of in
John 1:1-5 whereas the ancient Jews were familiar with him as Metatran: a
high ranking celestial being in the Talmud whose name is his Master's-- he
makes appearances as God, he speaks for God, he speaks as God, and he
must be obeyed as God. (e.g. Ex 23:20-22)
Metatron's is the voice that people hear whenever God has something to
say. I get that from John 1:1 where The Word is translated from the Greek
noun logos (log'-os) which pertains to speech rather than thoughts, for
example:
• Gen 1:3 . . And God said: Let there be light
That command was initiated by the Supreme Being but the actual
vocalization was done by the Logos, a.k.a. The Word.
• John 1:2-3 . .The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
_
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Satan used to be a heavenly spiritual being in the Old Testament mans accuser but this happened when christs kingdom came forth
“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Revelation 12:7-10
Now instead of accusing us before God in heaven he’s on earth tempting us and deceiving and resisting warring against us in earth he was cast out forever and lost his place in heaven but
“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:12, 17
now the situation Is this
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
now he’s in the world working to destroy our faith in the gospel and steal our place away in the church rather than accusing us for our sins to God by the law like the ot , he’s attacking us on earth trying to keep us from entering the kingdom he lost in heaven
He can’t accuse us now because Jesus died for remission of Sins instead of Satan now appearing accusing us and holding our sins against us reminding Of our sins Jesus is with God appearing for us in the opposite way advocating for us , remitting our sins , and interceding for us not against us like the devil in the old time
So old testsment under the book of the law
“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.”
Zechariah 3:1 KJV
always had an accuser but now he’s been cast out me we have now an advocate and intercessor with God on our behalf
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2
Satan can’t accuse to God anymore against us.
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34
“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
Hebrews 7:25 KJV
It used to be an accuser that appeared on our behalf
“the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
He lost his place and Jesus is now advocating for us but the enemy is. Or working on earth trying to keep
Us from the gospel where all this becomes true and we find our advocate and intercessor and savior Jesus Christ our lord
Instead of accusing us before God based on the words of the book of law now Satan is working here against us in the world to keep Us from salvation found only in the word of the gospel
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV
“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Revelation 12:7-10
Now instead of accusing us before God in heaven he’s on earth tempting us and deceiving and resisting warring against us in earth he was cast out forever and lost his place in heaven but
“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:12, 17
now the situation Is this
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
now he’s in the world working to destroy our faith in the gospel and steal our place away in the church rather than accusing us for our sins to God by the law like the ot , he’s attacking us on earth trying to keep us from entering the kingdom he lost in heaven
He can’t accuse us now because Jesus died for remission of Sins instead of Satan now appearing accusing us and holding our sins against us reminding Of our sins Jesus is with God appearing for us in the opposite way advocating for us , remitting our sins , and interceding for us not against us like the devil in the old time
So old testsment under the book of the law
“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.”
Zechariah 3:1 KJV
always had an accuser but now he’s been cast out me we have now an advocate and intercessor with God on our behalf
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2
Satan can’t accuse to God anymore against us.
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34
“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
Hebrews 7:25 KJV
It used to be an accuser that appeared on our behalf
“the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
He lost his place and Jesus is now advocating for us but the enemy is. Or working on earth trying to keep
Us from the gospel where all this becomes true and we find our advocate and intercessor and savior Jesus Christ our lord
Instead of accusing us before God based on the words of the book of law now Satan is working here against us in the world to keep Us from salvation found only in the word of the gospel
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV
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My suspicion is that this comes from the Jews (who is, in their reckoning, is God's divinely appointed accuser). I kid you not, this Rabbi says "THANK GOD FOR SATAN"
In all of his videos, Tovia is always burning down a straw-man Christianity that is built of heresies and nonsense. I suppose if he actually believed the dumb things he uses to misrepresent Christianity, then it's no wonder he defected to Judaism.
In all of his videos, Tovia is always burning down a straw-man Christianity that is built of heresies and nonsense. I suppose if he actually believed the dumb things he uses to misrepresent Christianity, then it's no wonder he defected to Judaism.
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• Heb 1:3a …The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact
representation of his being,
That verse depicts the Son as a characterization; viz: a tangible
representation of something and/or someone intangible.
The ramifications of that verse are as disturbing as they are astounding
because it means that whenever, wherever, and however the Supreme
Being interacted with human life, He did so via the Son rather than Himself
in person.
"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son-- who is in the
bosom of the Father --he has declared Him." (John 1:18)
"You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form." (John
5:37)
Most of us have a pretty vague notion of what the Supeme Being might be
like in person. But we needn't guess because quite a bit about Him in person
is in the person of His son.
"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on,
you do know him and have seen him. Philip said: Lord, show us the Father
and that will be enough for us. Jesus answered: Don't you know me, Philip,
even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen
me has seen the Father. How can you say: Show us the Father?" (John
14:7-9)
A living characterization of the Father had been right under Philip's nose all
along for just about three years and he didn't even know it. But I really
should cut Philip some slack because the rest of us really have no better
perception of the Father on our own than he did.
The shadow of a tree is something like Adam's likeness of God. On the
ground, a tree's shadow is little more than an irregular puddle of contrasts,
just a patchy smirch. But when we look up, oh! the tree comes alive with
color and detail. We can see how tall it is, the features of the bark, and the
shape and texture of the leaves and how they are arranged on the branches.
And then we notice that the tree is an ecosystem in itself; a habitat for
insects and other creatures invisible in the tree's shadow. The Son is like
that. When we look at ourselves all we see is God's shadow; but with the
Son, we see God in detail.
_
• Heb 1:3a …The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact
representation of his being,
That verse depicts the Son as a characterization; viz: a tangible
representation of something and/or someone intangible.
The ramifications of that verse are as disturbing as they are astounding
because it means that whenever, wherever, and however the Supreme
Being interacted with human life, He did so via the Son rather than Himself
in person.
"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son-- who is in the
bosom of the Father --he has declared Him." (John 1:18)
"You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form." (John
5:37)
Most of us have a pretty vague notion of what the Supeme Being might be
like in person. But we needn't guess because quite a bit about Him in person
is in the person of His son.
"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on,
you do know him and have seen him. Philip said: Lord, show us the Father
and that will be enough for us. Jesus answered: Don't you know me, Philip,
even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen
me has seen the Father. How can you say: Show us the Father?" (John
14:7-9)
A living characterization of the Father had been right under Philip's nose all
along for just about three years and he didn't even know it. But I really
should cut Philip some slack because the rest of us really have no better
perception of the Father on our own than he did.
The shadow of a tree is something like Adam's likeness of God. On the
ground, a tree's shadow is little more than an irregular puddle of contrasts,
just a patchy smirch. But when we look up, oh! the tree comes alive with
color and detail. We can see how tall it is, the features of the bark, and the
shape and texture of the leaves and how they are arranged on the branches.
And then we notice that the tree is an ecosystem in itself; a habitat for
insects and other creatures invisible in the tree's shadow. The Son is like
that. When we look at ourselves all we see is God's shadow; but with the
Son, we see God in detail.
_
You need to read and understand Revelation 2
Message to the Church in Smyrna
8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
(but thou art rich) Why are they rich? They know the difference between God's people and Satan's (seed read the answer Jesus gave about parable of the wheat and tares) Read Jeremiah 2 about the 2 baskets of figs. Jesus said to the know the difference between the 2; and there are only 2 type of people in God's eyes. You need to know and undrstand them.
Message to the Church in Smyrna
8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
(but thou art rich) Why are they rich? They know the difference between God's people and Satan's (seed read the answer Jesus gave about parable of the wheat and tares) Read Jeremiah 2 about the 2 baskets of figs. Jesus said to the know the difference between the 2; and there are only 2 type of people in God's eyes. You need to know and undrstand them.
As a senior member I thought you would understand it. I am sorry. You were talking about this Ribi and his teaching.
I am sorry if I came across disrespectful. Let look at Revelation 2.
The 7churches: The # 7 spiritual completeness. These 7 churches represent every church in the world at the time John wrote Revelation and it is still true today.
Revelation 2:8
Message to the Church in Smyrna
8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Who is the first and the last, which was dead and is alive: Jesus "God, one in the same". That is who is telling John to right this.
9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
This is the message for the church of Smyrna and every church that has this same, spirit, teaching and understanding around the world. I know your works: I know what you are doing; Your tribulations: The trials and suffering you are going through; and poverty: you may not be the church, or people with the most money the nicest homes and church but that is ok! You are rich beyond your wildest dreams in spiritual wealth. I KNOW: Who is that Jesus. He the lies, the bad things said and done to you by those that say they are Jews but do lie. They say they are of the tribe of Juda" they say they are a bible believing christian church. In reality they may live in the land of Judea, and there for came to be Jews "Christians " Thay are not They are of the synagogue "church" of Satan.
10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Where have we heard this before? Luke 21:12-19 They are going to bring you before death "Satan" they are going to put some of you in prison, some before kings. Do Not Worry! Why I "Jesus" will not let a hair on your head parish.
11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
What is the second death? It is the death of the soul: Mathew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. This is who you need to fear "We should never God but we should always Revere, and respect God".
I hope that helps and again I am sorry if I offended you by not following through like this.
I am sorry if I came across disrespectful. Let look at Revelation 2.
The 7churches: The # 7 spiritual completeness. These 7 churches represent every church in the world at the time John wrote Revelation and it is still true today.
Revelation 2:8
Message to the Church in Smyrna
8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Who is the first and the last, which was dead and is alive: Jesus "God, one in the same". That is who is telling John to right this.
9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
This is the message for the church of Smyrna and every church that has this same, spirit, teaching and understanding around the world. I know your works: I know what you are doing; Your tribulations: The trials and suffering you are going through; and poverty: you may not be the church, or people with the most money the nicest homes and church but that is ok! You are rich beyond your wildest dreams in spiritual wealth. I KNOW: Who is that Jesus. He the lies, the bad things said and done to you by those that say they are Jews but do lie. They say they are of the tribe of Juda" they say they are a bible believing christian church. In reality they may live in the land of Judea, and there for came to be Jews "Christians " Thay are not They are of the synagogue "church" of Satan.
10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Where have we heard this before? Luke 21:12-19 They are going to bring you before death "Satan" they are going to put some of you in prison, some before kings. Do Not Worry! Why I "Jesus" will not let a hair on your head parish.
11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
What is the second death? It is the death of the soul: Mathew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. This is who you need to fear "We should never God but we should always Revere, and respect God".
I hope that helps and again I am sorry if I offended you by not following through like this.
I responded to someone else's mention of Toviah Singer. I don't follow him at all.
Apology accepted.
I disagree on all those points. There is nothing in Scripture stating that the number seven represents spiritual completeness; that's an interpretation. I see nothing in Scripture indicating that the seven churches were representative, and of course that leaves it groundless whether the point is still valid today.
Apology accepted.
I disagree on all those points. There is nothing in Scripture stating that the number seven represents spiritual completeness; that's an interpretation. I see nothing in Scripture indicating that the seven churches were representative, and of course that leaves it groundless whether the point is still valid today.
Satan is a spirit being -- an evil angel. In the book of Job (and in Genesis) angels are called "sons of God" (meaning direct creations of God). Here is what we read in Job 1:6: Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Which implies that Satan (meaning "the Adversary") is an angelic being ( yet one poster on CC contradicted this recently in another thread, and needed to be corrected).
Now this is a rather mysterious and unusual meeting of "the LORD" (YHWH or Yahweh) with angels. It would appear that both evil and holy angels came to present themselves to "the LORD", and angels do see God. However, God (also called "the LORD") manifests Himself in the OT in various forms, without necessarily presenting His full glory. So we do not really know how "the LORD" appeared to the angels at this time.
Since Satan was already an evil angel at this point (God's Adversary), the meeting may have been in the "first" heaven (or atmospheric heaven) rather than in the "third" heaven (or God's Heaven). Since nothing unclean or evil can enter into God's Heaven it would seem that God met with all the angels in the first heaven.
Now this is a rather mysterious and unusual meeting of "the LORD" (YHWH or Yahweh) with angels. It would appear that both evil and holy angels came to present themselves to "the LORD", and angels do see God. However, God (also called "the LORD") manifests Himself in the OT in various forms, without necessarily presenting His full glory. So we do not really know how "the LORD" appeared to the angels at this time.
Since Satan was already an evil angel at this point (God's Adversary), the meeting may have been in the "first" heaven (or atmospheric heaven) rather than in the "third" heaven (or God's Heaven). Since nothing unclean or evil can enter into God's Heaven it would seem that God met with all the angels in the first heaven.
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Someone told me the Truth and i believed Him.
Since that Someone created ALL things, i trust His measure of ALL things to be accurate and reliable.
Opinions of men are never ending - but His Word endures Forever.
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."
"He(the Devil) was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him."
Peace Brother
Since that Someone created ALL things, i trust His measure of ALL things to be accurate and reliable.
Opinions of men are never ending - but His Word endures Forever.
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."
"He(the Devil) was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him."
Peace Brother