Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hi Crossnote, just saw your post. Will reply to you subsequently. Last post was written thinking of Seeking-Christ's response.

God Bless.

 

[crossnote]

I think it's sad that we still don't know how to get saved. What I mean by that is, the topic of salvation keeps coming up. Normally i hear about it on youtube. People discuss and argue their points. Same Bible, and yet people still keep coming up with other ways to get saved. Nobody knows what to do with works, sin, eternal security, or conditional security, and the list goes on! I guess I'll just haft to wait and see if God will put me in heaven or hell.

Our best works earns us hell. Only Christ work saves. I definitely wouldn’t take my theology from YouTube, it’s a quagmire of confusion.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

Our best works earns us hell. Only Christ work saves. I definitely wouldn’t take my theology from YouTube, it’s a quagmire of confusion.

I never said I took my theology from youtube. Nor would I take my theology from this website. It's also a bunch of confusion.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I pretty much agree with your post #196 but in this post I would have to ask, “Where in Scripture do you find ‘an increase of justification by good works’?

Romans 4:6 KJV
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

When it comes to our justification Christ fulfills all righteousness and all we can offer is our sin, our repentance and our faith.

Well, in James 2 which I cited, among others. If you see Gen 15:6 "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.", Abraham became righteous by Grace through Faith at that time. Then, later in Gen 22:10 "10Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son." So this was a Good Work done post Justification, several chapters later. And what does St. James say?

"21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God." (Jam 2:21-23, NKJV)

From this passage, we learn three things:

(1) Abraham, who was already justified by faith in Gen 15, was further justified, or received an increase in righteousness, in Gen 22, for his work of love of offering Isaac as a sacrifice to God.

(2) Faith works together with works and

(3) by works Faith is made Perfect.

Do you disagree with either of these (3)?

Regarding the Reward God's Goodness promises to us, for Good Works done with Faith, I cited many passages like Rev 22:12 earlier: "
“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work." Rom 2:5-6 echoes this verse.

God Bless.

 

[Beckie]

I think it's sad that we still don't know how to get saved. What I mean by that is, the topic of salvation keeps coming up. Normally i hear about it on youtube. People discuss and argue their points. Same Bible, and yet people still keep coming up with other ways to get saved. Nobody knows what to do with works, sin, eternal security, or conditional security, and the list goes on! I guess I'll just haft to wait and see if God will put me in heaven or hell.

Can not quote on this tablet you answer is in the book of John

 

[Seeking-Christ]

Can not quote on this tablet you answer is in the book of John

I have read John. I guess you could say I have read the whole Bible 5 times! Only I used the audio bible to do it. I still find Salvation confusing.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I still find Salvation confusing.

Salvation is God's gift of eternal life to the one who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, and receives Him as Lord and Savior.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

Salvation is God's gift of eternal life to the one who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, and receives Him as Lord and Savior.

Yeah that is basically what I used to believe. Now I believe a person needs to have enough faith in Christ to be saved.

 

[crossnote]

I never said I took my theology from youtube. Nor would I take my theology from this website. It's also a bunch of confusion.

I never said you did, I said I never would.

 

[crossnote]

Well, in James 2 which I cited, among others. If you see Gen 15:6 "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.", Abraham became righteous by Grace through Faith at that time. Then, later in Gen 22:10 "10Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son." So this was a Good Work done post Justification, several chapters later. And what does St. James say?

"21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God." (Jam 2:21-23, NKJV)

From this passage, we learn three things:

(1) Abraham, who was already justified by faith in Gen 15, was further justified, or received an increase in righteousness, in Gen 22, for his work of love of offering Isaac as a sacrifice to God.

(2) Faith works together with works and

(3) by works Faith is made Perfect.

Do you disagree with either of these (3)?

Regarding the Reward God's Goodness promises to us, for Good Works done with Faith, I cited many passages like Rev 22:12 earlier: "
“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work." Rom 2:5-6 echoes this verse.

God Bless.

Yes I disagree but it’s too late to get into it and I’m tired.

 

[Adstar]

One really needs to familiarize themselves with Jesus' teachings on works. There are many reference to His teachings and works in the New Testament. A foremost example is in Matthew's Judgement of Nations Cha 25:

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus teaching on the importance of works is very clear!

Yep and here is evidence of the ones i was talking about.. Pushing the works salvation doctrine..

 

[Seeking-Christ]

Salvation was once a simple topic for me.
1) Believe in Jesus
2) Confess that your a sinner
3) Ask for forgiveness
4) Ask Jesus to come in

After that things got hard. Because I'm still a sinner, and I believe in conditional security. That means if I commit certain sins enough times, Jesus will disown me. Which He may have already.

 

[Adstar]

From what I see. Most people who teach works (including catholics) deny they teach works.

Exactly... Some preach both.. You must do works to be saved but then again we are saved by grace. LOL Some of them seem to have multi-personality disorder..

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

In many passages, the Lord Jesus/His Apostles in the Bible speaks of a Crown of Righteousness/Crown of Life as a Reward for Good Works done with Faith. That can include, but is not limited to, Charity, Martyrdom, Evangelism, Prayer, Fasting etc. At the end of his life, having persevered in the Faith, and ready for Martyrdom, St. Paul speaks of the "Crown of Righteousness" laid up for him in Heaven.

2 Tim 4:6 "For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

Jam 1:12 "Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him."

Rev 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

 

[Inquisitor]

Your post is correct.

The Bible says many times that we are saved through faith in Christ. So the first step we have to ask ourselves is, "What is faith in Christ?"

Many Christians have a very truncated view of the definition of 'faith in Christ'. This intellectual viewpoint is that, "I believe that Jesus is God and is my Savior, therefore I'm saved, I need do nothing else and my salvation can't be taken from me."

A more appropriate view of 'faith in Christ' is believing that Jesus is God, that He is our Savior, and by obeying His commandments and following His teachings.

There are many sections in the Bible in which Jesus informs us that we must do something in order to cooperate with His gift of salvation. All the references below involve acts/works on our part and were taught by Jesus.

1. Love one another as I have loved you
2. Only those that do the Father's will shall be saved
3. How can you say you love Me if you don't obey My commandments
4. Jesus tells us we must show our love for our fellow brothers/sisters in Matthew's Judgement of Nations
5. Be not hearers of the word but doers
6. He that hears My Word but doesn't act upon them has a faith built on weak and shifting sand
7. Jeuse taught us the Lord's Prayer, "Thy Will be done"
8. Love God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself and you shall have eternal live
9. Many other examples that I haven't cited here but all involve doing something to cooperate with our salvation.

The bible cites faith in Jesus many times, but in fact the Bible never says faith alone. Of faith, hope, and charity; charity is the greatest and without charity your faith is but a clanging gong, faith without works is dead.

So, each of us must define, what is faith in Jesus. Is it just an intellectual acceptance of Jesus as God and Savior, or is it an acceptance of all that Jesus taught us?

How do you reconcile the following statement.

Saved by grace through faith....(Ephesians 2:8)

Someone is wrong on this topic and someone is right.

 

[Inquisitor]

Well, in James 2 which I cited, among others. If you see Gen 15:6 "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.", Abraham became righteous by Grace through Faith at that time. Then, later in Gen 22:10 "10Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son." So this was a Good Work done post Justification, several chapters later. And what does St. James say?

"21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God." (Jam 2:21-23, NKJV)

From this passage, we learn three things:

(1) Abraham, who was already justified by faith in Gen 15, was further justified, or received an increase in righteousness, in Gen 22, for his work of love of offering Isaac as a sacrifice to God.

(2) Faith works together with works and

(3) by works Faith is made Perfect.

Do you disagree with either of these (3)?

Regarding the Reward God's Goodness promises to us, for Good Works done with Faith, I cited many passages like Rev 22:12 earlier: "
“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work." Rom 2:5-6 echoes this verse.

God Bless.

I will use part of one of your quotations from James.

"...and by works faith was made perfect?..."

I cannot see how James contradicts salvation by grace through faith!

If you want a perfect faith by grace, then hop to it and do a work or two.

 

[Adstar]

Salvation was once a simple topic for me.
1) Believe in Jesus
2) Confess that your a sinner
3) Ask for forgiveness
4) Ask Jesus to come in

After that things got hard. Because I'm still a sinner, and I believe in conditional security. That means if I commit certain sins enough times, Jesus will disown me. Which He may have already.

And this is a prime example of the fruit of Works salvation preaching... """ if I commit certain sins enough times, Jesus will disown me. Which He may have already."""

 

[Nehemiah6]

Yeah that is basically what I used to believe. Now I believe a person needs to have enough faith in Christ to be saved.

What about faith equivalent to a mustard seed? It is not the volume of your faith which saves you. It is the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I will use part of one of your quotations from James.

"...and by works faith was made perfect?..."

I cannot see how James contradicts salvation by grace through faith!

If you want a perfect faith by grace, then hop to it and do a work or two.

Hi Inquisitor. Glad we can agree on that much. By works faith is made perfect. So if you wish for a Perfect Faith, do Good Works!

A Reward in Heaven being promised by God's Mercy for those who labor for Him in faith and love is not the same as being "saved by works". We are not "saved by works". But a Heavenly Reward is promised for those who do Good Works with Faith in Christ.

"8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor." (1 Cor 3:8).

"4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Mat 6:4).

"Watch yourselves so you don’t lose what we have worked for, but that you may receive a full reward." (2 Jn 1:8).

 

[Goliath]

According to your faith let it be done sounds a lot more like it’s about faith.

Salvation is confusing, because everyone seems to be in one of three camps. Those who teach faith by Works...those who teach faith without works...And those who teach Grace.
When the focus should be,....the changing of the Heart. Thats what faith does, it changes the heart by Grace.
Has your heart been changed? (Rhetorical question)
The heart doesn't lie...you either Love God and your neighbor or you don't. We can fool one another, we can even fool ourselves into believing we are born of God. But if we look deep inside of ourselves, we will know the Truth. If we have been born of God our heart, has been changed.

I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
(Ezekiel 11:19-20)

When you are born of God, there is a distinct change, that change is a New Heart, a heart that can love everyone and hate no one. Now if you can be honest with yourself and say..I hate no one, and love even the most sinful of sinners...then you are saved.
Can you love a Child Molester, a Rapist, a Liar, a murderer, an Adulterer?
If not, you are not saved. The bible is very clear about this....in many places.
Those who have been born of God..see those who sin, as slaves of sin, just as Christ sees them.
Christ who loved us so much..he was willing to die for the slave.

And of His fullness have we all received, and grace for grace.
(John 1:16)
What does this mean?
Our love for Jesus is what brings us the Love of God the Father....But don't take my word for it!!
His teachings...., “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
(John 14:23-24)