I am not saying Born again has to do with the breaking of a womans water. I am saying that that is the first birth the physical birth. Let me try this a different way. Last year my 13 month granddaughter died from a heart complex; she never got baptized, she never had the chance to choose to follow God or Satan; I am sure that she is with the Father. She was born of water from her mothers womb, lived 13 months and God took her home. What you are saying is she never got baptized so she is lost.
John 3:9-18
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? with a pen most likely on parchment haha by the wisdom of the Holy Ghost
You know what else ? John was baptized in water for remission of sins.
but your not hearing my point
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?”
John 3:3-4
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
John 3:5
he isn’t explaining how a man is born as a baby in the flesh , he’s explaining how a man is born again in the spirit.
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
that’s how a man is born a second time the flesh has nothing to do with it , nor the water of a woman’s womb. It’s about being born a second time of water , spirit And blood.
The water God promised in the prophets that would witness to the blood God promised in the prophets and bring the spirit God promised in the prophets.
“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Acts 22:16 KJV
“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:47-48 KJV
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
Acts 8:36-38 KJV
“….in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV
When someone believes Jesus does for thier sins and hear the faith of baptism and respond . It becomes a conscience that has now done what God said remits sin. They have agreed to Gods word and should rest understanding tbker sins are washed away because of the shed blood of Jesus and their dsith in Gods operation
baptism hasn’t changed the spirit just wasn’t given until Christ rose up into the heavens and sent it at pentocost as you see after that baptism didn’t change the apostles kept baptizing in water for remission of sins and received the promises of God to remit thier sins and give them freely the Holy Spirit.
how can a man born again when he is old ? Be born of Gods water , Gods blood and Gods spirit.
brother it’s alright if you see it different I’m okay with that I hope you also are
You know what else ? John was baptized in water for remission of sins.
but your not hearing my point
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?”
John 3:3-4
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
John 3:5
he isn’t explaining how a man is born as a baby in the flesh , he’s explaining how a man is born again in the spirit.
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
that’s how a man is born a second time the flesh has nothing to do with it , nor the water of a woman’s womb. It’s about being born a second time of water , spirit And blood.
The water God promised in the prophets that would witness to the blood God promised in the prophets and bring the spirit God promised in the prophets.
“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Acts 22:16 KJV
“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:47-48 KJV
“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
Acts 8:36-38 KJV
“….in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV
When someone believes Jesus does for thier sins and hear the faith of baptism and respond . It becomes a conscience that has now done what God said remits sin. They have agreed to Gods word and should rest understanding tbker sins are washed away because of the shed blood of Jesus and their dsith in Gods operation
baptism hasn’t changed the spirit just wasn’t given until Christ rose up into the heavens and sent it at pentocost as you see after that baptism didn’t change the apostles kept baptizing in water for remission of sins and received the promises of God to remit thier sins and give them freely the Holy Spirit.
how can a man born again when he is old ? Be born of Gods water , Gods blood and Gods spirit.
brother it’s alright if you see it different I’m okay with that I hope you also are
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what good does a natural birth do for being born again ? Everyone is born in the flesh , and everyone you read about in the New Testament was baptized in water for remission of sins.
dwell on the question “ how can a man be born again ? And why did they all get baptized In Water for remission of sins ? And receive the Holy Ghost ? And why did Jesus shed his blood ?
dwell on the question “ how can a man be born again ? And why did they all get baptized In Water for remission of sins ? And receive the Holy Ghost ? And why did Jesus shed his blood ?
The answer lies in 1 John and why the Apostle John wrote it.
Remember John also wrote the Gospel of John = ch3
Therefore the key is to know why he said/wrote it.
i can answer you directly but it is better for you to discover these things.
Last clue: There are Saints in Heaven who never were baptized in water, HOWEVER, there is not one Saint in Heaven who was not born of water(womb/flesh) and of the Spirit.
Remember John also wrote the Gospel of John = ch3
Therefore the key is to know why he said/wrote it.
i can answer you directly but it is better for you to discover these things.
Last clue: There are Saints in Heaven who never were baptized in water, HOWEVER, there is not one Saint in Heaven who was not born of water(womb/flesh) and of the Spirit.
“You said nothing about the serviceman that gets saved and before he can get baptized ends up getting killed or a death bed confession or someone on the way home from an evangelist revival like Billey Graham used to do.. As for a baby are you saying that it is not alive in the mother's womb? It is this type of teaching Jesus was talking about when He said the doctrine of men make void the word of God.”
“You have not showed me the verse that says water baptism saves a person”
probably because I’ve never said that water saves anyone.
and to answer your question about someone who does before they get baptized ive said before “ I don’t believe not getting baptized is going to condemn anyone “ believing the gospel is what saves a person
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
it doesn’t say “ he that believes the gospel and then doesn’t get baptized because they suddenly die is damned “
So no I’ve never said anything like that. My point is if we’re here discussing the Bible we’re probably not about to die suddenly so we can’t get baptized.
believing the gospel saves people baptism for remission of sins is part of the gospel there’s no reason for any Christian to not believe if they don’t believe in baptism for remission of sins getting baptized would be no benefit anyhow. It’s an operation of faith if we don’t believe something , doing it isn’t going to benefit us.
but like I was saying you don’t need to agree with me , but no I’m not saying if someone believes and doesn’t get baptized throne condemned, you won’t find that anywhere in any post I’ve written since bekng here
my point is doctrine is very clear about water baptism when we start letting from clear doctrine in the gospel it’s going to still always say the same thing.
every Christian that believes this is true
“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Matthew 26:28 KJV
should then act in faith and do this and receive the promise
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
notice Peter isn’t explaining “ baptism isn’t needed just receive the spirit “
and notice how faith works
“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
Acts 2:41 KJV
They just believed what he said after he preached Jesus to them so they were glad to get baptized
“You have not showed me the verse that says water baptism saves a person”
probably because I’ve never said that water saves anyone.
and to answer your question about someone who does before they get baptized ive said before “ I don’t believe not getting baptized is going to condemn anyone “ believing the gospel is what saves a person
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
it doesn’t say “ he that believes the gospel and then doesn’t get baptized because they suddenly die is damned “
So no I’ve never said anything like that. My point is if we’re here discussing the Bible we’re probably not about to die suddenly so we can’t get baptized.
believing the gospel saves people baptism for remission of sins is part of the gospel there’s no reason for any Christian to not believe if they don’t believe in baptism for remission of sins getting baptized would be no benefit anyhow. It’s an operation of faith if we don’t believe something , doing it isn’t going to benefit us.
but like I was saying you don’t need to agree with me , but no I’m not saying if someone believes and doesn’t get baptized throne condemned, you won’t find that anywhere in any post I’ve written since bekng here
my point is doctrine is very clear about water baptism when we start letting from clear doctrine in the gospel it’s going to still always say the same thing.
every Christian that believes this is true
“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Matthew 26:28 KJV
should then act in faith and do this and receive the promise
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
notice Peter isn’t explaining “ baptism isn’t needed just receive the spirit “
and notice how faith works
“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
Acts 2:41 KJV
They just believed what he said after he preached Jesus to them so they were glad to get baptized
no brother the saints were all baptized into Moses through the sea and in the cloud where he received the word of the spirit.
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 KJV
even before that those of Noahs days were submerged in water and then heard the gospel later after Jesus died
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
1 Peter 3:18-21 KJV
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 KJV
even before that those of Noahs days were submerged in water and then heard the gospel later after Jesus died
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
1 Peter 3:18-21 KJV
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Water baptism is symbolic of Christ's death and resurrection = thus we symbolically agree that we must die(complete submersion) to sin = Christ's death on the Cross and then we rise UP from the water(death/grave) in His Resurrection.
This is only symbolic and has no spiritual value unto Salvation as that is done by the Blood and the Spirit.
I can speak more as to why the Lord commanded that they baptise - another time.
Good Nite and blessing and again love the discussion with you.
This is only symbolic and has no spiritual value unto Salvation as that is done by the Blood and the Spirit.
I can speak more as to why the Lord commanded that they baptise - another time.
Good Nite and blessing and again love the discussion with you.
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Jesus explains the New Birth by using the true, God created natural experiences of life for all to understand.
A.) You cannot be Born-Again unless you are first born from a woman thru water.
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
(now Jesus explains Himself clearly)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, = 1st birth
and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. = 2nd birth
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
B.) DO NOT ADD WATER = watch How Jesus explains it.
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
(Wind is invisible and cannot be traced to it's origin, whereas water can be seen and traced back to it's origin)
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” = Jesus never includes water baptism for the second birth
The conclusion of the whole matter is the LORD uses the natural elements that Nicodemus could immediately identify.
Natural birth thru a womans water is instantly recognized by Nicodemus and is confirmed by the LORD = that which is flesh is flesh.
Spirit Birth is thru the Spirit only.
Therefore the LORD again uses a natural element of unseen wind to describe the UNSEEN Spirit of God.
The LORD isolates WIND/SPIRIT and separates it from WATER/FLESH
The LORD does not incorporate the natural element of water baptism for the Second Birth.
"If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"
A.) You cannot be Born-Again unless you are first born from a woman thru water.
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
(now Jesus explains Himself clearly)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, = 1st birth
and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. = 2nd birth
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
B.) DO NOT ADD WATER = watch How Jesus explains it.
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
(Wind is invisible and cannot be traced to it's origin, whereas water can be seen and traced back to it's origin)
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” = Jesus never includes water baptism for the second birth
The conclusion of the whole matter is the LORD uses the natural elements that Nicodemus could immediately identify.
Natural birth thru a womans water is instantly recognized by Nicodemus and is confirmed by the LORD = that which is flesh is flesh.
Spirit Birth is thru the Spirit only.
Therefore the LORD again uses a natural element of unseen wind to describe the UNSEEN Spirit of God.
The LORD isolates WIND/SPIRIT and separates it from WATER/FLESH
The LORD does not incorporate the natural element of water baptism for the Second Birth.
"If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"
I agree 
Amniotic fluid is of the natural and has nothing whatsoever to do with a Spiritual rebirth There is water (H2O) present in amniotic fluid, but also electrolytes, proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, phospholipids, urea, and fetal urine. Anyone want to drink that? Ick!
The Bible uses the word water figuratively to signify both the cleansing properties of the Holy Spirit, and as a source of power. As Paul says, we are sanctified and cleansed with the washing of water by the Word. Jesus said, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." This water that Jesus speaks of cannot be H2O. Scripture also states: "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He (Jesus) spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Amniotic fluid is of the natural and has nothing whatsoever to do with a Spiritual rebirth There is water (H2O) present in amniotic fluid, but also electrolytes, proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, phospholipids, urea, and fetal urine. Anyone want to drink that? Ick! The Bible uses the word water figuratively to signify both the cleansing properties of the Holy Spirit, and as a source of power. As Paul says, we are sanctified and cleansed with the washing of water by the Word. Jesus said, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." This water that Jesus speaks of cannot be H2O. Scripture also states: "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He (Jesus) spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
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I agree because Jesus was using natural things to explain spiritual things yet, it takes the Holy Spirit to give a person the understanding of The Word….
Jesus Christ would speak a parable then say, “he that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying.”
Jesus Christ spoke of natural birth but, only to explain spiritual birth…. everyone born from Adam dies but, everyone born again from the incorruptible Seed of Jesus Christ shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus Christ would speak a parable then say, “he that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying.”
Jesus Christ spoke of natural birth but, only to explain spiritual birth…. everyone born from Adam dies but, everyone born again from the incorruptible Seed of Jesus Christ shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Well, what I’m about to post may seem odd but…..oh well…
Ponder how Mary became pregnant and gave birth to Jesus Christ….
A Word directly from God is spoken to a person in the physical realm and they hear it… (the Gospel preached about salvation)…
“the Holy Spirit shall overshadow you and that holy seed shall be called the Son of God.”
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 1:35&version=NIV
Mary believed….and we have believed also.
The birthing process is still in labor…. the Head is out but we’re in the final push for the birth of the Body of Christ.
In the birthing process there is blood and water and the Spirit must be present to give Life - the Breath of God to the child.
Ponder how Mary became pregnant and gave birth to Jesus Christ….
A Word directly from God is spoken to a person in the physical realm and they hear it… (the Gospel preached about salvation)…
“the Holy Spirit shall overshadow you and that holy seed shall be called the Son of God.”
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 1:35&version=NIV
Mary believed….and we have believed also.
The birthing process is still in labor…. the Head is out but we’re in the final push for the birth of the Body of Christ.
In the birthing process there is blood and water and the Spirit must be present to give Life - the Breath of God to the child.
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I agree Amniotic fluid is of the natural and has nothing whatsoever to do with a Spiritual rebirth There is water (H2O) present in amniotic fluid, but also electrolytes, proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, phospholipids, urea, and fetal urine. Anyone want to drink that? Ick!
The Bible uses the word water figuratively to signify both the cleansing properties of the Holy Spirit, and as a source of power. As Paul says, we are sanctified and cleansed with the washing of water by the Word. Jesus said, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." This water that Jesus speaks of cannot be H2O. Scripture also states: "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He (Jesus) spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Amniotic fluid is of the natural and has nothing whatsoever to do with a Spiritual rebirth There is water (H2O) present in amniotic fluid, but also electrolytes, proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, phospholipids, urea, and fetal urine. Anyone want to drink that? Ick! The Bible uses the word water figuratively to signify both the cleansing properties of the Holy Spirit, and as a source of power. As Paul says, we are sanctified and cleansed with the washing of water by the Word. Jesus said, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." This water that Jesus speaks of cannot be H2O. Scripture also states: "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He (Jesus) spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Correct - they emphasize the outward ritual and 'ordination by man for man' and minimise the Spirit.
There are souls in Heaven who have not been baptized in water.
AND
There are souls in Hell who have been baptized in water.
BUT
The only souls in Heaven are they who have been Born-Again thru the Spirit of God.
There are souls in Heaven who have not been baptized in water.
AND
There are souls in Hell who have been baptized in water.
BUT
The only souls in Heaven are they who have been Born-Again thru the Spirit of God.
yes I agree that’s sort of my point regarding a new birth. We have the natural which is meaningless in terms of what the Bible is talking about. But we have all three spoken forth by God the water of remission of sins , the word of remission of sins and of course the blood shed for remission of sins
these three witnesses agree upon remission of sins , in order to remit the witnesses needed for imputation of sin by the law of sin and death
“This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
2 Corinthians 13:1 KJV
“But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.”
Matthew 18:16 KJV
“At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.”
Deuteronomy 17:6 KJV
it is only my wierd thinking but it makes sense that since two or three witnesses are needed to impute sin according to the law , and also the gospel. God has provided remission of sins by his witness.
which his testimony is greater than any mans in these three the water provided by Gods word , the blood provided by Gods word and the spirit provided by Gods word.
makes relatively good sense to me anyways
these three witnesses agree upon remission of sins , in order to remit the witnesses needed for imputation of sin by the law of sin and death
“This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
2 Corinthians 13:1 KJV
“But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.”
Matthew 18:16 KJV
“At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.”
Deuteronomy 17:6 KJV
it is only my wierd thinking but it makes sense that since two or three witnesses are needed to impute sin according to the law , and also the gospel. God has provided remission of sins by his witness.
which his testimony is greater than any mans in these three the water provided by Gods word , the blood provided by Gods word and the spirit provided by Gods word.
makes relatively good sense to me anyways