Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

[FreeGrace2]

“The belief that it is done as a public demonstration is not found in scripture.”

amen there isn’t even a suggestion of that in scripture. It’s what people come up with when they reject what it does say it’s for

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There’s nothing about Christianity that’s a public display or ritual without meaning.

No one on this thread has said baptism is a ritual without meaning. You have inserted your own opinion into what others have said.

It is a ritual WITH MEANING. It is also, obviously, a pubic display, or certainly was in the 1st Century, where all baptisms occurred where there was enough water for immersion; lake, sea, river. All of which is public.

The meaning of the ritual is positional truth. That the believer is identified with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Maybe that is "without meaning" to you. Well, that would be quite sad.


Its all about fulfilling Gods word and having the promises come to pass[/QUOTE]

 

[peldom10]

Regarding the Title of the OP, I disagree.

Water baptism is ONLY necessary in that Jesus commanded us to be water baptized. It is considered the 1st act of obedience after our salvation.

Water baptism serves as a WITNESS to both the Church and the world that a person has chosen to become a believer in and disiple of Jesus. The Holy Spirit baptism (which IS REQUIRED for salvation) is not visible to the human eye. It is a spiritual event.

That is why water baptism is necessary. In that it is visible to all mankind, and that is why Jesus was baptized (serving as an example for us), and why new believers should be water baptized. It has NOTHING to do with salvation or any such thing.

BTW: There is ONE RESURRETION

When that Eastern Sky splits, the Trump sounds, and Jesus descends from heaven to gather unto Him His Church, THAT IS IT!

Wrong.

Study scriptures;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
===============================

If you choose to reject the above scriptures then you must show valid reasons in scriptures or your position is rejected.

 

[peldom10]

I didn't know he was water baptized.

I do know the entire population of earth WAS fully immersed, but it didn't work out for them much.

The great flood was not a form of...baptism...I assure you.

 

[peldom10]

No one on this thread has said baptism is a ritual without meaning. You have inserted your own opinion into what others have said.

It is a ritual WITH MEANING. It is also, obviously, a pubic display, or certainly was in the 1st Century, where all baptisms occurred where there was enough water for immersion; lake, sea, river. All of which is public.

The meaning of the ritual is positional truth. That the believer is identified with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Maybe that is "without meaning" to you. Well, that would be quite sad.


Its all about fulfilling Gods word and having the promises come to pass

[/QUOTE]


It is not a ritual.

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[DavidTree]

“The other 50% is the LORD'S ministry was very public and so is the ministry of the Gospel.”

yeah you. Us understand what I’m saying he doesn’t tell Us to do anything for public display there’s meaning spiritual true meaning in all He teaches us noting is for a show is all I’m saying.

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.”

yes agreed I’m saying he’s not saying “ get baptized so everyone can see make a public statement to everyone “ that’s not in scripture as the brother pointed out.

the only explaination given of what baptism is for is for remission of sins it was johns purpose in this world to give knowledge of remission through Christ call To repentance the people and for them personally to have thier conscience cleared of sins through thier one act of faith in Christ and his sacrifice

“And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people By the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God;

Whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:63, 76-78‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John was preaching Jesus who would come after “ the lamb of God “ from
Prophecy who would be sacrificed for the sins of the people and rise to
Life again but he was baptizing THe people as was his purpose , with water but more importantly Gods ordaining word that sent John just as the world was about to receive Jesus the Christ to prepare the people through repentance of Mind and heart and remission of thier sins in him.

Baptism for repentance and remission calls the believer to a decision making point, “ do I believe this is true enough to start acting as if I believe it’s true ? “

“or do I believe this is true and that’s enough I don’t need to do anything he plainly says to do and receive the blessing he promises ? “

it calls us to humility repenting and needing to have our sins remitted , and real godly humility and faith in Jesus messiah is what’s needed to understand the gospel.

The recognition of the savior we need desperately and his name who will Never teach us error , tell us false promises and blessings or give us misleading instruction. He came to save us.

John was born full Of the Holy Ghost even in the womb. He also is in prophecy as an important figure who would arrive just before the messiah . When he arrived he was calling people to repentance , and baptizing them in water for Remission of sins preparing them for the gospel and ministry of Jesus

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me”

That’s about John and his baptism of repentance it paves the way for christs teachings to those who believe those sins are remitted and tbier able to approach him and know him

Baptism is important doctrine there’s no way around it. Coming tonjesus in an act of faith because we believe in his death and resurrection is important matter for us not for anyone else or the crowd or Public

but for the person getting baptized because of what they believe , it has to be faith according to belief.

once you accept it’s just important doctrine of the gospel these concepts all makes sense itself with scripture alone regarding baptism

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
‭‭
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4

see how it’s an Act of faith ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. …

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


When you here about baptism bekng for remission of sins believing Jesus died and rose and get baptized because you believe that you have acted in faith and have this now “answer of a good conscience toward God”

“I got baptized for remission of my sins just like Jesus said my conscience can. NOw witness this anytime my sins come up again there remitted by what God said , by obedience of faith my sins are remitted.

Now I can start learning from the lord jeering the word of righteousness

Some can hear things but some can’t

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re all Ok but there’s really not a debate about baptism in my own opinion it’s foundational doctrine

AMEN = water baptism is indeed a outward righteousness that we are to partake in - AMEN
We are both more then OK because we are under the BLOOD and Born of the SPIRIT.
You cannot spell LOVE without the BLOOD and the DOVE.

The Righteous PURE Blood of Christ saves us.
water baptism is the AFTER as the Scripture ALWAYS points to FAITH in Christ/Word in the heart BEFORE water baptism =1 Peter ch3

The FOUNDATION of ALL Truth begins in Genesis = Adam & Eve were never water baptized neither was Cain and Abel.
Neither was Enoch (Near Perfect WALK with God) neither was Noah, neither was Abraham Isaac and Jacob, neither was Job.

Noah and family saved 120 Years BEFORE symbolic water baptism. = 1 Peter ch3
Cornelius & family saved in their hearts BEFORE water baptism.
The SPIRT saves and the water baptism is the outward confirmation of the FIRST ACT of the SPIRIT thru FAITH is the cleansing SPIRIT Water of the WORD = called GRACE.

 

[Runningman]

Your main point here seems to be that "Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:"

But when I looked carefully at the verses that you quote I did not find this statement clearly shown by the verses you give. You begin with I Corinthians 15:29, and from the context argue these people were posthumously conducting baptisms so that those already deceased could have resurrected bodies. Then you say that there is no evidence that this qualifies a dead person for a resurrection. Then you say this: "but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection."

OK, then I say let's see the evidence?
You produce Romans 6:4,5 and Colossians 2:12, and Galatians 3:27. These do all talk about "baptism" in the same context as resurrection or putting on Christ, etc. But that does not mean that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body.
There is also a Holy Spirit baptism, and if the writer wants to clearly differentiate the two, he will say which one that he means. But even if the writer does mean "water baptism" in each of these texts, still none of them come even close to saying that "water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body."

Sound biblical doctrine dare not be made by one's personal ideas and conclusions from a text. Doctrine must be clearly stated by plain Scripture. Hence I reject the idea that "water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body" as false doctrine.

Having said that, however, you are allowed to disagree, and discuss the issue as you wish. But this is where I stand.

You don't seem to apply the same critical eye to your theology that you do to mine. For example, you never produced verses that says water baptism is not required to be in the first resurrection.

You produced no scripture that rebuttals my interpretation. What you did was prop up a strawman and attack it without actually showing scripture that refutes my OP. Do you see that you didn't actually quote anything other than your own commentary?

So let me ask you plainly. Which verse tells someone how to get into the first resurrection? Be clear and specific with the verse(s) you chose like how I was with the verses I chose that correlate water baptism directly to a literal resurrection.

If you can show that there is some other way to be resurrected without water baptism then by all means let's look at it.

 

[Magenta]

The great flood was not a form of...baptism...I assure you.

Eight souls were saved by water.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You don't seem to apply the same critical eye to your theology that you do to mine. For example, you never produced verses that says water baptism is not required to be in the first resurrection.

Right. Prove a negative. No, that's not how this works. To prove YOUR claim, YOU need a verse that actually says what you claim.

And 1 Cor 15:29 doesn't do that. And besides, that verse is about PROXY baptisms anyway.

You produced no scripture that rebuttals my interpretation.

It is the LACK of verses that support your theory that is the issue.

So let me ask you plainly. Which verse tells someone how to get into the first resurrection?

There is NO verse that tells us "how to get into the first resurrection". There is a verse that clearly TELLS US WHO will be in the first resurrection: 1 Cor 15:23. The "who" are "those who belong to Him".

Did you notice that the verse makes NO MENTION of also having been baptized.

If you can show that there is some other way to be resurrected without water baptism then by all means let's look at it.

Just did. 1 Cor 15:23. The first resurrection is for believers only. Nothing mentioned about being baptized by water.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Eight souls were saved by water.

Actually, 1 Peter 3:20 says the 8 were "saved THROUGH water". There is no way the water saved them from anything, except getting wet and probably drowned.

To be saved through water refers to the fact that they were SAFE on the ark which floated THROUGH the water.

So, it was the ark, a picture or symbol of Christ, that saved them, FROM the water.

 

[njhmusicman18]

I strongly urge everyone to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. It is necessary for salvation! If you say you have faith, then do as the Lord said and be properly baptized.

What about the thief on the cross? Is he going to heaven? I don’t think he was baptized

 

[Magenta]

Actually, 1 Peter 3:20 says the 8 were "saved THROUGH water". There is no way the water saved them from anything, except getting wet and probably drowned.

To be saved through water refers to the fact that they were SAFE on the ark which floated THROUGH the water.

So, it was the ark, a picture or symbol of Christ, that saved them, FROM the water.

That was the KJV I quoted. I find it odd that one who pounds on and on about water saving,
denies that Scripture attests to the flood being a form of baptism for those who were saved.
Then again, it is not the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or even 5th time they've denied what Scripture says.

New International Version
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

New Living Translation
those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was
building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

English Standard Version
because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the
ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Berean Study Bible
who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark
was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.

Berean Literal Bible
at one time having disobeyed, when the longsuffering of God was waiting in the days of Noah,
of the ark being prepared, in which a few--that is, eight souls--were saved through water,

King James Bible
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days
of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

New King James Version
who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

New American Standard Bible
who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the
construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

NASB 1995
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the
construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

NASB 1977
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the
construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Amplified Bible
who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building
of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.

Christian Standard Bible
who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while
the ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people —were saved through water.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while
an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water.

American Standard Version
that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
These who from the first were not convinced in the days of Noah when the long-suffering of God commanded that there
would be an ark, upon the hope of their repentance, and only eight souls entered it and were kept alive by water.

Contemporary English Version
They had disobeyed God while Noah was building the boat, but God had been patient
with them. Eight people went into that boat and were brought safely through the flood.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days
of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

Good News Translation
These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days
that Noah was building his boat. The few people in the boat--eight in all--were saved by the water,

International Standard Version
who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah, when God waited patiently while
the ark was being built. In it a few, that is, eight persons, were saved by water.

Literal Standard Version
who sometime [ago] disobeyed when once the long-suffering of God waited, in [the] days of
Noah—an ark being prepared—in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water,

New American Bible
who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during
the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.

NET Bible
after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an
ark was being constructed. In the ark a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water.

New Revised Standard Version
who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during
the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

New Heart English Bible
who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the box-
shaped vessel was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved by means of water.

Weymouth New Testament
who in ancient times had been disobedient, while God's longsuffering was patiently waiting in the days of Noah
during the building of the Ark, in which a few persons--eight in number--were brought safely through the water.

World English Bible
who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while
the ship was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Young's Literal Translation
who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah --
an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;

 

[Runningman]

What about the thief on the cross? Is he going to heaven? I don’t think he was baptized

"I don’t think he was baptized"

Here's our clue that you're just giving your opinion; your thoughts and/or feelings are not scripture.

In fact, the New Testament neither confirms or denies the thief was water baptized, however, you may consider that there is more evidence to suggest he was water baptized then there is evidence to suggest he was not water baptized.

Mark 1:4,5 KJV
4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

At the time, everyone in Judea was water baptized. That would have included the thief on the cross having participated in John's baptism of repentance.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No one on this thread has said baptism is a ritual without meaning. You have inserted your own opinion into what others have said.

It is a ritual WITH MEANING. It is also, obviously, a pubic display, or certainly was in the 1st Century, where all baptisms occurred where there was enough water for immersion; lake, sea, river. All of which is public.

The meaning of the ritual is positional truth. That the believer is identified with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Maybe that is "without meaning" to you. Well, that would be quite sad.


Its all about fulfilling Gods word and having the promises come to pass

[/QUOTE]

well I certainly wasn’t speaking of you , I haven’t even read your posts

I never said anyone here said anything in all I said. What I commented Had nothing to do with anyone’s post in the thread ……you are sort of injecting yourself into what I said actually lol had nothing whatsoever to do with your opinion haven’t even read yours in this thread…….

it’s not a ritual though , rituals are about religion and prescription baptism is a simple act of faith . Not a ritual you get baptized because you personal believe the gospel and hear about remission of sins

a ritual would be like a catholic baptism baptizing babies who repent making a decision based on tbier personal faith believing the gospel and hearing about baptism for remission of sins …..

a ritual isn’t an act of personal faith

you know in church when we all
Sit and take a cracker ? And we drink some grape juice ? If we don’t believe Jesus gave his body and blood for our sins and life there’s no reason for us to take of the “bread and wine “ .

If we believe he gave his body and blood for us there’s a reason by that faith to partake of communion. It’s something that believers do because they believe what they hear of the gospel.

It’s an act of basic faith in the death and resurrection and ascention to the throne of Jesus Christ our lord.


A ritual is something you do because you think it’s a rule you need to keep not because you believe in what God said , what God said to do means what he says.

It’s just what he said to do and receive remission of sins if we believe . It’s simple faith if we believe what he said we’ll get baptized if we change what it means to get baptized it’s not going to operate by faith

but to clarify unusually don’t read your posts much any more I never really agree so don’t see the point so anything I write isn’t directed at you or anyone else .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"I don’t think he was baptized"

Here's our clue that you're just giving your opinion; your thoughts and/or feelings are not scripture.

In fact, the New Testament neither confirms or denies the thief was water baptized, however, you may consider that there is more evidence to suggest he was water baptized then there is evidence to suggest he was not water baptized.

Mark 1:4,5 KJV
4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

At the time, everyone in Judea was water baptized. That would have included the thief on the cross having participated in John's baptism of repentance.

amen everyone in the region was waiting for it

he also had heard Jesus preaching the kingdom and believed because as he’s dying , he asks to be allowed in . He also repents and confesses his sinfulness and Jesus innocence.

there’s no reason to think he wasn’t baptized , the evidence leans towards he was baptized most all the people in the regions and it was about confessing sins and remission so a lot of sinners like him , would have been baptized among the people .

all we actually know is he wasn’t baptized after he was placed on the cross and died. But people were getting baptized three years beforehand. I’d say he believed the gospel of the kingdom Jesus preached because he asks to
Be welcomed in and that he repented and confessed and was most likely baptized we don’t know for sure either way.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

What about the thief on the cross? Is he going to heaven? I don’t think he was baptized

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to Chat. Matters not about the thief
on the cross; what matters is today's message of Pure GRACE, through our
apostle (not sent to baptize), rather than the 12, who were sent to baptize:

repentance is the change of mind about our sin against A Holy God:

"Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks,​

repentance toward God,...​

The Other Part is "faith/heart belief/trust":

...and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." In The Gospel Of GRACE:

​

"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,​

how That Christ Died for our sins According To The Scriptures;​

And that He Was Buried, and That He Rose Again the third day​

According To The Scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)​

Thus, by obedience to Both, Then God's Guarantee Is
His ETERNAL Life, A Secure Relationship With Him!

Also, (not water of the Previous dispensation), But, In Today's
Dispensation Of Pure GRACE, There Is ONE Baptism, "BY" The
Holy Spirit, Translating us Spiritually Into The Body Of Christ,
By God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In Christ.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

God's Simple Will!

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

"I don’t think he was baptized" Here's our clue that you're just giving your opinion...

...Mark 1:4,5 KJV
4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

So that's everyone in Judea which would include the thief on the cross having participated in John's baptism of repentance.

EVERYONE? Then what, pray tell, are you "going to do" with these UNrepentant?:

Luk 7:29 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."

Everyone???

So, maybe the case was an UNrepentant thief, who "changed his mind" on the
cross, repenting, and "calling on The LORD," eh? Note, just my opinion...

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

AMEN = water baptism is indeed a outward righteousness that we are to partake in - AMEN
We are both more then OK because we are under the BLOOD and Born of the SPIRIT.
You cannot spell LOVE without the BLOOD and the DOVE.

The Righteous PURE Blood of Christ saves us.
water baptism is the AFTER as the Scripture ALWAYS points to FAITH in Christ/Word in the heart BEFORE water baptism =1 Peter ch3

The FOUNDATION of ALL Truth begins in Genesis = Adam & Eve were never water baptized neither was Cain and Abel.
Neither was Enoch (Near Perfect WALK with God) neither was Noah, neither was Abraham Isaac and Jacob, neither was Job.

Noah and family saved 120 Years BEFORE symbolic water baptism. = 1 Peter ch3
Cornelius & family saved in their hearts BEFORE water baptism.
The SPIRT saves and the water baptism is the outward confirmation of the FIRST ACT of the SPIRIT thru FAITH is the cleansing SPIRIT Water of the WORD = called GRACE.

“water baptism is indeed a outward righteousness that we are to partake in - “
Naw not really my take on what baptism is because it’s not found in scripture that “ baptism is an outward righteousness we are to let’s keep of “

What is found is baptism is for remission of sins and prepares one for receiving the gospel and eternal life.

It’s not a ritual brother your describing a ritual “ an outward thing we do “ what I’m saying is it’s an inward thing we believe first and then we act from the heart believing it is what God said it is

it’s the same principle with communion communion isn’t “ an outward righteousness we’re supposed to partake of “ it’s not a ritual of a religion

It’s based on believing what it’s said to be by the lord why do we take communion ?

“And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why do we afterwards do it ? Because it’s a ritual ? Or is it an act of faith we do because we believe what God said about it ?

“I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ?

The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:15-

if we don’t agree that yes it is communion there’s no reason for us to do kit it would become a ritual but if we agree it becomes faith

To show how it’s more than a ritual look at the end of this one

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-29‬ ‭

Mistaking and abusing a ritual can’t bring condemnation upon you. But partaking of the body and blood of Jesus sacrifice done in faith believing what he said it is , we’ve acted in faith and receive the blessing.

it’s the same thing with baptism Jesus doesn’t add it in here because it’s just an outward righteousness he says it because we need to have remission of sins

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it just seems to me my own personal view not needed to be agreed to by anyone else ….but my own belief baptism is just simply for remission of sins when we believe we get baptized for remission of sins in Jesus name

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

It’s made possible because Jesus shed his blood to Pay the price for my sins

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

like baptism when I take the cup I need to believe I’m partaking in his blood and body for it to be effective it’s an act of faith same with baptism if I believe it’s for remission of sins it’s of faith and I’ll want to do it.

if I believe Jesus shed his blood ( died ) for my sins my next move is to get baptized and be born again through believing the gospel

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

we need to start believing these things mean what the scripture says they mean why. Take communion ?

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”


We take communion because we believe this is true when we partake

“as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”

The faith is the meaning of these things they aren’t rituals but they are the faith of Jesus Christ baptism , communion , eternal judgement , spiritual gifts ect if we start believing it just means what it says it builds faith

 

[Chester]

You don't seem to apply the same critical eye to your theology that you do to mine. For example, you never produced verses that says water baptism is not required to be in the first resurrection.

You produced no scripture that rebuttals my interpretation. What you did was prop up a strawman and attack it without actually showing scripture that refutes my OP. Do you see that you didn't actually quote anything other than your own commentary?

So let me ask you plainly. Which verse tells someone how to get into the first resurrection? Be clear and specific with the verse(s) you chose like how I was with the verses I chose that correlate water baptism directly to a literal resurrection.

If you can show that there is some other way to be resurrected without water baptism then by all means let's look at it.

So, first, I am not the OP and am not trying to state what Scripture says about how to get into the first resurrection. You are the one putting forward the doctrine that "Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:"

I am just saying that I do not see that being clearly taught or stated in the Scriptures that you listed. And thus I do not accept your statement as doctrine. That is my opinion and that is where I stand. You are allowed to do otherwise.

You say I "gave no Scripture that rebuttals my interpretation". I don't have to find other Scriptures nor am I looking for others! I just looked at the very Scriptures you gave and find that they they do not say that "Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:" Hey, you don't have to agree, but this is my opinion!

 

[Runningman]

So, first, I am not the OP and am not trying to state what Scripture says about how to get into the first resurrection. You are the one putting forward the doctrine that "Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:"

I am just saying that I do not see that being clearly taught or stated in the Scriptures that you listed. And thus I do not accept your statement as doctrine. That is my opinion and that is where I stand. You are allowed to do otherwise.

You say I "gave no Scripture that rebuttals my interpretation". I don't have to find other Scriptures nor am I looking for others! I just looked at the very Scriptures you gave and find that they they do not say that "Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:" Hey, you don't have to agree, but this is my opinion!

You're referencing yourself as the source for your authority of Biblical interpretation. That isn't how Bible discussions are supposed to work. Whatever you have put forward I, therefore, summarily dismiss as a manmade doctrine.

Thanks for sharing your critical opinion, though, but if you can't or won't source a Biblical passage then why do you need to disagree? It isn't like your opinion weighs on what the Bible says. Why deflect when I ask you questions about your "opinions?" Maybe because there aren't verses for your opinions and now you want to distance yourself from this discussion?

 

[FreeGrace2]

That was the KJV I quoted. I find it odd that one who pounds on and on about water saving,
denies that Scripture attests to the flood being a form of baptism for those who were saved.
Then again, it is not the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or even 5th time they've denied what Scripture says.

New International Version
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

New Living Translation
those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was
building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

English Standard Version
because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the
ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Berean Study Bible
who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark
was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.

Berean Literal Bible
at one time having disobeyed, when the longsuffering of God was waiting in the days of Noah,
of the ark being prepared, in which a few--that is, eight souls--were saved through water,

King James Bible
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days
of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

New King James Version
who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

New American Standard Bible
who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the
construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

NASB 1995
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the
construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

NASB 1977
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the
construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Amplified Bible
who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building
of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.

Christian Standard Bible
who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while
the ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people —were saved through water.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while
an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water.

American Standard Version
that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
These who from the first were not convinced in the days of Noah when the long-suffering of God commanded that there
would be an ark, upon the hope of their repentance, and only eight souls entered it and were kept alive by water.

Contemporary English Version
They had disobeyed God while Noah was building the boat, but God had been patient
with them. Eight people went into that boat and were brought safely through the flood.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days
of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

Good News Translation
These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days
that Noah was building his boat. The few people in the boat--eight in all--were saved by the water,

International Standard Version
who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah, when God waited patiently while
the ark was being built. In it a few, that is, eight persons, were saved by water.

Literal Standard Version
who sometime [ago] disobeyed when once the long-suffering of God waited, in [the] days of
Noah—an ark being prepared—in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water,

New American Bible
who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during
the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.

NET Bible
after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an
ark was being constructed. In the ark a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water.

New Revised Standard Version
who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during
the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

New Heart English Bible
who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the box-
shaped vessel was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved by means of water.

Weymouth New Testament
who in ancient times had been disobedient, while God's longsuffering was patiently waiting in the days of Noah
during the building of the Ark, in which a few persons--eight in number--were brought safely through the water.

World English Bible
who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while
the ship was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Young's Literal Translation
who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah --
an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;

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