J
Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?
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You stated.
"One has to be thick"
You will end up getting reported.
You have to be kind to everyone.
You have to be honest with everyone. Report me if you wish. So be it. I stand by my post. And you may get me banned from this board, then you won't have to hear from those who disagree with you. No problemo.
You are wrong, Jesus only took one thief to Paradise, the fate of the other thief is completely unknown.
You indicated they were specifically heroic in their faith.
Why?
So Jesus is dangling a carrot an
So does Jesus just dangle a carrot? I’m not following you.
Go ahead, correct melol
Bro, count it a blessing if our dear purple lady corrects you
J
JAPOV
Guest
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Jesus NEVER knew them. He never made them a new creation.
He did NOT say, “I knew you at one time, and then you fell away!”
These people listed THEIR works to Jesus to justify themselves.
None of them said anything like “ Lord, Lord, did we not believe that You are the Messiah that paid for our sins through Your Sacrificial death, and rose again to life?”.
Just passing through for now, will get back in more detail later. I found this site that gives a good introduction to this historical debate.
"
Conditional security” is a theological term used in reference to the salvation of believers in Jesus Christ. It describes the supposedly tentative quality of the Christian’s salvation. In other words, a Christian’s salvation is “conditionally secure.” This begs the question: upon what condition is the believer’s salvation secure? Proponents of conditional security assert that the salvation is conditional upon remaining faithful until the very end. To use an analogy the Bible uses, the athlete must finish the race in order to receive the prize. To support this view, those who adhere to the doctrine of conditional security would point to such biblical passages as the following:
“And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:11-13)
“So therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.” (Romans 8:12-14)
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.” (Galatians 6:7-9)
These passages, and many others that could be cited, point to the conditional quality of the believer’s salvation. In each of these passages, the biblical author (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) uses conditional language (e.g., if you endure, then you will be saved) to highlight the nature of the believer’s security in Christ. In order to ensure the security of our salvation, the believer must: 1) Endure to the end; 2) live by the Spirit; 3) hold fast to the preached word; and 4) sow to the Spirit. It’s not as if the gift of salvation is lacking in any way, but the individual believer must earnestly strive to remain faithful. In the words of Paul, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12).
Given the weight of the biblical evidence, it would seem that the view of conditional security is unassailable. How could anyone argue with the notion that the believer must remain faithful until the end to secure his salvation? Yet, there is another side to this debate. This is the age-old theological debate between Arminians (those who hold to conditional security) and Calvinists (those who hold to what it called “eternal” security or Perseverance of the Saints)" Taken from: https://www.gotquestions.org/conditional-security.html
"
Conditional security” is a theological term used in reference to the salvation of believers in Jesus Christ. It describes the supposedly tentative quality of the Christian’s salvation. In other words, a Christian’s salvation is “conditionally secure.” This begs the question: upon what condition is the believer’s salvation secure? Proponents of conditional security assert that the salvation is conditional upon remaining faithful until the very end. To use an analogy the Bible uses, the athlete must finish the race in order to receive the prize. To support this view, those who adhere to the doctrine of conditional security would point to such biblical passages as the following:
“And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:11-13)
“So therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.” (Romans 8:12-14)
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.” (Galatians 6:7-9)
These passages, and many others that could be cited, point to the conditional quality of the believer’s salvation. In each of these passages, the biblical author (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) uses conditional language (e.g., if you endure, then you will be saved) to highlight the nature of the believer’s security in Christ. In order to ensure the security of our salvation, the believer must: 1) Endure to the end; 2) live by the Spirit; 3) hold fast to the preached word; and 4) sow to the Spirit. It’s not as if the gift of salvation is lacking in any way, but the individual believer must earnestly strive to remain faithful. In the words of Paul, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12).
Given the weight of the biblical evidence, it would seem that the view of conditional security is unassailable. How could anyone argue with the notion that the believer must remain faithful until the end to secure his salvation? Yet, there is another side to this debate. This is the age-old theological debate between Arminians (those who hold to conditional security) and Calvinists (those who hold to what it called “eternal” security or Perseverance of the Saints)" Taken from: https://www.gotquestions.org/conditional-security.html
I am 100% honest with others.
Though, I do not report anyone, I leave that to others, who revel in that kind of behavior.
Galatians 3:8-9
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
Saved by grace through faith in Christ alone.
It has a ring to it!
That is a very harsh and unjustified judgment. Ananias and Sapphira were a good Christian couple who were probably snared by the devil, and as a result lied to God. This can happen to any Christian, but at that stage in the history of the Church, God felt it necessary to deal with this as "the sin unto death". Which meant premature death for genuine believers. Peter did not accuse them as you have done, so you owe them an apology.
It sure looks like that is the correct reading.
I never knew you
So their works which were identical to the apostles works, were not sourced from their love of Jesus. It was their own attempt at justification because of their good works. These works of the flesh ultimately, can only be seen as a lawlessness.
I agree with what you said.
The church was in its infancy and already Christian people were behaving badly.
I say didn't say Ananias and Sapphira in particular. King Saul was the better example I had in mind, or like King Solomon, and because they did fairly heroic stuff at first.
Lol I like how you make the assertion first then ask the loaded question after.
Oh how the Proverbs are full of wisdom, a snare set before the bird in its sight never works!
Nevertheless, no, Jesus isn't dangling a carrot. You have to faith that Jesus was crucified and resurrected. If Jesus wasn't crucified and resurrected all faith is in vain.