Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

[Runningman]

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

After having discussed the order of the resurrection in the preceding verses, Paul immediately asked a question without directly giving the answer because it's a rhetorical question that the reader of the Bible is supposed to know the answer to. Often this verse is misinterpreted by LDS folk to mean that it's possible to perform a substitutionary water baptism for someone who has died, under the belief that water baptism is a prerequisite for eternal salvation; this part is false.

However, Paul asks these question in regards to the order of the resurrection of the righteous, not eternal salvation. Now I will give you the correct answers to Paul's rhetorical questions in plain English showing a few different Bible versions with it.

Question 1:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? KJV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? NIV
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? ESV

Answer 1:
We can reverse engineer Paul's line of thinking here by questioning why they are getting immersed if there is no resurrection of the dead. There is a resurrection of the dead and in order to take part in the resurrection you must be water baptized. That's basically what Paul is suggesting here and I will provide numerous scriptures that support it later in this post.

Question 2:
why are they then baptized for the dead? KJV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? NIV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? ESV

Answer 2:
This question is similar to the first question and so is the answer. The answer is that people are attempting to help deceased people by performing a water baptism for them so that they can be resurrected. There is no evidence from scripture that a substitutionary posthumous water baptism is effective to qualify a dead person for a resurrection, but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection.

After we understand these vital clues about Paul's water baptism theology, we can more accurately understand what the purpose of water baptism is he preached everywhere he went. It isn't about eternal salvation of the soul as some people think; Paul meant that water baptism is literally about becoming eligible to have an immortal resurrected body.

Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:
Romans 6:4-5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

Again:
Colossians 2:12
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Again:
Galatians 3:27 KJV
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Once you understand that water baptism is about the righteous getting a resurrected body in the first resurrection, you'll understand why Paul often made water baptism less important than preaching the gospel. It is more important to save as many souls as possible with the Gospel of Christ than it is to get people into the first resurrection:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV
14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[Artios1]

What if there is no juice with which to baptize

1 Cor 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized with fig juice for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then juice baptized for the dead?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Water baptism comes after the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit for example, with Cornelius and his house hold was the salvational sign that gave Peter and his companions the evidence that they had received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then came the baptism of water which is good but isn't a work of salvation. Even the thief on the cross couldn't be baptized by water.

 

[Runningman]

What if there is no juice with which to baptize

1 Cor 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized with fig juice for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then juice baptized for the dead?

If you'll look at a map of places in the Bible you'll see that from their perspective all of the places were near bodies of water. In the ancient world it was nearly impossible to maintain a town, village, or city without being planted next to a body of water or having some serious irrigation, which was rare.

Nowadays, if someone can't find a way to get baptized, then that doesn't mean that aren't saved. They will still receive eternal salvation of their soul due to their faith in the Gospel of Christ, but according to Paul, without a water baptism there isn't a resurrection which is a bit of a bummer, but not a major problem since soul salvation is still had.

 

[Runningman]

Water baptism comes after the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit for example, with Cornelius and his house hold was the salvational sign that gave Peter and his companions the evidence that they had received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then came the baptism of water which is good but isn't a work of salvation. Even the thief on the cross couldn't be baptized by water.

Definitely agreed that water baptism is not about eternal salvation of the soul.

I'm seeing Mark 16:16 from a brand new perspective today:

Mark 16:16
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Belief and baptism = salvation of the soul and body
No belief = no salvation of the soul and body

Try John 3:5 now:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is a resurrection of the dead and in order to take part in the resurrection you must be water baptized. That's basically what Paul is suggesting here and I will provide numerous scriptures that support it later in this post.

There is no doubt that this is a very difficult verse to interpret. But your interpretation cannot be supported by Scripture, since resurrection is guaranteed to all believers by Christ, who is the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25,26). Since this is the only reference to such a practice, it would seem that some of the Corinthians were being baptized for their dead friends or family members who had not been baptized, and they believed this was the pious thing to do. But this cannot be regarded as a general doctrine to guarantee resurrection.

 

[EyeWitness]

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

After having discussed the order of the resurrection in the preceding verses, Paul immediately asked a question without directly giving the answer because it's a rhetorical question that the reader of the Bible is supposed to know the answer to. Often this verse is misinterpreted by LDS folk to mean that it's possible to perform a substitutionary water baptism for someone who has died, under the belief that water baptism is a prerequisite for eternal salvation; this part is false.

However, Paul asks these question in regards to the order of the resurrection of the righteous, not eternal salvation. Now I will give you the correct answers to Paul's rhetorical questions in plain English showing a few different Bible versions with it.

Question 1:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? KJV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? NIV
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? ESV

Answer 1:
We can reverse engineer Paul's line of thinking here by questioning why they are getting immersed if there is no resurrection of the dead. There is a resurrection of the dead and in order to take part in the resurrection you must be water baptized. That's basically what Paul is suggesting here and I will provide numerous scriptures that support it later in this post.

Question 2:
why are they then baptized for the dead? KJV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? NIV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? ESV

Answer 2:
This question is similar to the first question and so is the answer. The answer is that people are attempting to help deceased people by performing a water baptism for them so that they can be resurrected. There is no evidence from scripture that a substitutionary posthumous water baptism is effective to qualify a dead person for a resurrection, but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection.

After we understand these vital clues about Paul's water baptism theology, we can more accurately understand what the purpose of water baptism is he preached everywhere he went. It isn't about eternal salvation of the soul as some people think; Paul meant that water baptism is literally about becoming eligible to have an immortal resurrected body.

Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:
Romans 6:4-5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

Again:
Colossians 2:12
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Again:
Galatians 3:27 KJV
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Once you understand that water baptism is about the righteous getting a resurrected body in the first resurrection, you'll understand why Paul often made water baptism less important than preaching the gospel. It is more important to save as many souls as possible with the Gospel of Christ than it is to get people into the first resurrection:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV
14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

I strongly urge everyone to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. It is necessary for salvation! If you say you have faith, then do as the Lord said and be properly baptized.

 

[peldom10]

Water baptism comes after the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit for example, with Cornelius and his house hold was the salvational sign that gave Peter and his companions the evidence that they had received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then came the baptism of water which is good but isn't a work of salvation. Even the thief on the cross could not be baptized by water.

We don't know that.
The Thief on the cross may have previously been baptized, fallen away in sin and resurrected by the presence of
Christ gaining his attention to return to righteousness.
Also it could have been a special dispensation of grace by Christ under the circumstances for all to see the recognition of salvation

 

[p_rehbein]

Regarding the Title of the OP, I disagree.

Water baptism is ONLY necessary in that Jesus commanded us to be water baptized. It is considered the 1st act of obedience after our salvation.

Water baptism serves as a WITNESS to both the Church and the world that a person has chosen to become a believer in and disiple of Jesus. The Holy Spirit baptism (which IS REQUIRED for salvation) is not visible to the human eye. It is a spiritual event.

That is why water baptism is necessary. In that it is visible to all mankind, and that is why Jesus was baptized (serving as an example for us), and why new believers should be water baptized. It has NOTHING to do with salvation or any such thing.

BTW: There is ONE RESURRETION

When that Eastern Sky splits, the Trump sounds, and Jesus descends from heaven to gather unto Him His Church, THAT IS IT!

 

[Mem]

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

After having discussed the order of the resurrection in the preceding verses, Paul immediately asked a question without directly giving the answer because it's a rhetorical question that the reader of the Bible is supposed to know the answer to. Often this verse is misinterpreted by LDS folk to mean that it's possible to perform a substitutionary water baptism for someone who has died, under the belief that water baptism is a prerequisite for eternal salvation; this part is false.

However, Paul asks these question in regards to the order of the resurrection of the righteous, not eternal salvation. Now I will give you the correct answers to Paul's rhetorical questions in plain English showing a few different Bible versions with it.

Question 1:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? KJV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? NIV
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? ESV

Answer 1:
We can reverse engineer Paul's line of thinking here by questioning why they are getting immersed if there is no resurrection of the dead. There is a resurrection of the dead and in order to take part in the resurrection you must be water baptized. That's basically what Paul is suggesting here and I will provide numerous scriptures that support it later in this post.

Question 2:
why are they then baptized for the dead? KJV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? NIV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? ESV

Answer 2:
This question is similar to the first question and so is the answer. The answer is that people are attempting to help deceased people by performing a water baptism for them so that they can be resurrected. There is no evidence from scripture that a substitutionary posthumous water baptism is effective to qualify a dead person for a resurrection, but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection.

After we understand these vital clues about Paul's water baptism theology, we can more accurately understand what the purpose of water baptism is he preached everywhere he went. It isn't about eternal salvation of the soul as some people think; Paul meant that water baptism is literally about becoming eligible to have an immortal resurrected body.

Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:
Romans 6:4-5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

Again:
Colossians 2:12
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Again:
Galatians 3:27 KJV
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Once you understand that water baptism is about the righteous getting a resurrected body in the first resurrection, you'll understand why Paul often made water baptism less important than preaching the gospel. It is more important to save as many souls as possible with the Gospel of Christ than it is to get people into the first resurrection:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV
14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

The context is the contention that there is no resurrection of the dead. And v, 21 says, "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man."

I wish I could go back to the first century to better understand this 'baptism for the dead.' The current interpretation steers me away from my initial assumption, which would make more sense to me than the suggested proxy baptism, that this would be indicative of a ceremonial washing of a dead body, i.e., why wash the dead if there is no resurrection, since that's it, it's done, it's over, no need to hope further.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I strongly urge everyone to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. It is necessary for salvation!

It is necessary for sanctification, not salvation. Eternal life is God's gift to the one who obeys the Gospel, and is justified by grace through faith.

 

[Runningman]

There is no doubt that this is a very difficult verse to interpret. But your interpretation cannot be supported by Scripture, since resurrection is guaranteed to all believers by Christ, who is the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25,26). Since this is the only reference to such a practice, it would seem that some of the Corinthians were being baptized for their dead friends or family members who had not been baptized, and they believed this was the pious thing to do. But this cannot be regarded as a general doctrine to guarantee resurrection.

I see you disagree, but that doesn't refute anything I just said, especially the plain text unambiguous words of Romans 6:4-5 that says water baptism is like being united with Christ in His death and which makes resurrection with Him certain. How about rather than just disagree, you show me that I am wrong with scripture.

John 11:24, 25 is about eternal life of the soul that comes through belief in Christ.

 

[Runningman]

Regarding the Title of the OP, I disagree.

Water baptism is ONLY necessary in that Jesus commanded us to be water baptized. It is considered the 1st act of obedience after our salvation.

Water baptism serves as a WITNESS to both the Church and the world that a person has chosen to become a believer in and disiple of Jesus. The Holy Spirit baptism (which IS REQUIRED for salvation) is not visible to the human eye. It is a spiritual event.

That is why water baptism is necessary. In that it is visible to all mankind, and that is why Jesus was baptized (serving as an example for us), and why new believers should be water baptized. It has NOTHING to do with salvation or any such thing.

BTW: There is ONE RESURRETION

When that Eastern Sky splits, the Trump sounds, and Jesus descends from heaven to gather unto Him His Church, THAT IS IT!

Ah I see we probably won't find any common ground here even after a lengthy chat if you think there is only one resurrection. Care to just explain how you came to the idea there is only one resurrection? That might be an interesting read. I'm always interested in hearing peoples' perspective on things, even if I disagree. Disagreeing is okay sometimes and I think this is one of those situations.

 

[Runningman]

The context is the contention that there is no resurrection of the dead. And v, 21 says, "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man."

I wish I could go back to the first century to better understand this 'baptism for the dead.' The current interpretation steers me away from my initial assumption, which would make more sense to me than the suggested proxy baptism, that this would be indicative of a ceremonial washing of a dead body, i.e., why wash the dead if there is no resurrection, since that's it, it's done, it's over, no need to hope further.

As you pointed out, there is certainly more than one way to interpret this particular passage.

"the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man"

"Jesus is the resurrection and the life"

Is it possible that Paul was making a moot point? I find that highly unlikely. I think he meant to say, since there are other scriptures to support this, that getting water baptized is necessary to be resurrected.

 

[Nehemiah6]

John 11:24, 25 is about eternal life of the soul that comes through belief in Christ.

Please read John 11:25,26 very carefully. Resurrection is guaranteed by Christ -- no ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Runningman]

Please read John 11:25,26 very carefully. Resurrection is guaranteed by Christ -- no ifs, ands, or buts.

Okay let's look at that:

John 11:24,25
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

1. Christ identifies Himself as the resurrection and the life
2. Those who believe in Him will never die

Nothing here says that through belief in Christ guarantees someone to be resurrected. Christ said they will never die. The gift of eternal life (of the soul) is promised to all of those who believe in Him. The resurrection is a different matter.

 

[Runningman]

Okay let's look at that:

John 11:24,25
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

1. Christ identifies Himself as the resurrection and the life
2. Those who believe in Him will never die

Nothing here says that through belief in Christ guarantees someone to be resurrected. Christ said they will never die. The gift of eternal life (of the soul) is promised to all of those who believe in Him. The resurrection is a different matter.

*John 11:25-27

 

[Roughsoul1991]

We don't know that.
The Thief on the cross may have previously been baptized, fallen away in sin and resurrected by the presence of
Christ gaining his attention to return to righteousness.
Also it could have been a special dispensation of grace by Christ under the circumstances for all to see the recognition of salvation

What I said was fact. I simply stated what scripture portrays. What you say is speculation. Where does scripture say he was baptized, fell away, or Christ show special grace (whatever that means).

Matthew 3:11 ESV
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The Holy Spirit baptism is where we find salvation. Repentance of sins or sacrificial ceremonial atonements was practiced all throughout the OT. It was only through faith where people were seen as righteous and not the works of the law. Faith in God moved them to follow the law. Faith in Christ is a permanent baptism of the Spirit. Water baptism is symbolic and for the outward confession of ones inner dedication.

 

[peldom10]

Regarding the Title of the OP, I disagree.

Water baptism is ONLY necessary in that Jesus commanded us to be water baptized. It is considered the 1st act of obedience after our salvation.

Water baptism serves as a WITNESS to both the Church and the world that a person has chosen to become a believer in and disiple of Jesus. The Holy Spirit baptism (which IS REQUIRED for salvation) is not visible to the human eye. It is a spiritual event.

That is why water baptism is necessary. In that it is visible to all mankind, and that is why Jesus was baptized (serving as an example for us), and why new believers should be water baptized. It has NOTHING to do with salvation or any such thing.

BTW: There is ONE RESURRETION

When that Eastern Sky splits, the Trump sounds, and Jesus descends from heaven to gather unto Him His Church, THAT IS IT!

Then you disagree with God's word.

Suggest a study of the Bible on baptism...it is required for sin cleansing;

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

many others.

Like all of God's commandments...it is mandatory.

 

[Amanuensis]

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

After having discussed the order of the resurrection in the preceding verses, Paul immediately asked a question without directly giving the answer because it's a rhetorical question that the reader of the Bible is supposed to know the answer to. Often this verse is misinterpreted by LDS folk to mean that it's possible to perform a substitutionary water baptism for someone who has died, under the belief that water baptism is a prerequisite for eternal salvation; this part is false.

However, Paul asks these question in regards to the order of the resurrection of the righteous, not eternal salvation. Now I will give you the correct answers to Paul's rhetorical questions in plain English showing a few different Bible versions with it.

Question 1:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? KJV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? NIV
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? ESV

Answer 1:
We can reverse engineer Paul's line of thinking here by questioning why they are getting immersed if there is no resurrection of the dead. There is a resurrection of the dead and in order to take part in the resurrection you must be water baptized. That's basically what Paul is suggesting here and I will provide numerous scriptures that support it later in this post.

Question 2:
why are they then baptized for the dead? KJV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? NIV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? ESV

Answer 2:
This question is similar to the first question and so is the answer. The answer is that people are attempting to help deceased people by performing a water baptism for them so that they can be resurrected. There is no evidence from scripture that a substitutionary posthumous water baptism is effective to qualify a dead person for a resurrection, but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection.

After we understand these vital clues about Paul's water baptism theology, we can more accurately understand what the purpose of water baptism is he preached everywhere he went. It isn't about eternal salvation of the soul as some people think; Paul meant that water baptism is literally about becoming eligible to have an immortal resurrected body.

Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:
Romans 6:4-5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

Again:
Colossians 2:12
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Again:
Galatians 3:27 KJV
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Once you understand that water baptism is about the righteous getting a resurrected body in the first resurrection, you'll understand why Paul often made water baptism less important than preaching the gospel. It is more important to save as many souls as possible with the Gospel of Christ than it is to get people into the first resurrection:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV
14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Paul did not make water baptism less important. He simply said he himself did not do the baptism. But as you quoted from Rom 6 he assumes every believer is baptized in water.

Also we should pay attention to the context of Romans 6 and Gal 3 that he is focused on living free from sin's slavery in this life when he is identifying with the death of Christ through baptism. Yes resurrection is promised but there is resurrection life now, as we are no longer slaves of sin and can tap into the victorious life called Newness of Life and not keep sinning just because we are under grace. We all know that people getting baptized while continuing in sinful living does them no good at all. We that have faith and repent believe we are dead to sin and alive to Christ and this is about this life as much as it is a hope in the resurrection future.

Crucified with Christ. Dead to sin. No longer giving sin an excuse to reign in our mortal bodies.