Ministry Of Deliverance

[Roughsoul1991]

https://jakekail.com/deliverance-ministry/

Yeah, so the church I have been visiting seems to put a lot of attention to the power of demons and curses in the realm of breaking curses and delivering people from the influence of demons.

I personally do not see it as Biblical but I am making my heart humble for God to move in.

I addressed the curse issue in a created thread a few months ago.

But last Wednesday the church had the guest speaker Jake Kail who proclaims to be a minister of deliverance with the power of Christ.

He had a lady to speak about her testimony in the intro about her fear of death gripped her so badly that it became a deep fear and obsession. Well she visited one of Jake's ministry events, Jake prayed, spoke to her directly, she felt nauseous, leaned forward but couldn't bend back straight, and then she was set free from the oppression of fear.

So this is I believe just a modern fancy way of speaking about exorcisms.

What you thinking so far? Should I run? Stay? Am I acting in ignorance? Or should I take notice of my own discernment?

Of course, there is debate rather Christians are ever commanded to cast out demons and it is factual that demonic possession was only seen in unbelievers. As to know if someone is demon possessed, we only have the few cases in scriptures which seem to be quite easy to Jesus, the apostles or the Jewish exocists spot but not really told what as the reader what defines demon possession.

Regardless every possession was in a unbeliever.

But these ministers teach that these occur in believers and even though we are delivered in salvation we may not be fully delivered to live out all of God's promises or gifts.

Be careful what you pray for because I asked God to help me determine the truth on certain doctrines and now I am being bombarded with stuff like this. 😌

 

[Blain]

https://jakekail.com/deliverance-ministry/

Yeah, so the church I have been visiting seems to put a lot of attention to the power of demons and curses in the realm of breaking curses and delivering people from the influence of demons.

I personally do not see it as Biblical but I am making my heart humble for God to move in.

I addressed the curse issue in a created thread a few months ago.

But last Wednesday the church had the guest speaker Jake Kail who proclaims to be a minister of deliverance with the power of Christ.

He had a lady to speak about her testimony in the intro about her fear of death gripped her so badly that it became a deep fear and obsession. Well she visited one of Jake's ministry events, Jake prayed, spoke to her directly, she felt nauseous, leaned forward but couldn't bend back straight, and then she was set free from the oppression of fear.

So this is I believe just a modern fancy way of speaking about exorcisms.

What you thinking so far? Should I run? Stay? Am I acting in ignorance? Or should I take notice of my own discernment?

Of course, there is debate rather Christians are ever commanded to cast out demons and it is factual that demonic possession was only seen in unbelievers. As to know if someone is demon possessed, we only have the few cases in scriptures which seem to be quite easy to Jesus, the apostles or the Jewish exocists spot but not really told what as the reader what defines demon possession.

Regardless every possession was in a unbeliever.

But these ministers teach that these occur in believers and even though we are delivered in salvation we may not be fully delivered to live out all of God's promises or gifts.

Be careful what you pray for because I asked God to help me determine the truth on certain doctrines and now I am being bombarded with stuff like this. 😌

I won't lie this church sounds very unbiblical. Firstly yes you are correct only unbelievers can be demonically posessed Christians can be attacked but not posessed, secondly deliverance from fear of death even an intense fear of death is not demonic posession
It is up to you and God whether you stay or not but me personally I would not stay.
To begin with what counts as demonic posession anyways? There are certain signs to watch for and fear of death? not one of them. A horrible stench like rotting flesh speaking in tongues often speaking horrible unholy things about God and about anyone they come into contact with, things moving and flying on their own power surges happening frequently when the person is around ect. But one thing is also important to know and that is the demon has to be invited it cannot simply take over a person there are rules even in the spirit realm that even demons have to follow

 

[Dino246]

https://jakekail.com/deliverance-ministry/

Yeah, so the church I have been visiting seems to put a lot of attention to the power of demons and curses in the realm of breaking curses and delivering people from the influence of demons.

I personally do not see it as Biblical but I am making my heart humble for God to move in.

I addressed the curse issue in a created thread a few months ago.

But last Wednesday the church had the guest speaker Jake Kail who proclaims to be a minister of deliverance with the power of Christ.

He had a lady to speak about her testimony in the intro about her fear of death gripped her so badly that it became a deep fear and obsession. Well she visited one of Jake's ministry events, Jake prayed, spoke to her directly, she felt nauseous, leaned forward but couldn't bend back straight, and then she was set free from the oppression of fear.

So this is I believe just a modern fancy way of speaking about exorcisms.

What you thinking so far? Should I run? Stay? Am I acting in ignorance? Or should I take notice of my own discernment?

Of course, there is debate rather Christians are ever commanded to cast out demons and it is factual that demonic possession was only seen in unbelievers. As to know if someone is demon possessed, we only have the few cases in scriptures which seem to be quite easy to Jesus, the apostles or the Jewish exocists spot but not really told what as the reader what defines demon possession.

Regardless every possession was in a unbeliever.

But these ministers teach that these occur in believers and even though we are delivered in salvation we may not be fully delivered to live out all of God's promises or gifts.

Be careful what you pray for because I asked God to help me determine the truth on certain doctrines and now I am being bombarded with stuff like this. 😌

Toss the words "possessed" and "possession" aside; they only muddy the waters.

If the enemy has the right to oppress a Christian, he will exploit that right. We take away his rights by breaking curses, renouncing unclean attachments, repenting of sins, and forgiving others for theirs against us. We live in a fallen world, so we get "mud on our shoes" just going through life, and need to wash it off. Sometimes we need the help of others to do so.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

If you are brave enough and really want to see some demonic possession. Tell them about how cursed they are for appointing women clergy. You'll see the kingdom of Pandemonium alright. The Devil's soldiers always have to fight when their kingdom comes under attack.

Though you ought to just utterly forsake them and not look back. Escape from Jezebel like Lot escaped from Sodom, do not look back.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Toss the words "possessed" and "possession" aside; they only muddy the waters.

If the enemy has the right to oppress a Christian, he will exploit that right. We take away his rights by breaking curses, renouncing unclean attachments, repenting of sins, and forgiving others for theirs against us. We live in a fallen world, so we get "mud on our shoes" just going through life, and need to wash it off. Sometimes we need the help of others to do so.

Where is that in scripture though?

Curses were only mentioned as a judgement from God on those who turn away from God.

Define renouncing?

Help of others to cleanse us? Thought Jesus and the Holy Spirit did that.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I won't lie this church sounds very unbiblical. Firstly yes you are correct only unbelievers can be demonically posessed Christians can be attacked but not posessed, secondly deliverance from fear of death even an intense fear of death is not demonic posession
It is up to you and God whether you stay or not but me personally I would not stay.
To begin with what counts as demonic posession anyways? There are certain signs to watch for and fear of death? not one of them. A horrible stench like rotting flesh speaking in tongues often speaking horrible unholy things about God and about anyone they come into contact with, things moving and flying on their own power surges happening frequently when the person is around ect. But one thing is also important to know and that is the demon has to be invited it cannot simply take over a person there are rules even in the spirit realm that even demons have to follow

I agree but have to ask for clarification on the signs of demonic possession. From scripture it is as if Jesus and the apostles just knew someone was possessed. Every situation was different though. When Jesus cast the demons out into the pigs, the demons made it obvious by speaking back. But other times, the person was simply blind, mute or like the boy prone to convulsions. Was there evidence in scripture for these events?

stench like rotting flesh speaking in tongues often speaking horrible unholy things about God and about anyone they come into contact with, things moving and flying on their own power surges happening frequently when the person is around ect.

But yes I agree with everything else.

 

[Dino246]

Where is that in scripture though?

Curses were only mentioned as a judgement from God on those who turn away from God.

Define renouncing?

Help of others to cleanse us? Thought Jesus and the Holy Spirit did that.

I'm not going to attempt to present a thorough bibliology of spiritual warfare and personal ministry; I would suggest you read Neil Anderson on that.

God's curses are against those who turn away from Him. Human curses are spoken frequently, unthinkingly, and carelessly.

Renouncing is declaring that you no longer agree with something which you formerly agreed, or promoted, or in which you participated.

James 5:16 "Confess your sins one to another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed"... that sounds like the help of others to me.

 

[Blain]

Toss the words "possessed" and "possession" aside; they only muddy the waters.

If the enemy has the right to oppress a Christian, he will exploit that right. We take away his rights by breaking curses, renouncing unclean attachments, repenting of sins, and forgiving others for theirs against us. We live in a fallen world, so we get "mud on our shoes" just going through life, and need to wash it off. Sometimes we need the help of others to do so.

I was under very heavy spiritual attack in 2020. I knew better but I respected a user that used to go here who believed in the sinless perfection doctrine and he wanted me to follow his path and so I did or at least tried to.
But I kept falling short I kept failing I kept not living up to God's standards I was disgusted with myself I was enraged with myself I had a deep hatred for myself an unholy anger rose in me a scary deep rooted anger demonic in nature I would weep at night not daring to even ask for forgiveness I would purposely attack myself with horrible thoughts I wanted to make sure i suffered and bled inside badly for daring to be such a filthy disgusting unholy sinner. I would dream i was in hell watching myself suffer in the fires of hell from a first person point of view and was smiling loving that a filthy disgusting sinner like me was suffering knowing that God was being avenged by my horrible screams of anguish it was music to my ears.

@Lafftur saved me from all this by reminding me how I needed to simply love him and be loved. I missed how easy things used to be with him how I would pour my love and affection on him how I would always love to spend time with just soaking in his presence things were as simple and wonderful as child and father endearment and love joy and peace warmth and comfort finally after remembering all this i was free from my attacks i was once again filled with love and his warmth joy over took me once more.

But I will never forget that hatred and that absolute gleee in my suffering how i wanted to make sure i bled inside and never recovered people say negative thoughts are demonic attacks things like normal negative thoughts that we all have when they have no idea how severe a demonic attack can really be the absolute hatred that comes with it the joy in the suffering the blood lust it is so horrible.

 

[Dino246]

I was under very heavy spiritual attack in 2020. I knew better but I respected a user that used to go here who believed in the sinless perfection doctrine and he wanted me to follow his path and so I did or at least tried to.
But I kept falling short I kept failing I kept not living up to God's standards I was disgusted with myself I was enraged with myself I had a deep hatred for myself an unholy anger rose in me a scary deep rooted anger demonic in nature I would weep at night not daring to even ask for forgiveness I would purposely attack myself with horrible thoughts I wanted to make sure i suffered and bled inside badly for daring to be such a filthy disgusting unholy sinner. I would dream i was in hell watching myself suffer in the fires of hell from a first person point of view and was smiling loving that a filthy disgusting sinner like me was suffering knowing that God was being avenged by my horrible screams of anguish it was music to my ears.

@Lafftur saved me from all this by reminding me how I needed to simply love him and be loved. I missed how easy things used to be with him how I would pour my love and affection on him how I would always love to spend time with just soaking in his presence things were as simple and wonderful as child and father endearment and love joy and peace warmth and comfort finally after remembering all this i was free from my attacks i was once again filled with love and his warmth joy over took me once more.

But I will never forget that hatred and that absolute gleee in my suffering how i wanted to make sure i bled inside and never recovered people say negative thoughts are demonic attacks things like normal negative thoughts that we all have when they have no idea how severe a demonic attack can really be the absolute hatred that comes with it the joy in the suffering the blood lust it is so horrible.

Glad you are free! Praise the Lord!

 

[Blain]

I agree but have to ask for clarification on the signs of demonic possession. From scripture it is as if Jesus and the apostles just knew someone was possessed. Every situation was different though. When Jesus cast the demons out into the pigs, the demons made it obvious by speaking back. But other times, the person was simply blind, mute or like the boy prone to convulsions. Was there evidence in scripture for these events?



But yes I agree with everything else.

Sadly there isn't a lot of scripture on demonic posession but when i have encountered demons which hasn't happened very often a couple thing i have noticed aside from a strong presence is things move around and power surges the rest is mainly signs from documentaries i have seen so take them with a grain of salt.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

If you are brave enough and really want to see some demonic possession. Tell them about how cursed they are for appointing women clergy. You'll see the kingdom of Pandemonium alright. The Devil's soldiers always have to fight when their kingdom comes under attack.

Though you ought to just utterly forsake them and not look back. Escape from Jezebel like Lot escaped from Sodom, do not look back.

The overseer or main pastor is male.

But they do have females on staff and the lead pastor does sometimes let women give the Word. He does call his wife a pastor. But he does most the sermons.

The word pastor seems to almost now be used to universally speak of anyone who can get up in front of people to preach. But overseer in scripture has much more to do than just a pastor who preaches. Really the gift is called a teacher.

 

[Blain]

Glad you are free! Praise the Lord!

Yes paise God indeed demonic attacks are no joke and i couldn't fight it on my own it nearly took me out. But people who say they have been under attack from things like negative thoughts I question because we all have negative thoughts some of us struggle with very negative thoughts daily but that doesn't mean we are under attack it is just part of our depressiona dn anxiety. No true demonic attacks are terrifying and the hatred is deep very deep

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Sadly there isn't a lot of scripture on demonic posession but when i have encountered demons which hasn't happened very often a couple thing i have noticed aside from a strong presence is things move around and power surges the rest is mainly signs from documentaries i have seen so take them with a grain of salt.

Gotcha, okay I was just checking because I have not experienced any of these things so I only have the Bible to go off of.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

The overseer or main pastor is male.

But they do have females on staff and the lead pastor does sometimes let women give the Word. He does call his wife a pastor. But he does most the sermons.

The word pastor seems to almost now be used to universally speak of anyone who can get up in front of people to preach. But overseer in scripture has much more to do than just a pastor who preaches. Really the gift is called a teacher.

Just because the high priest is male does not mean that the women can be in charge of sacrifices, songs, or the spoons and the bowls.

Forsake them utterly. Do not look back.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I'm not going to attempt to present a thorough bibliology of spiritual warfare and personal ministry; I would suggest you read Neil Anderson on that.

God's curses are against those who turn away from Him. Human curses are spoken frequently, unthinkingly, and carelessly.

Renouncing is declaring that you no longer agree with something which you formerly agreed, or promoted, or in which you participated.

James 5:16 "Confess your sins one to another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed"... that sounds like the help of others to me.

So renouncing is just repenting?

I have studied spiritual warfare in great depth as to why I question the interpretation of the doctrine in the ministry of deliverance.

Human curses have no power over a Christian and OT curses are as you said spoken to the Israelites who abandoned God. Unbelievers basically. Nothing is mentioned about the Christian needing to break curses in the NT. So I just wonder why these folks connect that to the Christian?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Just because the high priest is male does not mean that the women can be in charge of sacrifices, songs, or the spoons and the bowls.

Forsake them utterly. Do not look back.

What about the deacon and deaconess in scripture who's job was to help in those things? Deacon was also not a role of overseer but a different position.

 

[Blain]

Gotcha, okay I was just checking because I have not experienced any of these things so I only have the Bible to go off of.

The things moving and the power surges are from what i have experienced the documenteries were mainly from testimonies of Catholic priests one of them actuaslly lost his liscense because he did an exorcism against the will of the catholic church but saved a little girl. Honestlkythe catholic church seems to mainly deal with this type of thing though not very often anymore since much can be treated and explained away

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

What about the deacon and deaconess in scripture who's job was to help in those things? Deacon was also not a role of overseer but a different position.

Same thing. The priest class must be male. On top of this the men also must also be strict monogamists and rule their family with gravity. They cannot be whores nor can their wives be whores. This means they had to have been virgins that got married. They cannot have these wanton emotional children. Beyond their mundane duties the priests and their wives serve as the living symbol of Christ and the Bride.

So already what does this church portray Christ and the Bride as? That Christ is a cuckold building up a harem and the Bride is a feminist Jezebel? God reject their madness and folly! Great is the curse upon them. Forsake them utterly. Don't look back. I think you even know it from your original topic about it and how your spirit senses something is greatly amiss, and that's a good thing, God is trying to help you escape just like Lot.

 

[Blain]

Same thing. The priest class must be male. On top of this the men also must also be strict monogamists and rule their family with gravity. They cannot be whores nor can their wives be whores. This means they had to have been virgins that got married. They cannot have these wanton emotional children. Beyond their mundane duties the priests and their wives serve as the living symbol of Christ and the Bride.

So already what does this church portray Christ and the Bride as? That Christ is a cuckold building up a harem and the Bride is a feminist Jezebel? God reject their madness and folly! Great is the curse upon them. Forsake them utterly. Don't look back. I think you even know it from your original topic about it and how your spirit senses something is greatly amiss, and that's a good thing, God is trying to help you escape just like Lot.

My word you certainly have a lot of rules for the ideal church of choice don't you? Woman cannot rule over men ok i have heard this argument before but they have to be virgins no emotional children? where in scripture do you base that from?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

My word you certainly have a lot of rules for the ideal church of choice don't you? Woman cannot rule over men ok i have heard this argument before but they have to be virgins no emotional children? where in scripture do you base that from?

They're not my rules, I didn't write them. You can find them in the Old Testament and in the New Testament as well. 1 Timothy 3 is a good chapter about this from the New Testament.

There is also of course numerous examples of those that that thought they knew better than God, and break the set up that God ordained, and the prophesies about the people doing these things they do today, and for a certainty all of them are very cursed.