Guys and Gals here is some truth
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lol naw it wasn’t my point it was a question to You.
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:”
Acts 2:17 KJV
what if God had filled them with his spirit and given them the gift of prophecy ? They should shut up your saying and keep silent and not accept the gift of prophecy God gave them ? And what if the husband isn’t believer ? What if she’s unmarried ?
So Mary probably should have kept silent when she was the first person commanded to preach the resurrection to the male disciples.
and Priscilla she shouldnt have helped teach appolos more thoroughly in the ways of the lord or went on Missions with Paul.
If women keep Silent having understanding and spiritual gifts of ministry woe to them . If they are called and shout from the rooftops a blessing to them
You are very close to quoting the Word
why are you speaking ? I’m assuming your female you have no right speaking wait for your husband to come explain everything to you but shhhh your female
just trying to offer a sarcastic point
Why don't you look for a Cowboy Church near you?
Or, check with the local motorcycle club to see if they have Church Services?
I can see how all that preaching/teaching of "loving others" and "being kind" to your neighbors can make one feel "girlish." Huh?
Now, the One who taught us those things was God the Son! And, given what He sacrificed, well........maybe playing Lenord Skinner, or Willie Nelson songs at the end of Service wasn't what He had in mind?
Jesus washed the feet of the disciples.........BOY! I bet my bottom dollar you would never do such a thing?
It's going to be a very bad day for the church of Jezebel when my Lord Jesus Christ shows up with the Sword.
Good words to ponder over.
Not sure about Bethel or Hillsong which songs they sing. I only listen to lyrics and not who wrote the song. I find God even in secular music. Which is not surprising when God created the universe that gives people the concepts and the artistic mind to create. Anyways idk what songs they sing other than contemporary Christian which the lyrics sound Biblical to me. Not as rich as a hyme but also not boring on a organ or piano with the choir.
Does church growth objectively conclude that a church is going the wrong way? What date in history did the "Great Falling Away” begin? How do we reconcile national or local revivals?
Has a sermon spoke to me? No. But they have my wife and kids. The sermon wasn't theological inaccurate other sometimes I wish he would be more real on the topics of healing and prosperity. He always shows faith for healing and prosperity but in the sermons nevers get into what about when healing or prosperity doesn't come. (Well except his sermon on curses which was inaccurate)
Based off of what I just said many would jump to this is a prosperity gospel preacher. But I'm not so sure yet because he has not been open enough to really objectively make that claim as I have only been there a few months.
Do I need a rich sermon? Not really because I can feed myself but if his sermons connect to new believers or infant Christians then great. I can be alright with good worship and good community. But I'm also there to specifically wrestle with my theological understandings of the gifts in healing, tongues, and prophecy.
Actually just healing and tongues because I have seen prophecy before and know it to be real.
I have always taken the women be silent statement, that is in His Word, to mean do not interrupt the service. Just my understanding ... Forums are not the service although most of us are in The Body of Christ . That is why Mary was not out of line to proclaim the Resurrection of Christ.why are you speaking ? I’m assuming your female you have no right speaking wait for your husband to come explain everything to you but shhhh your female
Bore and raised in church literally lived in a couple churches.. i have seen a few women pastors every one is just wacked in some way. I do not have a problem with God's patriarchal design . As i see it too many men have stepped back, got lazy in the churches and let the women take control . The male role is not more or less important then the female role they are just different. An apple is a fruit and orange is a fruit.
Your sarcasm made me smile..
Why don't you look for a Cowboy Church near you?
Or, check with the local motorcycle club to see if they have Church Services?
I can see how all that preaching/teaching of "loving others" and "being kind" to your neighbors can make one feel "girlish." Huh?
Now, the One who taught us those things was God the Son! And, given what He sacrificed, well........maybe playing Lenord Skinner, or Willie Nelson songs at the end of Service wasn't what He had in mind?
Jesus washed the feet of the disciples.........BOY! I bet my bottom dollar you would never do such a thing?
You seem to misunderstood my post to ad hominem and not speak on merits.
A Christian can be called and gifted in many areas so let me ask you, are you gifted in teaching children, watching the infants, or finances in the clergy? Do you feel called to do any of these things?
Jesus was very loving and caring which isn't my argument on feminization. Because Jesus was also masculine, spoke truth to power, cleanse his house of thieves, self sacrificial even to death, stood up for the weak, debated and destroyed every argument, even called the religious elite vipers and children of Satan, He tells us to judge but not hypocritically, to even reprove our brother or sister, and His apostle Paul even casted a sinful man out of church to be handed over to Satan.
So there is a Jesus who wasn't Barney.
Also I enjoy the thought of emotion vs spiritual.
I'll have to think this one over because in my experience my burning bush experiences are not everyday experiences and that is what I want to know. Do these people experience God like this daily or is it just emotion.
Ah, you hit the nail on the head. Much of the Western Protestant church has become very feminized.
Nothing wrong with the emotional music, etc, but please don't take it into the mens' small group of all places!. And men meeting at a coffee shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have always taken the women be silent statement, that is in His Word, to mean do not interrupt the service. Just my understanding ... Forums are not the service although most of us are in The Body of Christ . That is why Mary was not out of line to proclaim the Resurrection of Christ.
Bore and raised in church literally lived in a couple churches.. i have seen a few women pastors every one is just wacked in some way. I do not have a problem with God's patriarchal design . As i see it too many men have stepped back, got lazy in the churches and let the women take control . The male role is not more or less important then the female role they are just different. An apple is a fruit and orange is a fruit.
Your sarcasm made me smile..
I’m so glad you smiled and understood my intent there
just messing with ya given the subject matter lol the thing is in the Bible church wasn’t at any certain place but church is wherever Christians gather to discuss and fellowship together and any learning of the scriptures church is the people. Both male And female
in those days they just sent from house to house and gathered everywhere they could d were told that the prophets were the ones to speak and everyone else was to listen and weigh what was said. We know also that thy re are female prophets after the day of pentocost
“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:”
Acts 2:16-17 KJV
“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation.
Let all things be done unto edifying. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”
1 Corinthians 14:26, 29, 34 KJV
So what of a female prophet ? Should she not speak even though she’s been annointed to prophecy ?
have you also noticed that Paul teaches this and it seems to contradict the other
Forminstance shat if a woman is baptized ?
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
does that apply to both men and women do women also get baptized and receive the spirit of Christ ? Do women have ministrations among the church ? Of course all of us do
there’s a point where we’re meant to stop identifying with our flesh and gender and start identifying with the son of God both male and female
“For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
2 Corinthians 5:14-17
i Myself believe that Paul’s doctrine matured from identifying women this way as if they are still Under the curse of eve
So His logic for the submission of women
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
1 Timothy 2:11-15 KJV
that’s the curse of eve it wasn’t until they both transgressed that eve was out in subjection to Adam it wasn’t so beforehand
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
Genesis 3:16
yet later Paul explains when baptized we died to the curses of sin. He still is holding all Women to account for what eve did , yet he’s saying man has been delivered from tbier curse by grace but women need to bear children and be silent in full subjection and work thier way through good behavior to salvstion.
yet later he says “ there’s no difference between male and female when you get baptized your all the same all of you
Have been clothed with Christ “
it seems to me that Paul’s doctrine grew and matured from the law still showing through to the gospel bekng fully preached
we should look at the spirit and not the flesh gender is a flesh thing the spirit is the believer new creation no
Longer under the curses of adam
And eve for transgression because thier sins have already been remitted in Christ through baptism
so why are women still held under the curse of eve me need to bear children and do all the extra submission to
Man when It was always part of the curse for sin ? But the curse has been taken away yet , she’s still
Identified in eve rather than now identified in Christ ?
I have told this story before ....Johnathan called asking me to come to Bible study Wednesday night . Ya feel like ya should go if the pastor calls ya. I asked Johnathan; Wednesday is Valentine's day you sure you are going to have Bible Study ? Yeah we are in Mark 4 . Johnathan you sure? yup . OK see ya this evening... you guessed it no Bible study the women had put together a cute game this was a young church they put together a Newly Wed game.. Nothing wrong in having the game it was Godly and fun. But the over stepping of the pastor by his wife and her friends was not good. He quietly apologized i told him i understand.... Apples are apples oranges are oranges .
This will be my last on this topic as it only touches on the OP ..I’m so glad you smiled and understood my intent there
the thing is in the Bible church wasn’t at any certain place but church is wherever Christians gather to discuss and fellowship together and any learning of the scriptures church is the people. Both male And female
in those days they just sent from house to house and gathered everywhere they could d were told that the prophets were the ones to speak and everyone else was to listen and weigh what was said. We know also that thy re are female prophets after the day of pentocost
“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:”
Acts 2:16-17 KJV
“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation.
Let all things be done unto edifying. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”
1 Corinthians 14:26, 29, 34 KJV
So what of a female prophet ? Should she not speak even though she’s been annointed to prophecy ?
have you also noticed that Paul teaches this and it seems to contradict the other
Forminstance shat if a woman is baptized ?
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
does that apply to both men and women do women also get baptized and receive the spirit of Christ ? Do women have ministrations among the church ? Of course all of us do
there’s a point where we’re meant to stop identifying with our flesh and gender and start identifying with the son of God both male and female
“For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
2 Corinthians 5:14-17
i Myself believe that Paul’s doctrine matured from identifying women this way as if they are still Under the curse of eve
So His logic for the submission of women
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
1 Timothy 2:11-15 KJV
that’s the curse of eve it wasn’t until they both transgressed that eve was out in subjection to Adam it wasn’t so beforehand
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
Genesis 3:16
yet later Paul explains when baptized we died to the curses of sin. He still is holding all Women to account for what eve did , yet he’s saying man has been delivered from tbier curse by grace but women need to bear children and be silent in full subjection and work thier way through good behavior to salvstion.
yet later he says “ there’s no difference between male and female when you get baptized your all the same all of you
Have been clothed with Christ “
it seems to me that Paul’s doctrine grew and matured from the law still showing through to the gospel bekng fully preached
we should look at the spirit and not the flesh gender is a flesh thing the spirit is the believer new creation no
Longer under the curses of adam
And eve for transgression because thier sins have already been remitted in Christ through baptism
so why are women still held under the curse of eve me need to bear children and do all the extra submission to
Man when It was always part of the curse for sin ? But the curse has been taken away yet , she’s still
Identified in eve rather than now identified in Christ ?
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
1Pe 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
yeah the unfaithful chirch for sure how do you reconcile this
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
does this apply to women also ? And how does it reconcile here
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
1 Timothy 2:12-15 KJV
do women have to do extra work to be saved also and they aren’t meant to get baptized and be filled with the spirit of Gods son and start identifying as children of God no longer under the curse of adam
And eve because they died to thier sins ?
if a women is baptized and receives remission of sins , why are we holding women under the curse of Eves sin still ? Eve was only made subject to Adam after they transgressed it’s a result of sin. Of sin is remitted we’re back here because it’s about new creation not the old
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
Genesis 1:27 KJV
after they transgressed eve is out into subjection
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
Genesis 3:16 KJV
if our sins are remitted , so is the curse for sin d man and women are back to the image of God bekng a team rather than a ruler and a subject. Look at Priscilla and Aquila a seccesfuk husband and wife team spreading the gospel and teaching people like Apollo’s the ways of the lord , joining Paul on journeys and missions in his ministry
if women are still
Under the curse So is man and our sins haven’t been remitted in Christ and we’re all doomed but if it’s all true why hold Eves transgression over women who repent and get baptized into Christ where they are a new creation and no longer held as the old creation under sin and it’s curse which for eve was painful childbearing and subjection to her husband
if a woman is equipped and called to prophecy or teach it’s the message that matters not the flesh appearance of gender.
we’ve been forgiven for sin we aren’t held to what Adam and Eve did anymore we’ve been converted from that profile state and redeemed to new creations not identified by the flesh but by the spirit of Jesus Christ
amen I see the point there and agree but does this require a woman to keep Silence ? Or speak wisely and honor her husband choose the right time to speak ?
I can’t see how this
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
reconciles with the seperation of make
And female as ranks one above another one in subjection the other in servitude based on gender because he makes the point “ if you e been baptized into Christ there’s no make Or female but your all the seed of Abraham and hiers according to abrahams promise “
if we aren’t supposed to make a distinction in Christ beteeen male
And female but consider all to be converted to christ and the promise I can’t understand how that then reconciles with the other making a huge important distinction based on gender
it makes sense if we say we’re still
Under the curse of adam And eve but not if we’re baptized into Christ and the curse is gone with our now remitted sins
but it’s only My own thinking could be wrong I sure have heard a lot of women say a lot of annointed things that led me to Understand things better than I had before though I know that’s true. I would hate to have ignored good spiritual
Understanding in my life because it came from a woman’s mouth.
I’m not sure though it makes sense to me that our sins are remitted in baptism and we have been redeemed from the flesh identity and curse of Adam and Eve into the blessing of Christ and redemption
but that being said i do Believe in a marriage situation that each has thier role. Ot as a master and servant though but as two become one who serve one another in love .
the man has his manly roles the women her womanly roles in life and marriage for sure the man is the head of the body of the marriage and should have his wife’s full respect , but she also should have his full respect.
whe. Talking about salvstion and Christianity sharing our spiritual gifts ect I’m not sure gender matters but whether we’re equipped by the lord bekng a male
Or female
Ah, you hit the nail on the head. Much of the Western Protestant church has become very feminized.
Nothing wrong with the emotional music, etc, but please don't take it into the mens' small group of all places!. And men meeting at a coffee shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A church of skinny jean men even the pastor who is either in their late 30s or early 40s.
I'm not a stickler for changing fashion or difference in culture but it just isn't my cup of tea.
I mean neither is kissing another dude on the cheek for a greeting like Judas did. But I suppose some folks just find them comfortable much like the Scotts in skirts.
This is probably why I connect better with the older generations.
Gender only matters if you interpret Paul's words for the overseer and his organizational structure he gave to the church of Corinth.
The church structure in some translations list that a woman should remain silent but other translations say wife.
In context, wife is best understood when speaking of a marriage. The husband having the head ranking to address certain matters. Of course, that is within the man's discretion. He may not have a problem with his wife speaking her mind.
Now the other issue involves all male pronouns for the role of Overseer and Deacon.
You do find one female mentioned for being a Deaconess which is the correct translation in Greek. Now either Paul contradicts himself or the role of Deacon could be both genders.
But that has always made me question why the all male description in one letter and to mention a female in the next letter?
So that makes me question the all male pronouns for overseer. But I also think about the disciples of the apostles and writings of the early church fathers seem to also fit the male pronoun for a overseer. In less we have evidence of early church mothers.
But that was also the culture for males to be dominant. Not saying that matters or not.
Then we also have the movement of the Spirit. Can the Spirit move if a woman held a main pastor position. Will the fruit be evident or not?
Guess that would be me
Precious friend:
Biblically "the Great falling away" was actually in Paul's own day:
2Ti_1:15 "This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia
be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes."
God Also Inspired Paul for our "last days":
1Ti_4:1 "Now The Spirit Speaketh Expressly, that in the latter times some shall
depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
This may be helpful for the "healing not coming": God's Grace Word For infirmities
As for the prosperity, please "Consider what Paul says, for understanding"
(2 Timothy 2:7):
1Ti_6:9 "But they that will be rich fall into temptation
and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts,
which drown men in destruction and perdition."
(Not JUST money?)
1Ti_6:17 "Charge them that are rich in this world, that they
be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in The
Living God, Who Giveth us RICHLY all things to enjoy"
1Ti_6:18 "That they do good, that they be RICH in good works,
ready to distribute, willing to communicate;" (cp Ephesians 4:28)
Compared to:
Rom_10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for The Same LORD Over all Is RICH Unto all that call upon Him."
2Co_8:9
"For ye know The GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He Was RICH,
yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through His poverty might be RICH."
Eph_2:4 "But God, Who Is RICH In Mercy, for
His Great LOVE Wherewith He LOVED us,"
+IF we are "looking for the temporal" only, we Really May be missing?:
Eph 1:3 "Blessed be The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who Hath
Blessed us [RICHLY?] With all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
+
"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in Glory." (Colossians 3:1-4) Amen?
GRACE And Peace...
PS:
Please let me know IF the Grace Word For infirmities was helpful for
"more understanding" with your theology, and IF you wish to discuss
this more, According To The Scriptures, ok?
Precious friend:
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
Omg lol this is what equality looks like. I wouldn't trust a plumber in skinny jeans lol.K-Von
