Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[ewq1938]

I think you are very wise. So far I've found that the post arguments fizzle out and the pre arguments get stronger.

Google the word Apostasia and tell me what it means.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Revelation 21:3 (ESV)
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

Revelation 22:3–4 (ESV)
3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

The throne will be in the new Jerusalem in the new Earth. We will have new glorified bodies and we will be in the presence of Jesus forevermore. A new Earth is the new restored Eden.

amen I agree our time in heaven after we pass away from this world , is only until He restores the new earth and returns as in the beginning. What we see there in revelation has always been his Will he says it multiple times but man kept failing him

It was even offered in the law

“If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; …..And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

…..But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:3, 11-12, 14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they chose the curse and broke the covenant it’s what he designed at creation for man and God to dwell together on the earth apart from sin and death we corrupted everything and he went into the heavens so he didn’t destroy us now he’s offered salvstion through Christ , calling us into the heavens until he deetroys everything and renews creation for us all

it’s been happening all
Along

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Google the word Apostasia and tell me what it means.

“ sent one “ or “sent messenger”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“ sent one “ or “sent messenger”

lol sorry I have bad eyes ^^^

 

[ewq1938]

“ sent one “ or “sent messenger”

That's not what the word means. It's a Greek word.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That's not what the word means. It's a Greek word.

yes I know I have bad eyesight up close I thought you asked “ apostle “

 

[DavidTree]

Heaven and the clouds are something he must descend from but the clouds is as far as He goes. We meet Him in the clouds.

The second coming has no stopping place. It is war.

Keep following the words of our LORD and you will be on the path of Truth.

But do not add or take away from Scripture for that only produces confusion - which we must to avoid as it does not come from God.
God is not the author of confusion.

1 Thess 4:13-18 & Revelation 1:7
A.) Christ leaves Heaven and descends to where we are.
B.) He remains in the clouds above our heads where "every eye shall see Him"
C.) He sounds the Trumpet call - the Last Trump - and the Dead in Christ are Resurrected
D.) After that the remaining Saints who are alive at His Coming are raptured up to meet the resurrected Saints in the clouds
E.) more to events to take place according to the Word

 

[DavidTree]

If you use the Holy Spirit you can do it yourself, there is no need in me wasting my time when no matter what evidence I supply you could care less because you think you already know, when you don't. But all those who mislead people today will have to answer after they get to heaven. There will be people in hell, who could have been saved but tarried too long actually believing they had to go through the tribulation no matter what choice they made, which is a of course just a master untruth from Satan.

I am on this discussion to compare scripture with scripture to make sure I know the Truth.

Don't be shy or negative - be informative and follow the straight and narrow path that leads to Life.

 

[Evmur]

I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?

Jesus is a post tribber so you're outta luck with that one

"after the the tribulation of those days .... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus is a post tribber so you're outta luck with that one
"after the the tribulation of those days .... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory

You have confused the Second Coming of Christ with the Resurrection/Rapture. These are two very distinct and different events separated by at least 7 years.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do my eyes deceive me?

Here's someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

What a refreshing read.

Thanks for posting.

Why, thank you. I just read the Bible and take it for what it says.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hello Lori
I am a staunch, (as in nonnegotiable ) pretrib premillenniallist. I think the rapture is one of the most solid biblical doctrines there is in all of the Bible.

OK then. Please quote the very best verse that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

That would settle the matter totally.

 

[FreeGrace2]

A singular resurrection of the saved is unlikely due to Revelation 20:5 referring to the post-millennial kingdom resurrection as the first resurrection.

Well, the Bible says that resurrection is the first. So I believe it. And the Bible describes the resurrection of the saved in the singular every time. And I believe that.

Rev 20:5 actually involves 2 resurrections; that of the saved, which is the FIRST, and that of the unsaved, which will occur for the GWT judgment.

Check post 274.

 

[DavidTree]

You have confused the Second Coming of Christ with the Resurrection/Rapture. These are two very distinct and different events separated by at least 7 years.

The aspect of the 7 years spoken of in Daniel is intriguing.

Can you bring forth and post the scriptures where our LORD and the Apostles mention the 7 Years - thank you.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You have confused the Second Coming of Christ with the Resurrection/Rapture. These are two very distinct and different events separated by at least 7 years.

How about you define the term “rapture”? We all know that means being “caught up”, but you could be “caught up” in a lot of situations, that doesn’t necessarily mean a sudden disappearance, teleportation or ascension. The only event similar to Jesus’s resurrection and ascension is the resurrection and ascension of the Two Witnesses, but that’s AFTER the three and half years, which means POST trib.

 

[FreeGrace2]

How about you define the term “rapture”? We all know that means being “caught up”, but you could be “caught up” in a lot of situations, that doesn’t necessarily mean a sudden disappearance, teleportation or ascension. The only event similar to Jesus’s resurrection and ascension is the resurrection and ascension of the Two Witnesses, but that’s AFTER the three and half years, which means POST trib.

Correct, "rapture" doesn't mean a glorified trip to heaven. Not even the 2W were given glorified bodies and taken to heaven. They were taken to heaven, but even they are awaiting their glorified bodies, which will occur "when He comes", as 1 Cor 15:23 says:

But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Red words: Second Advent

Blue words: EVERY believer from Adam forward

This verse summarizes the singular resurrection of the saved. All saved will be given glorified bodies at the same event; "when He comes".

Jesus doesn't come back until after the 2W are taken to heaven. They will taken to heaven the SAME WAY they were taken the first time they went to heaven.

 

[Runningman]

Well, the Bible says that resurrection is the first. So I believe it. And the Bible describes the resurrection of the saved in the singular every time. And I believe that.

Rev 20:5 actually involves 2 resurrections; that of the saved, which is the FIRST, and that of the unsaved, which will occur for the GWT judgment.

Check post 274.

And I believe the Bible, too, but it abbreviates a lot of things, generalizes, summarizes, in really vague ways. For example, when we divide the word it requires cross referencing maybe a dozen verses just to build a doctrine because it isn’t plainly stated in a singular place what you want to try to prove.

The more imprecise something is the more convoluted it becomes. Nothing you have said in post 274 directly undermines what I just said.

Your point about all resurrections being referred to in the singular isn’t really what is happening. Yes the first resurrection before the MK is a singular resurrection, but so is the resurrection after it. This is just so the syntax and semantics are clear to the reader.

A perfect example of this is John 5:29:

John 5:29
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This verse sounds like there is a singular resurrection of the good and damned, but actually this isn’t a singular resurrection, there are two different resurrections spread out over a span of over 1,000 years.

The first resurrection has two groups, each group experiencing a singular resurrection, separated by a period of 1,000 years per Revelation 20:5.

I hope that makes more sense.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The New Earth is not for the children of God who are within the Royal Priesthood. Their eternal home is the New Jerusalem. However it is for redeemed and restored Israel and the saved nations surrounding it.

If you are saying that as glorified bodies we are not on the new Earth then I disagree but if you are saying we will have different roles then sure that may be the case. Even though I also believe we all are brought into the royal priesthood through the blood and being reborn as God's children.

But this is also getting into describing eternity and there is much we do not know.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Hi RS,

Yes I agree about the new earth. However the city was promised to the OT saints (Heb. 11: 16) NOT us, the Body of Christ. Our inheritance is in the highest with Christ on His seat of authority. (Rev. 3: 21) Note: His authority (represented by `throne,`) is in all of God`s great kingdom.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

`...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

Revelation 21:3
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

To me it is clear that Heaven and Earth will be intertwined as we will be in presence of the Lord who now dwells among the people and God's throne is with them. God's dwelling place is where we are.

Galatians 3:28–29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

We are included in the Abraham promise and heirs to that promise. Technically in the eyes of God we are one in Christ.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

amen I agree our time in heaven after we pass away from this world , is only until He restores the new earth and returns as in the beginning. What we see there in revelation has always been his Will he says it multiple times but man kept failing him

It was even offered in the law

“If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; …..And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

…..But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:3, 11-12, 14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they chose the curse and broke the covenant it’s what he designed at creation for man and God to dwell together on the earth apart from sin and death we corrupted everything and he went into the heavens so he didn’t destroy us now he’s offered salvstion through Christ , calling us into the heavens until he deetroys everything and renews creation for us all

it’s been happening all
Along

I agree and so excited to see and experience that type of place where we can easily fellowship with Jesus, the apostles, the martyrs, etc and enjoy the paradise God created.