Confusion over the "sign" gifts?

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Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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#41
No one is denying that God performs miracles of healing daily. However we are talking about MIRACLE WORKERS in all the churches of the world performing miracles daily -- apart from prayer. Just as Peter and John caused that lame man outside the temple to be instantly walking and leaping and praising God -- "just like that".
I am not sure that it happened daily in every church. And Peter and John pointed them away from themselves and to faith in Jesus and His Name. So as soon as people looked at them as celebrity miracle workers Peter was quick to correct that thinking. He told them Not to think of them as having "some great power" Jesus was the focus, and faith in His Name.

But I do think these things do happen world wide today but they don't get reported on the news so you don't hear about them like you think you should. And the believer praying for people is never the focus celebrity, and should not become some famous dude because of it.

They happen where there is faith. There was more faith when Jesus was on the scene and after when the church first began and these miracles caused more faith and this "peak time of faith" probably saw more of these things than today because we are dealing with centuries of unbelief and teachings that talk people out of faith for it. They don't happen as much today because so few have faith for it.

Faith in Jesus will move mountains and change the world. Let us increase our Faith in Jesus today.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#42
If I'm getting what you said right, you're saying you basically believe it but you haven't seen it yet. Is this true?
I'm saying I'm not a cessationist. I don't believe it's explicitly stated in scripture that signs and wonders will cease before the Lord comes. So I don't have the confidence that cessationists seem to have.

But yes, all I see at this time are pseudo signs and miracles.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,251
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#43
I did not ask if you prayed. I asked if you actually performed a miracle. I have already spoken about the prayer of faith for healing. We are talking about miracle workers -- signs, wonders, and miracles.
You just can't see the forest for the hedge of trees you planted, can you?

I'm praying some day your eyes will be opened, but until then you're going on ignore. There's just no helping the willfully ignorant.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#44
Mark 16:17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
I didn't see any Bible version say, "And these signs will accompany those who believe until the Bible is written."
amen there’s little to no faith left in the world is the issue everyone comes to thier own conclusions and calls it faith
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#45
You just can't see the forest for the hedge of trees you planted, can you? I'm praying some day your eyes will be opened, but until then you're going on ignore. There's just no helping the willfully ignorant.
This is hilarious.

You were supposed to provide actual evidence of "signs, wonders, and miracles" done by the hands of modern-day miracle workers. Instead you have made an ad hominem attack on myself. Just goes to show that you have no evidence. Once again, the prayers of faith bring about divine healing every day. But that is exactly what we are NOT talking about.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#46
Many years ago, in the 90s, my wife had a workout partner who got breast cancer. It was stage 4 and she had the Chemo. lost the hair, and everything looked bleak. She was Catholic. She knew that we were Assemblies of God and she did not know much about it but she knew we believed in praying for the sick and that miracles can still happen like what she read in the bible.

She invited all her friends over to her house to pray for her one evening. She asked me to lead it. Which makes sense because her friends were a mixed bag and I would say none of them really believed she was going to be miraculously healed that night. They wanted to offer those, "We have to accept the will of God" type prayers of doubt and unbelief.

I was able to figure that out by giving a time of teaching through the scriptures on healing. As I read scripture after scripture you could see faith rising in her and her husbands eyes but disgust in some of the others. But this changed after more and more scriptures were read in context.

By the time I laid out the many scriptures that promised healing by the atonement there were many who were eager to believe. Some were still wanting to put their "but not everyone gets healed 2 cents in" so I had to do what Jesus and Peter did.

I boldly looked at everyone in the room and I slowly told them. "If anyone here does not believe that Sarah is going to be healed of cancer tonight by divine miracle of God in the Name of Jesus I would ask you to please leave the room before we pray. I want only those who believe it is actually going to happen to stay and pray in agreement for her to be healed TONIGHT. Not some day, not after she is dead, TONIGHT!"

Some were smiling with faith, some were smiling with a smirk, some would not make eye contact. But no one left.

We prayed for her a simple faith filled prayer that she was healed tonight by the stripes Jesus bore on the cross and my prayer was full of scripture to instill faith.

Then soon after that I left because I told her I don't want to get into any discussions with some "theologian wannabe" who wants to argue about it and speak doubt. She was so grateful and her eyes were full of joy. You could tell something had happened.

The next week she called my wife and told her that she was in remission. That is what the Doctors say when you get healed from stage 4 cancer over night when praying Pentecostals teach you the scriptures and you put faith in them and in what Jesus promised. They call that remission. LOL. Hallelujah! I'll take it.

She was so thankful that I did it the way I did it. We all learned something that night.

I share it with you because I believe that sometimes people don't get healed because they have been talked out of believing for it.

And I don't care if people get angry with me for saying it. It says so in the bible. We don't need to be worried about false outrage from those who want to make it a point of contention. There are plenty of verses that emphasized the importance of faith about healing.

I would not tell someone, that you are not healed because you don't believe. That will never be my place. I don't think like that about anyone. I don't know the heart.

My point is that faith is critical and we know that from reading all the scriptures about it. So therefore we should take the time to build up someone's faith with scripture promises until we perceive that they have faith to be healed, and then pray for them.

Many just pray for people with no discussion at all and many people they pray for have no expectation of healing, they aren't even asking for it, instead they are asking that God comfort them and help them endure it. That is what they get.

So we have to take the time to teach scriptures to instill faith for a miracle before we pray for one. Then we will see these things happening today.

I do it. I do see signs. I do see miracles. I do have medical proof. I won't argue about it with people who don't believe. We don't have time for all that. A Storm is Coming and we need to fulfill the mission of "release" from the bondages of satan that Jesus sent us on. Not many will get up off their couches and from in front of their TVs and Go. But those who do see the same signs today when they preach the full Gospel.

I agree that many so called "Pentecostals" are just talk. They say they believe these things but they don't really Go forth and do them. There will only be a remnant that actually live what Jesus preached. He came to call those who would go all the way. They are always the few.
“So we have to take the time to teach scriptures to instill faith for a miracle before we pray for one. Then we will see these things happening today.”

eggzactly


“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith is waining mightily on earth because we’re parting from the word and trusting in what he said to the church

“I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:8‬ ‭

not if we keep rejecting and altering his word that creates faith thkngs are getting dire on earth but this

preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

from the truth of the gospel and word of Christ that gives us saving faith to lies meant to lead us away from the word of faith . Will lead to this which drains faith from us d creates barriers for when we hear Gods truth

“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As we turn our ears away from Christ Jesus word we are turning our hearts away from faith
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
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#47
With the prophets and apostles, they had an extremely difficult existence. Hated, dishonored, beaten, lonely, and many endured horrible deaths. I find it interesting so many today can claim to have the same abilities, but lack the laden continuity of such a calling.
I was reading through the pages as i have been away for a couple of days and i just had to respond to this real quick
1 Cor 14:32 - the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Iow, the Holy Spirit may lead, but we may falter and not follow.

Which is different from when we try to force a gift the Spirit is not leading us to. That seldom ends well.

Paul taught the gifts and they are in action today. However, I think Paul cautioned that he'd rather we not act in them, than act incorrectly (1 Cor 14).

Thank God for the gift of discernment! (If only more of us would use it ;))
Yes it is one of my greatest fears to be a false prophet or to misuse the gift of prophecy so rather than move in it by own accord like a good soldier i wait for the call to act i wait for the flow then follow it. I think that most who understand what it actually means to be a prophet understand this but it also seems to be far and few in between because we have so many who claim to have the gifting yet look at the mess we have with them is it any wonder people don't believe in prophets anymore?

Now as far as the (sign gifts) go I understand that some believe they are not for today but am i the only one who remembers that Jesus said that anything is possible for one who believes? if they are not for today then one should not be able to do them yet i know of someone who was able to merely because he layed his hand on his wife prayed for her healing and walked away a simple thing no chanting or lengthy prayer no verses thrown around to empower the ritual or healing just a simple act of faith
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,251
722
113
#48
I was reading through the pages as i have been away for a couple of days and i just had to respond to this real quick
Yes it is one of my greatest fears to be a false prophet or to misuse the gift of prophecy so rather than move in it by own accord like a good soldier i wait for the call to act i wait for the flow then follow it. I think that most who understand what it actually means to be a prophet understand this but it also seems to be far and few in between because we have so many who claim to have the gifting yet look at the mess we have with them is it any wonder people don't believe in prophets anymore?

Now as far as the (sign gifts) go I understand that some believe they are not for today but am i the only one who remembers that Jesus said that anything is possible for one who believes? if they are not for today then one should not be able to do them yet i know of someone who was able to merely because he layed his hand on his wife prayed for her healing and walked away a simple thing no chanting or lengthy prayer no verses thrown around to empower the ritual or healing just a simple act of faith
Simple and humble is the way God works. The more people put on the dog and pony show, the more suspicious I become of them.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
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#49
I was reading through the pages as i have been away for a couple of days and i just had to respond to this real quick
Yes it is one of my greatest fears to be a false prophet or to misuse the gift of prophecy so rather than move in it by own accord like a good soldier i wait for the call to act i wait for the flow then follow it. I think that most who understand what it actually means to be a prophet understand this but it also seems to be far and few in between because we have so many who claim to have the gifting yet look at the mess we have with them is it any wonder people don't believe in prophets anymore?

Now as far as the (sign gifts) go I understand that some believe they are not for today but am i the only one who remembers that Jesus said that anything is possible for one who believes? if they are not for today then one should not be able to do them yet i know of someone who was able to merely because he layed his hand on his wife prayed for her healing and walked away a simple thing no chanting or lengthy prayer no verses thrown around to empower the ritual or healing just a simple act of faith
Here is the PART that most completely miss, the Scripture clearly states the duration of the Holy Spirit Baptism and His Gifts.

Religion always does this = self inflicted ignorance thru unbelief.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#52
Part of the problem is that in the various signs and wonders groups the bar for what constitutes a wonder or miracle has been set very low. So when someone says they've witnessed miracles what they're saying is they've seen people with back pain become pain free; or, someone with marital problems now has a healthy relationship; or, someone with addiction has been set free. While these are all well and good, I'd hardly call them miracles in the order of those born blind seeing or amputees growing new limbs.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
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#53
Part of the problem is that in the various signs and wonders groups the bar for what constitutes a wonder or miracle has been set very low. So when someone says they've witnessed miracles what they're saying is they've seen people with back pain become pain free; or, someone with marital problems now has a healthy relationship; or, someone with addiction has been set free. While these are all well and good, I'd hardly call them miracles in the order of those born blind seeing or amputees growing new limbs.
Apparently you've never been an addict before, neither have you been in an abusive relationship. Anything God does that man can't do is miraculous. Being saved is the greatest miracle to me.
Don't worry, though... when you need a miracle bad enough, you will believe for it.;)
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#54
Apparently you've never been an addict before, neither have you been in an abusive relationship;)
I've been in bondage to addictions; I've struggled with more things than I have time to relate. But thankfully I was set free from them. As I said, this is well and good and I'm very thankful, but I'd never describe it as a miracle. It was a healing of sorts, but certainly not a miraculous healing like growing a new limb or being raised from the dead.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
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654
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#55
I've been in bondage to addictions; I've struggled with more things than I have time to relate. But thankfully I was set free from them. As I said, this is well and good and I'm very thankful, but I'd never describe it as a miracle. It was a healing of sorts, but certainly not a miraculous healing like growing a new limb or being raised from the dead.
Like I said, when you're put in a dire situation you will want to believe for one. That may be what it takes to get you to believe.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#58
When you lay down your critical spirit, we can talk. Not till then.
I'm not trying to be critical but I can see how it might have sounded like it. I'm just looking for clarification of your words.

You said: "Like I said, when you're put in a dire situation you will want to believe for one. That may be what it takes to get you to believe."

When you say "one," I assume you mean miracle. But what do you mean when you say "miracle," what are we talking about? And "that." What exactly is that which will get me to believe?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,230
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New Zealand
#59
This is the thing in these kinds of discussions. If I may chime in. The definitions of what we are talking about is not the same.

We need to define what exactly the sign were biblically, and also what constitutes a biblical miracle.

Part of the reason I believe the sign gifts have passed and fulfilled there purpose is the difference between what biblically they are and what people call them now.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,206
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Midwest
#60
Part of the problem is that in the various signs and wonders groups the bar for what constitutes a wonder or miracle has been set very low.
Thanks for that Great observation; it is Certainly Much Different than
What Jesus Taught, According to the "great commission" they claim
they are "believing AND obeying," Correct? i.e.:

Joh_14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me,​
the works that I do shall he do also; AND GREATER works than​
these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."​
+
Certainly Much Different than God's GRACE Word For our infirmities!

GRACE And Peace...