Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
it is written
According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Just because you say it is so does not mean it is so. Your insinuation that there is "no question about it" is nothing but you superimposing your erroneous understanding in order to cancel opposing views.
If the world of 2 Cor 5:19 "is an Eternally Justified world", there is no need of reconciliation.
You're behaving just like the folks who declared "mostly peaceful protests" while in the background the city was in flames. smh
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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it is written
According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Just because you say it is so does not mean it is so. Your insinuation that there is "no question about it" is nothing but you superimposing your erroneous understanding in order to cancel opposing views.
If the world of 2 Cor 5:19 "is an Eternally Justified world", there is no need of reconciliation.
You're behaving just like the folks who declared "mostly peaceful protests" while in the background the city was in flames. smh
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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Actually, the Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for all mankind:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
All mankind is under sin.
All may partake of the promise.
However, the promise is received through faith and is given to those who believe.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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John 3:16
1 John 2:1-2
I love 1 John 2:1-2 ... our Advocate truly is the Righteous One and He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world ...
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Adds nothing to Justification before God !
Faith, or believing, the act of the creature [old or new] adds nothing to Justification before God, that fact was accomplished solely by Christ's Blood, however it does give Joy and Comforth in the Knowledge of the fact, Paul's meaning here Rom 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Note: Believing is through the Power of the Holy Ghost !
Yet Justification is a Divine Fact before we believe it, Faith causes us to believe the Fact of our free Justification, as it is made known in the Gospel Rom 1:17. Justification is our Righteousness, and is made known to the Spiritual eye of Faith, and so the Gospel is also called the word of Faith Rom 10:8,17 !
Faith, or believing, the act of the creature [old or new] adds nothing to Justification before God, that fact was accomplished solely by Christ's Blood, however it does give Joy and Comforth in the Knowledge of the fact, Paul's meaning here Rom 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Note: Believing is through the Power of the Holy Ghost !
Yet Justification is a Divine Fact before we believe it, Faith causes us to believe the Fact of our free Justification, as it is made known in the Gospel Rom 1:17. Justification is our Righteousness, and is made known to the Spiritual eye of Faith, and so the Gospel is also called the word of Faith Rom 10:8,17 !
oh yeah, that would be your "elect ungodly" or whatever your erroneous dogma calls the "elect" who have no faith ... cuz the "elect" are "special" and never were part of "the whole ungodly world of men"
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Why don't you stick to the discussion at hand, brightfame52?
In your Post #1154, you stated "scripture teaches that some men are condemned already Jn 3:18 and are under God's Wrath Jn 3:36"
I replied in Post #1166 "let's check out John 3:18 and John 3:36 to see what is written"
Instead of responding to what Scripture reveals in John 3:18 and John 3:36, you now want to jump to Romans 5:10.
Now, why would this be an issue? Because you continue to ignore what is written in Scripture concerning faith, believing, or the fact that some reject (which is why they are condemned).
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Believe = not condemned
Believe not = condemned, because he has not believed
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Believe = everlasting life
Believe not = wrath of God
doesn't matter how much you twist and turn, brightfame52 ... those who believe are justified ... have eternal life. So sad you can't just read what's written.
The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... the whole world.
it is written
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
That is why it is no longer a sin issue ... God has taken care of that. It is now a faith issue ... those who reject God's provision for mankind are the ones who "die in their sins and unbelief".
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So that being the case, those who are condemned in unbelief and under Gods wrath in unbelief cannot possibly be anyone Christ died for. God is at peace with all sinners Christ died for by His Cross Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
So now you're saying the "all men to condemnation" ... the "all men unto justification of life" refers only to the "elect"???
Just read the verse as written:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Because we have already read what is written in Romans 4 and in beginning verses of Romans 5 (especially Rom 4:16 – 5:1) and we do not forget what we have read, we know that those who are justified are those who believe.
However, even though the free gift came upon all, all mankind does not believe. Some restrain the truth in unrighteousness as we read in Romans 1:18. God's free gift is rejected.
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Just read the verse as written:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Because we have already read what is written in Romans 4 and in beginning verses of Romans 5 (especially Rom 4:16 – 5:1) and we do not forget what we have read, we know that those who are justified are those who believe.
However, even though the free gift came upon all, all mankind does not believe. Some restrain the truth in unrighteousness as we read in Romans 1:18. God's free gift is rejected.
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Once again you cannot refute Scripture submitted in Post #1170, so you jump to another unrelated section of Scripture.
Here, I'll get the discussion back on track:
Referring to Rom 4:5, brightfame52 said at Post #1157
reneweddaybyday responded at Post #1170
just read the verse, brightfame52:
God having made provision for the sin of all mankind does not equal "justified before God".
Read what Scripture does tell us about how mankind is justified:
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
God says righteousness is imputed if we believe (Rom 4:24) and God says we are justified by faith (Rom 5:1).
You can suppress the truth in unrighteousness all you want. You rejecting God's Wod does not negate God's Word.
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Here, I'll get the discussion back on track:
Referring to Rom 4:5, brightfame52 said at Post #1157
"If Justified before Faith, we are [if Christ died for us] Justified before our existence !"
reneweddaybyday responded at Post #1170
just read the verse, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone is "Justified before Faith" or "Justified before our existence".
The verse states that the one who believes on Him Who justifies, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Quit mangling Scripture to prop up your erroneous dogma!
You also state that "we are [if Christ died for us] Justified".
Since Scripture plainly tells us (in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2) that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, you are the one espousing universalism, which, according to your statement in your Post #1154, is "false teaching".
God having made provision for the sin of all mankind does not equal "justified before God".
Read what Scripture does tell us about how mankind is justified:
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
God says righteousness is imputed if we believe (Rom 4:24) and God says we are justified by faith (Rom 5:1).
You can suppress the truth in unrighteousness all you want. You rejecting God's Wod does not negate God's Word.
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Actually, the Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for all mankind:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
All mankind is under sin.
All may partake of the promise.
However, the promise is received through faith and is given to those who believe.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
All mankind is under sin.
All may partake of the promise.
However, the promise is received through faith and is given to those who believe.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Faith looks to the Blood of Christ for Justification before God.
Same Justification and Righteousness !
The OT Prophets/ Saints were Justified by Faith Righteousness [Righteousness revealed to Faith] just as the NT Apostles and Saints were Rom 3:21-22
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
This is that Faith Righteousness that most of the entire nation of israel did not have as per Rom 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Now this Righteousness is witnessed to in the Law and the Prophets Rom 3:21,22 10
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
And it was foundationed in Christ Vs 22
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
That proves that the OT Saints had Faith in Christ's blood !
It was witnessed by who in the OT ? By Abraham Gen 15:6
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness. God showed him Christ's day Jn 8:56
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Even before Abraham, Noah,for it is written of him Heb 11:7
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
And before him Abel Heb 11:4
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
This Righteousness as it is in the NT Rom 1:17
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
The OT Prophets/ Saints were Justified by Faith Righteousness [Righteousness revealed to Faith] just as the NT Apostles and Saints were Rom 3:21-22
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
This is that Faith Righteousness that most of the entire nation of israel did not have as per Rom 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Now this Righteousness is witnessed to in the Law and the Prophets Rom 3:21,22 10
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
And it was foundationed in Christ Vs 22
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
That proves that the OT Saints had Faith in Christ's blood !
It was witnessed by who in the OT ? By Abraham Gen 15:6
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness. God showed him Christ's day Jn 8:56
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Even before Abraham, Noah,for it is written of him Heb 11:7
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
And before him Abel Heb 11:4
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
This Righteousness as it is in the NT Rom 1:17
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Justification by His Blood !
Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Now Justification by His Blood means at least these two things #1 They for whom He shed His Blood and Justified, they have been made Righteous ! The word Justified here in this verse is dikaioō and means:
I.
to render righteous or such he ought to be
II.
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
III.
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
All for whom He shed His Blood are by that declared Righteous, pronounced righteous !
And its not a result of faith or believing, but in His Blood ! It could read Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified in his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
The Justification is within the sphere of the Blood, not because of an act of the creature !
Its by the blood, that satisfied Law and Justice !
#2 They for whom The blood was shed for and Justified thereby are saved from wrath, because they are delivered from the penalty of sin ! All for whom Christ died are Justified in His Blood and have been delivered from the wrath to come as Per 1 Thess 1:10
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
See when He was raised from the dead after having died for THEIR OFFENCES, that Resurrection gave Evidecnce of all for whom He died, SHED HIS BLOOD for, it was evidence of their Justification from all their offences Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
So they have been delivered from the wrath that others are not delivered from for their offecnes as Eph 5:6
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
What things ? These things Eph 5:3-5
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Those Christ died for, shed His blood for, have been saved by the blood, from wrath , which is against those things, and a lot more, this list is by no means exhaustive, but neverthess, all for whom Christ shed His Blood for, in His Blood they are delivered from the wrath to come !
Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Now Justification by His Blood means at least these two things #1 They for whom He shed His Blood and Justified, they have been made Righteous ! The word Justified here in this verse is dikaioō and means:
I.
to render righteous or such he ought to be
II.
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
III.
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
All for whom He shed His Blood are by that declared Righteous, pronounced righteous !
And its not a result of faith or believing, but in His Blood ! It could read Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified in his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
The Justification is within the sphere of the Blood, not because of an act of the creature !
Its by the blood, that satisfied Law and Justice !
#2 They for whom The blood was shed for and Justified thereby are saved from wrath, because they are delivered from the penalty of sin ! All for whom Christ died are Justified in His Blood and have been delivered from the wrath to come as Per 1 Thess 1:10
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
See when He was raised from the dead after having died for THEIR OFFENCES, that Resurrection gave Evidecnce of all for whom He died, SHED HIS BLOOD for, it was evidence of their Justification from all their offences Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
So they have been delivered from the wrath that others are not delivered from for their offecnes as Eph 5:6
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
What things ? These things Eph 5:3-5
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Those Christ died for, shed His blood for, have been saved by the blood, from wrath , which is against those things, and a lot more, this list is by no means exhaustive, but neverthess, all for whom Christ shed His Blood for, in His Blood they are delivered from the wrath to come !