Would God Have us Solve Confusion of baptisms?
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“guess my point was ...Paul never mentions baptism as 'the power of God unto salvation'.”
you know how your talking about “ the cross being foolishness to unbelievers ?
baptisms relevance in remission of sins is something Paul does actually explain
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV
if we believe this is true baptisms biblical significance starts to make sense in Paul’s writings how is baptism related to the cross where Jesus does for my sins ?
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
Romans 6:3-7, 11-12 KJV
baptism is what Paul’s talking about there and how it relates by faith to us who get baptized into christs death for our sins taking the action of faith because we believe the gospel telling us about his bloodshed on our behalf
further on this same concept is the removal of the sins of the flesh through baptism
“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
Colossians 2:10-13 KJV
my only point is Paul doesn’t say the words “ baptism is the power of god into salvstion “ he does say the gospel is the power of God into salvstion
baltism os well established in the gospel and Paul explains and teaches a lot of information about what baptism is for and how it affects us what we are to believe when getting baptized ect
it’s important stuff or there wouldn’t be so. Much in scripture explaining its relevance and significance to the believing church.
Preaching the cross leads to true message he of Jesus dying for our sins and baptism is when we believe that and choose willingly and freely to be part of it because we actually do believe
it’s just an act of faith designed by God for remission of sins. What matters is that we hear what God said to do for remission of sins in christs name and then do it because we do believe it
you know how your talking about “ the cross being foolishness to unbelievers ?
baptisms relevance in remission of sins is something Paul does actually explain
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV
if we believe this is true baptisms biblical significance starts to make sense in Paul’s writings how is baptism related to the cross where Jesus does for my sins ?
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
Romans 6:3-7, 11-12 KJV
baptism is what Paul’s talking about there and how it relates by faith to us who get baptized into christs death for our sins taking the action of faith because we believe the gospel telling us about his bloodshed on our behalf
further on this same concept is the removal of the sins of the flesh through baptism
“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
Colossians 2:10-13 KJV
my only point is Paul doesn’t say the words “ baptism is the power of god into salvstion “ he does say the gospel is the power of God into salvstion
baltism os well established in the gospel and Paul explains and teaches a lot of information about what baptism is for and how it affects us what we are to believe when getting baptized ect
it’s important stuff or there wouldn’t be so. Much in scripture explaining its relevance and significance to the believing church.
Preaching the cross leads to true message he of Jesus dying for our sins and baptism is when we believe that and choose willingly and freely to be part of it because we actually do believe
it’s just an act of faith designed by God for remission of sins. What matters is that we hear what God said to do for remission of sins in christs name and then do it because we do believe it
P
Grace And Peace, Precious friends. I believe this would honor HIM Very Much, and bring
us a lot closer to "Approval Unto God" by a Prayerful And Careful "study of HIS Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided."
So, briefly, to begin, so especially new born babes In CHRIST, will be saved a lot of frustration
caused by this prevailing Confusion, let us have a brief introduction, if you will, to "starting
a class" about baptisms, because I think there a very few who have "such a thing."
I know I did not in the "churches" I went to, one "immersing me to Get Saved," found out that
wasn't True, the next, when I inquired about their teaching, giving me an Unscriptural booklet
to explain their "traditional" belief.
The next one I attended, thinking {as a book writer suggested, "he believed was The
Closest thing to a New Testament church"}, that God Wanted me there, they re-did my
previous immersion, because "it Did Not save me, being symbolic, a supposed obedient
outward expression of an inward faith? {Do babies know Where that is in their Bible?}
= again, their "tradition" = the way they have always "done it." Thanks for patiently
listening to my experiences in H2O.
And, as Many of you probably know, there are other Various "traditions" of cleansing
baptisms, by "baby sprinkling, adult pouring, immersions in ONE name, others in
THREE names of God, And, "do it our way Requirement" to be a member of "our church," etc.
How do we know "which" one is actually correct? The Bible Answer will probably Shock
many.
Q: Did you know there Are Actually Thirteen baptisms in The Bible? Bet most have Never
"had a class" on them. I was Totally Amazed after 35 years "when I Finally Found out the
Real Meaning of water baptism. Ready, Precious friend(s) {who have Not Yet "studied" this
thoroughly}?:
The Important Question, very few are sincerely and humbly asking: Does God
Require water baptism, to be practiced Today, Under HIS Pure GRACE Dispensation?
For those who say "Yes," we have already seen above, Mass Confusion of "traditions,"
correct? But:
Have you Ever Thought: What IF "God's Answer" Was: "NO!" What would happen? Would not
ALL THE Confusion IMMEDIATELY Disappear into Oblivion? Class, are you "ready to begin,"
And, Be Very RICHLY Blessed By our Wonderful God, And, HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided?
Here is a brief lesson to get us started to thinking, or challenged, anyway:
BaptismS Scriptural SUMMARY!:
LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to ALL of Thy Truth. Amen:
Prophecy/Law: ►►► The Twelve WERE SENT to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO "Main" (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 KJB!)
+
B) "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 KJB!)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From "Things That DIFFER!":
Mystery/GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was NOT Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE? OR, EQUALS TWO?
us a lot closer to "Approval Unto God" by a Prayerful And Careful "study of HIS Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided."
So, briefly, to begin, so especially new born babes In CHRIST, will be saved a lot of frustration
caused by this prevailing Confusion, let us have a brief introduction, if you will, to "starting
a class" about baptisms, because I think there a very few who have "such a thing."
I know I did not in the "churches" I went to, one "immersing me to Get Saved," found out that
wasn't True, the next, when I inquired about their teaching, giving me an Unscriptural booklet
to explain their "traditional" belief.
The next one I attended, thinking {as a book writer suggested, "he believed was The
Closest thing to a New Testament church"}, that God Wanted me there, they re-did my
previous immersion, because "it Did Not save me, being symbolic, a supposed obedient
outward expression of an inward faith? {Do babies know Where that is in their Bible?}
= again, their "tradition" = the way they have always "done it." Thanks for patiently
listening to my experiences in H2O.
And, as Many of you probably know, there are other Various "traditions" of cleansing
baptisms, by "baby sprinkling, adult pouring, immersions in ONE name, others in
THREE names of God, And, "do it our way Requirement" to be a member of "our church," etc.
How do we know "which" one is actually correct? The Bible Answer will probably Shock
many.
Q: Did you know there Are Actually Thirteen baptisms in The Bible? Bet most have Never
"had a class" on them. I was Totally Amazed after 35 years "when I Finally Found out the
Real Meaning of water baptism. Ready, Precious friend(s) {who have Not Yet "studied" this
thoroughly}?:
The Important Question, very few are sincerely and humbly asking: Does God
Require water baptism, to be practiced Today, Under HIS Pure GRACE Dispensation?
For those who say "Yes," we have already seen above, Mass Confusion of "traditions,"
correct? But:
Have you Ever Thought: What IF "God's Answer" Was: "NO!" What would happen? Would not
ALL THE Confusion IMMEDIATELY Disappear into Oblivion? Class, are you "ready to begin,"
And, Be Very RICHLY Blessed By our Wonderful God, And, HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided?
Here is a brief lesson to get us started to thinking, or challenged, anyway:
BaptismS Scriptural SUMMARY!:
LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to ALL of Thy Truth. Amen:
Prophecy/Law: ►►► The Twelve WERE SENT to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO "Main" (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 KJB!)
+
B) "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 KJB!)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From "Things That DIFFER!":
Mystery/GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was NOT Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE? OR, EQUALS TWO?
I see this is from 2021, but the thread still seems to be current.
I sure agree that there is plenty of confusion! I just googled how many baptisms are in the Bible and came back with 7 or maybe 9 or possibly 3. Seriously, this is what I found.
I agree that water baptism does not wash away sin nor is it a requirement for salvation. The blood of Christ alone takes care of our sin problem and we are baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit. But hey - you can't even get people to agree (I don't mean you personally) on those simple things.
There is nothing and less than nothing we can do to aid in our salvation except to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His work. That, is the only requirement for salvation. It is God's gift to us and is called unmerited favor aka GRACE.
God is good. We, are not. The Bible says all our works are as filthy rags (and maybe some understand what that really means if they have studied it). So, the amazing and most wonderful thing is that God loves us in spite of that and sent His only Son to die on our behalf so that we would not spend eternity in hell.
Sorry to sound preachy but I don't mean all of that for you but honestly, I cannot fathom the amount of people who try desperately to add to the work of Christ that He alone could have accomplished. It's all about Jesus! Let's give Him the glory, honor and praise and refrain from patting ourselves on the back.
Precious friend, appreciate your serious input. I found 13 baptisms in The Bible:
12 baptisms + ONE Baptism
Amen. I certainly don't see Christ's Glory in a "mega church that recently claimed
they reached a 'wonderful milestone' of 50,000 {Confusing} water baptisms," eh?
Amen, Precious friend: See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ 😇 ↑
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace...
12 baptisms + ONE Baptism
Amen. I certainly don't see Christ's Glory in a "mega church that recently claimed
they reached a 'wonderful milestone' of 50,000 {Confusing} water baptisms," eh?
Amen, Precious friend: See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ 😇 ↑
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace...
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“I cannot fathom the amount of people who try desperately to add to the work of Christ that He alone could have accomplished. It's all about Jesus!”
what’s even more hard to grasp is how we take away the things Jesus said save and then claim it’s all about Jesus and faith and if anyone says “ hey Jesus said this “ then lol the person. Is all the sudden adding to the whole “ works of the cross “ Grace Grace doctrine
it’s strange on one hand it’s all about Jesus and on e other what he said about salvation is somehow adding works to salvstion
the issue is now and has always been the idea that “ Grace” means never having to do what God said will save us because somehow that’s the person who hears and believes it’s true adding works to salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
Jesus said that. And TV em commanded believers in him to do this
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
Is this an addition to the doctrine of Jesus Christ ? Or is it just what Jesus esrablished regarding thy gospel ? It seems now like some take away what he said about being saved and then they say “ Grace “ like it’s a big eraser of what God said in Christ
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
the apostle Peter one of Jesus chosen wotnesses filled already with the Holy Ghost said that to those asking thatbheard and believed the gospel “ what should we do ?”
is Peter adding in an un necassary work ? Or is he simply doing what Jesus commanded him to do preaching thy gospel and baptizing bekievers in his name for remission of sins ?
all the modern “ grace erases what God said to do “ is actually subtracting from The works christ set before us to walk in
and then claiming anyone who reads the Bible and discovers Jesus telling people how to be saved they then are adding works to this mysterious “ Grace “ doctrine that teaches us “ you don’t need to do anything Jesus said to do for salvation , or it’s not Grace or faith “
it’s pretty hazardous doctrine to take things Jesus said and claim it’s an added work of man when he himself was baptized , he commanded his disciples to baptize In His name for remission of sins until the end of the world
because I’m the end we don’t have to answer to the latest Joseph prince “ Grace “ book but we do have to answer tonjesus and his word in the gospel
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
one of the things God said through Christ is this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
That’s not an added work it’s e everlasting word of God believers believe and rejoice in such things
to take what Christ said and reject it’s truth and application in faith is not a wise move
what’s even more hard to grasp is how we take away the things Jesus said save and then claim it’s all about Jesus and faith and if anyone says “ hey Jesus said this “ then lol the person. Is all the sudden adding to the whole “ works of the cross “ Grace Grace doctrine
it’s strange on one hand it’s all about Jesus and on e other what he said about salvation is somehow adding works to salvstion
the issue is now and has always been the idea that “ Grace” means never having to do what God said will save us because somehow that’s the person who hears and believes it’s true adding works to salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
Jesus said that. And TV em commanded believers in him to do this
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
Is this an addition to the doctrine of Jesus Christ ? Or is it just what Jesus esrablished regarding thy gospel ? It seems now like some take away what he said about being saved and then they say “ Grace “ like it’s a big eraser of what God said in Christ
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
the apostle Peter one of Jesus chosen wotnesses filled already with the Holy Ghost said that to those asking thatbheard and believed the gospel “ what should we do ?”
is Peter adding in an un necassary work ? Or is he simply doing what Jesus commanded him to do preaching thy gospel and baptizing bekievers in his name for remission of sins ?
all the modern “ grace erases what God said to do “ is actually subtracting from The works christ set before us to walk in
and then claiming anyone who reads the Bible and discovers Jesus telling people how to be saved they then are adding works to this mysterious “ Grace “ doctrine that teaches us “ you don’t need to do anything Jesus said to do for salvation , or it’s not Grace or faith “
it’s pretty hazardous doctrine to take things Jesus said and claim it’s an added work of man when he himself was baptized , he commanded his disciples to baptize In His name for remission of sins until the end of the world
because I’m the end we don’t have to answer to the latest Joseph prince “ Grace “ book but we do have to answer tonjesus and his word in the gospel
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
one of the things God said through Christ is this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
That’s not an added work it’s e everlasting word of God believers believe and rejoice in such things
to take what Christ said and reject it’s truth and application in faith is not a wise move
This second sentence is a grammatical nightmare. I think it's supposed to read:
"If we believe this [1cor15:3] is true; baptism's biblical significance starts to make sense in Paul's writings. How is baptism related to the cross where Jesus dies for my sins?".
Hopefully, that's a good rendering. Regardless: if you mean to say that Romans is referring to water baptism, you definitely need to demonstrate why you think it is about water baptism; because nothing in that chapter suggests water. "Walking in newness of life" does not come from the power of water.
"If we believe this [1cor15:3] is true; baptism's biblical significance starts to make sense in Paul's writings. How is baptism related to the cross where Jesus dies for my sins?".
Hopefully, that's a good rendering. Regardless: if you mean to say that Romans is referring to water baptism, you definitely need to demonstrate why you think it is about water baptism; because nothing in that chapter suggests water. "Walking in newness of life" does not come from the power of water.
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P
I have a study book by Derek Prince and he does point out the various baptisms but I have not yet read that part.
But responses are all over the place as I already said. I can honestly state that God has led me bit by bit into more revelation of the truth of scripture; which is to say He has opened my eyes to what others said was not for us or twisted the word to mean something other than what it does.
It is a process and some of us manage to squeeze through only by the grace of God, coming from a background which does not teach all the truth of scripture, because, doggone it, it is too complicated and what if we get something wrong?
But responses are all over the place as I already said. I can honestly state that God has led me bit by bit into more revelation of the truth of scripture; which is to say He has opened my eyes to what others said was not for us or twisted the word to mean something other than what it does.
It is a process and some of us manage to squeeze through only by the grace of God, coming from a background which does not teach all the truth of scripture, because, doggone it, it is too complicated and what if we get something wrong?
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“if you mean to say that Romans is referring to water baptism, you definitely need to demonstrate why you think it is about water baptism;”
yes this is exactly why we don’t learn anything about baptism we try create a different baptism to replace the one baptism
Paul wrote this true or not ?
“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
Ephesians 4:4-5 KJV
So at this point if Paul is saying “ there’s one baptism “ how many different baptisms are there ?
And if Paul says plainly and clearly right there without any dispute “ there’s one baptism “ then what other baptism is Paul talking about ? Not this one I guess ?
Either Philip just didn’t get it or the one baptism has never changed
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
Acts 8:36-38 KJV
clearly you would agree that Philip baptized this man in water right ? So is Philip practicing a wrong baptism?
or Peter how about this one didn’t Peter understand either ?
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter answered and said , Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44-45, 47-48 KJV
so given there is only the one baptism for remission of sins given as instruction tonthe church and the other baptism mentioned is a resulting promise that the person will then receive the Holy Ghost. How are you coming to the conclusion there’s a different baptism that doesn’t involve water ?
remember Paul said there’s one baptism are we to believe John the Baptist he didn’t establish baptism for remission of sins by Gods command ? John the Baptist had baptism wrong ?
there’s just baptism for remission of sins John never said tithing but “ Jesus will later baptize you with the Holy Ghost “
That’s not an instruction for us to baptize one another but a promise thy at Jesus will accomplish and did johns reference was about pentocost when Christ shed forth the Holy Ghost
as you see clearly they kept baptizing for remission of sins and yes in water why water ?
the water has nothing to do with anything obeying the form of baptism given tonthe church by God matters he is the one who sent John baptizing in water for remission of sins not anyone else it’s Gods design that makes it valuable
same as communion of we say “ it’s just bread and wine “ it has no significance
were
Missing the point of what faith is “ Jesus took the bread and said take this is my body eat and took the wine and said drink this is my blood shed for remission of sins
when we take communion we should t say “ this bread has no meaning “ this wine is just plain old wine “ we need to operate by what Christ says so when we take communion and they bless the bread we’re supposed to believe that we’re partaking of Jesus body and blood not that we’re performing a meaningless ritual eating a piece of bread but that we are communing with the body and blood Of Jesus what makes it significant is thy at it’s designed by God it’s based on what Jesus said about the bread and wine of communion
if we take communion and don’t understand what we’re doing it’s not coming from faith if we say “ the bread is just bread and the wine is just wine “ there’s no communion but if we’re doing what God said for the reason he said then we are communing with the body and blood of Jesus
baptism is the same way the water matters because God established it for remission
Of sins
in Romans 6 Paul’s describing how you are buried beneath the water and then are lifted up from the water
it’s definately about baptism d remember there’s just the one baptism given Tony’s the church and another that Christ promises to perform for us sending the Holy Ghost
it’s working against ourself to create different baptisms where only one exists everything you read in scripture that has the word baptism in the sentance is talking about the one baptism for remission of sins in christs name
we can’t learn much because we argue over the simplest things baptism in water is designed by God made plain and clear by God it’s the only baptism e church is given to actually perform on each other Baptist’s baptize people who believe in Jesus name it’s simple stuff basic
Paul is teaching about baptism the same baptism Peter and the apostles were baptized with and Paul received the same Holy Ghost that Peter and the others did
there’s just the one baptism the spirit comes through promise remission of sins comes through repentance and baptism believing that Jesus does for your sins you then accept it and get baptized in his name that means this
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:3-5, 11 KJV
everything Paul’s saying there is about baltism how we go beneath the water and are buried with Christ and are raised up from the water d born anew in Christ.
if you remove water from baptism what’s left we’re they just saying “I baptize you “ of so why is Paul explainkng the process of being baptized into his death , buried with him and raised up with him ? Regarding baptism
sort of odd that we Christians are so far apart on the basics of Christianity but that happens I suppose
if we can agree that there’s just one baptism we could make progress but it doesn’t always happen Peter and Philip were either practicing baptism I. Water like it says and had it all wrong , or baltism hasn’t changed at all but for the name of Jesus.
baptism is simple it’s hard to understand how simple things like that become such a contentious issue
yes this is exactly why we don’t learn anything about baptism we try create a different baptism to replace the one baptism
Paul wrote this true or not ?
“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
Ephesians 4:4-5 KJV
So at this point if Paul is saying “ there’s one baptism “ how many different baptisms are there ?
And if Paul says plainly and clearly right there without any dispute “ there’s one baptism “ then what other baptism is Paul talking about ? Not this one I guess ?
Either Philip just didn’t get it or the one baptism has never changed
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
Acts 8:36-38 KJV
clearly you would agree that Philip baptized this man in water right ? So is Philip practicing a wrong baptism?
or Peter how about this one didn’t Peter understand either ?
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter answered and said , Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44-45, 47-48 KJV
so given there is only the one baptism for remission of sins given as instruction tonthe church and the other baptism mentioned is a resulting promise that the person will then receive the Holy Ghost. How are you coming to the conclusion there’s a different baptism that doesn’t involve water ?
remember Paul said there’s one baptism are we to believe John the Baptist he didn’t establish baptism for remission of sins by Gods command ? John the Baptist had baptism wrong ?
there’s just baptism for remission of sins John never said tithing but “ Jesus will later baptize you with the Holy Ghost “
That’s not an instruction for us to baptize one another but a promise thy at Jesus will accomplish and did johns reference was about pentocost when Christ shed forth the Holy Ghost
as you see clearly they kept baptizing for remission of sins and yes in water why water ?
the water has nothing to do with anything obeying the form of baptism given tonthe church by God matters he is the one who sent John baptizing in water for remission of sins not anyone else it’s Gods design that makes it valuable
same as communion of we say “ it’s just bread and wine “ it has no significance
were
Missing the point of what faith is “ Jesus took the bread and said take this is my body eat and took the wine and said drink this is my blood shed for remission of sins
when we take communion we should t say “ this bread has no meaning “ this wine is just plain old wine “ we need to operate by what Christ says so when we take communion and they bless the bread we’re supposed to believe that we’re partaking of Jesus body and blood not that we’re performing a meaningless ritual eating a piece of bread but that we are communing with the body and blood Of Jesus what makes it significant is thy at it’s designed by God it’s based on what Jesus said about the bread and wine of communion
if we take communion and don’t understand what we’re doing it’s not coming from faith if we say “ the bread is just bread and the wine is just wine “ there’s no communion but if we’re doing what God said for the reason he said then we are communing with the body and blood of Jesus
baptism is the same way the water matters because God established it for remission
Of sins
in Romans 6 Paul’s describing how you are buried beneath the water and then are lifted up from the water
it’s definately about baptism d remember there’s just the one baptism given Tony’s the church and another that Christ promises to perform for us sending the Holy Ghost
it’s working against ourself to create different baptisms where only one exists everything you read in scripture that has the word baptism in the sentance is talking about the one baptism for remission of sins in christs name
we can’t learn much because we argue over the simplest things baptism in water is designed by God made plain and clear by God it’s the only baptism e church is given to actually perform on each other Baptist’s baptize people who believe in Jesus name it’s simple stuff basic
Paul is teaching about baptism the same baptism Peter and the apostles were baptized with and Paul received the same Holy Ghost that Peter and the others did
there’s just the one baptism the spirit comes through promise remission of sins comes through repentance and baptism believing that Jesus does for your sins you then accept it and get baptized in his name that means this
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:3-5, 11 KJV
everything Paul’s saying there is about baltism how we go beneath the water and are buried with Christ and are raised up from the water d born anew in Christ.
if you remove water from baptism what’s left we’re they just saying “I baptize you “ of so why is Paul explainkng the process of being baptized into his death , buried with him and raised up with him ? Regarding baptism
sort of odd that we Christians are so far apart on the basics of Christianity but that happens I suppose
if we can agree that there’s just one baptism we could make progress but it doesn’t always happen Peter and Philip were either practicing baptism I. Water like it says and had it all wrong , or baltism hasn’t changed at all but for the name of Jesus.
baptism is simple it’s hard to understand how simple things like that become such a contentious issue
I don't respond to posts that indicate condemnation by someone who desires I follow their personal beliefs while telling me they represent God and I am detached from the word.
Nope. And I will not even apologize for refusing to accept your condemnation.
Nope. And I will not even apologize for refusing to accept your condemnation.
yeah boy if anyone ever said all that I wouldn’t respond either. Regarding baptism though you should probably listen to this guy d what he says is important
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
it seems basic faith to believe Jesus
No where in my post did I "create a new baptism"
You answered the question before you even asked it. Peter tells us:
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Not "so your sins may be blotted out when you go in the water".
I don't think the "burial in water" imagery you have is biblical. The Jews certainly didn't bury people in water. why would going in water be "planted with him in the likeness of his death". He didn't drown and he wasn't buried in water. Are you really born anew in Christ when you come out of the water- or is it when you have his spirit?
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The "likeness of his death" is that he was dead to sin, and lived for God by the power of the holy spirit; that's how he got crucified, and that's how the old man is "crucified with him"; not by water baptism.
Now, none of that is to say that water baptism wasn't commanded,- it definitely was. And there's nothing in the scriptures that says water baptism ever stopped.
All we are really disagreeing on is the relationship between water baptism and remission of sin.
This is a different topic; but I hope you're not talking about transubstantiation; because that's not a thing.
You answered the question before you even asked it. Peter tells us:
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Not "so your sins may be blotted out when you go in the water".
I don't think the "burial in water" imagery you have is biblical. The Jews certainly didn't bury people in water. why would going in water be "planted with him in the likeness of his death". He didn't drown and he wasn't buried in water. Are you really born anew in Christ when you come out of the water- or is it when you have his spirit?
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The "likeness of his death" is that he was dead to sin, and lived for God by the power of the holy spirit; that's how he got crucified, and that's how the old man is "crucified with him"; not by water baptism.
Now, none of that is to say that water baptism wasn't commanded,- it definitely was. And there's nothing in the scriptures that says water baptism ever stopped.
All we are really disagreeing on is the relationship between water baptism and remission of sin.
This is a different topic; but I hope you're not talking about transubstantiation; because that's not a thing.
The soul can be saved without being resurrected yet. There are examples of that in Revelation and elsewhere.
Actually I just opened another thread on why I think that. If you're interested you may view it here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/being-born-of-water-and-spirit.205592/
Actually I just opened another thread on why I think that. If you're interested you may view it here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/being-born-of-water-and-spirit.205592/
have you noticed none of your arguments are based on scripture but just your opinion ?
what would happen if you said “ the only reason the church knows about baptism in water for remission of sins is because the Bible plainly says it ? “
Would that sink in at all as the one baptism ? God sent John the Baptist to announce renission of sins and baptize people for remission of thier sins who believed
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
Mark 1:1-5 KJV
that’s Gods doing brother lol at this point what argument do you have against water baptism ? Let me just again as if it’s going to matter or you some scripture before you argue and assume I’m against you consider all this scripture one last time coming from the truth that God sent John the Baptist to establish the New Testament doctrine of baptism for remission of sins.
It happening in water is in scripture it’s the only baptism established as doctrine for the Chirch.
That’s John there above who God sent to establish baptism for repentance and remission of sins
“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
John 1:6 KJV
so to be clear the Bible has told us John who was sent of God to prepare the people for Jesus , was baptizing in the river for repentance and remission of sins before Jesus even shows up preaching or getting baptized in water himself.
“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Mark 1:9-11 KJV
so baptism in water doesn’t make any sense though ? It’s really a debate ?
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:36-39
“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:47-48
If you can conclude that here’s just the one baptism in water where the person is placed below the water , raised up from the water in Jesus name …..Romans 6 and all bat “buried with Jesus in baptism “stuff is going to actually make a lot of sense To you
“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV
if you want to argue find some scripture to discredit the ones I’ve shared with you supporting what I’m saying otherwise there’s no reason to be discussing the Bible with you on this matter just because it’s a pointless circle I’m sharing scripture about baptism with you and your just telling me I don’t understand lol
It seems like you don’t think you can learn from scripture and what it makes abundantly and repetitively clear
what would happen if you said “ the only reason the church knows about baptism in water for remission of sins is because the Bible plainly says it ? “
Would that sink in at all as the one baptism ? God sent John the Baptist to announce renission of sins and baptize people for remission of thier sins who believed
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
Mark 1:1-5 KJV
that’s Gods doing brother lol at this point what argument do you have against water baptism ? Let me just again as if it’s going to matter or you some scripture before you argue and assume I’m against you consider all this scripture one last time coming from the truth that God sent John the Baptist to establish the New Testament doctrine of baptism for remission of sins.
It happening in water is in scripture it’s the only baptism established as doctrine for the Chirch.
That’s John there above who God sent to establish baptism for repentance and remission of sins
“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
John 1:6 KJV
so to be clear the Bible has told us John who was sent of God to prepare the people for Jesus , was baptizing in the river for repentance and remission of sins before Jesus even shows up preaching or getting baptized in water himself.
“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Mark 1:9-11 KJV
so baptism in water doesn’t make any sense though ? It’s really a debate ?
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:36-39
“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:47-48
If you can conclude that here’s just the one baptism in water where the person is placed below the water , raised up from the water in Jesus name …..Romans 6 and all bat “buried with Jesus in baptism “stuff is going to actually make a lot of sense To you
“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV
if you want to argue find some scripture to discredit the ones I’ve shared with you supporting what I’m saying otherwise there’s no reason to be discussing the Bible with you on this matter just because it’s a pointless circle I’m sharing scripture about baptism with you and your just telling me I don’t understand lol
It seems like you don’t think you can learn from scripture and what it makes abundantly and repetitively clear
Uh.... no. I'm not the one relying on "water burial" metaphors.
I know what the bible says. But it's not just a matter of what it says, it's a matter of what it means. You seem to think that "for" remission of sins, means "in order to receive" remission of sins: probably based on how you look at Romans 6, and your "water burial" metaphor which isn't ever touched on by the scriptures. So, you're saying the scriptures support what you're saying when they don't necessarily support what you say.
I know what the bible says. But it's not just a matter of what it says, it's a matter of what it means. You seem to think that "for" remission of sins, means "in order to receive" remission of sins: probably based on how you look at Romans 6, and your "water burial" metaphor which isn't ever touched on by the scriptures. So, you're saying the scriptures support what you're saying when they don't necessarily support what you say.
Sentence construction often includes multiple points. The failure to repeat a point in a sentence is not the loss of meaning/or less of that point over another point....as some think.
Multiple references of a point in a document (Bible) clearly means major importance and when followed by reference including conditions of failure to apply is a ......commandment.........in the Bible.
Repentance is an example as well as baptism and righteous, etc.
Note here;
Baptism is Required
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”
John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be ...born again... then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
Multiple references of a point in a document (Bible) clearly means major importance and when followed by reference including conditions of failure to apply is a ......commandment.........in the Bible.
Repentance is an example as well as baptism and righteous, etc.
Note here;
Baptism is Required
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”
John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be ...born again... then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).