Doctrine of Unconditional Election

rogerg · Mar 31, 2022

Either God gives it to us as a gift, or it has to be of ourselves. I say it is, and can only be, from God though Christ as Saviour. You believe otherwise. There is no middle ground. Which do you believe? And you are evading my question. Why is that so hard for you to answer?

Magenta · Mar 31, 2022

rogerg said:

Where have I said I believe otherwise?

Everlasting-Grace · Mar 31, 2022

rogerg said:

Sorry, But this is not scriptural. And puts Gods character on the line..

Yet God so loved THE WORLD, he gave his only son, that WHOEVER (of this world) believes....

The HS is sent to the WORLD to convict of sin righteousness and judgment

Jesus was sent to the LOST (that would be every one of us who has not recieved the gift of Salvation)

Everlasting-Grace · Mar 31, 2022

Magenta said:

they do not understand what we believe, they were told what we believe and they will listen blindly whether it is true or not

Magenta · Mar 31, 2022

Everlasting-Grace said:

Somehow me asking "who says we generate faith of ourselves" gets twisted into me not believing in Jesus.

A pretense is put forth that I was asked a question I was not, have said things I did not, believe things
I do not, don't believe that which I do, and all manner of nonsense that he demands I answer to.

All while he refuses to answer a simple straightforward question.

Then he accuses me of evasion. LOL!

Good thing we know who the father of all lies is

rogerg · Mar 31, 2022

Everlasting-Grace said:

Oh, but it is scriptural:

[Jhn 6:37 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Everlasting-Grace said:

He does not love this world but He

Everlasting-Grace said:

loves the world to come that He loves. Please observe:

[1Jo 2:15 KJV]
15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

[Jhn 18:36 KJV]
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Everlasting-Grace said:

Jesus was sent to save those, and only those, that the Father gave to Him

[Jhn 6:37 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

rogerg · Mar 31, 2022

Everlasting-Grace said:

Okay, what do you "we" believe? Is it by Christ alone as Saviour, or is it otherwise. You can clarify it right now.
Please be specific.

fredoheaven · Mar 31, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Umm, because you jump into another passage of scripture, you did not even counter my proposition in Romans 1:16, not a bit. Now looking into the context of 1 Thess.1:4-5, you have missed v.3 that the election is referring to as service. Noticed the word "work of faith", labour of love, and patience of hope" these are actually the fruit of our service, they are what the election of God Paul is being referred to. Understanding what the gospel of Christ results in salvation through faith and we're elected of God to service.

fredoheaven · Mar 31, 2022

rogerg said:

Umm, quite a difference to what Paul is saying. Romans 1:16 is how we are saved. Galatians 5:22 are for those who are already saved.

kaylagrl · Mar 31, 2022

brightfame52 said:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The Word says he loved/loves the whole word. You're maligning the character of God.

John146 · Mar 31, 2022

kaylagrl said:

But we all know that the whosoever is only going to be those God has elected....

brightfame52 · Mar 31, 2022

fredoheaven said:

Umm, because you jump into another passage of scripture, you did not even counter my proposition in Romans 1:16, not a bit. Now looking into the context of 1 Thess.1:4-5, you have missed v.3 that the election is referring to as service. Noticed the word "work of faith", labour of love, and patience of hope" these are actually the fruit of our service, they are what the election of God Paul is being referred to. Understanding what the gospel of Christ results in salvation through faith and we're elected of God to service.

Like stated, you have it backwards.

brightfame52 · Mar 31, 2022

kaylagrl said:

Okay, doesnt change anything. God made some people for the purpose of magnifying His justice by the damming them for their sins, and He made others, the vessels of Mercy to magnify His Mercy and Grace, Rom 9

rogerg · Mar 31, 2022

fredoheaven said:

Christ Himself IS the gospel of Christ, and He alone IS the power of God unto salvation. I'd have to say
that i agree with you, that Galatians 5:22 is for those who are already saved - that actually was my point: that true faith can only be obtained from, by, and when, someone becomes saved, but not before.

kaylagrl · Mar 31, 2022

rogerg said:

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse" (Romans 1:20)

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt.24

That is how I know.

rogerg said:

They go to heaven, the same as King David could know his son went to heaven.

rogerg said:

, “For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. (Isaiah 7:16; ESV)

rogerg said:

I believe what the Word says...

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse" (Romans 1:20)

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matt.24

Jer. 13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

rogerg said:

My "doctrine" is the verses posted above. No one will stand before God and say I didn't have a chance to know You. That is the Word. Take it or leave it.

rogerg · Mar 31, 2022

Everlasting-Grace said:

Disagree. We are saved solely by His mercy, and nothing we may, or may not have done. If we contribute anything to it, it can't be
by His mercy. Everything else flows from, by, that.

[Tit 3:5 KJV] 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

rogerg · Mar 31, 2022

kaylagrl said:

Nope - you have the wrong world in view. God is referring to the world to come, not this current world. He does not love this world.
Please observe

[1Jo 2:15 KJV] 15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

kaylagrl · Mar 31, 2022

brightfame52 said:

“And he (Jesus) is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2

“There is NOOOO respect of persons with God.” Romans 2:11

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALLLLLL men unto me.” John 12:32

“one died for ALL” – 2 Corinthians 5:14.

“he died for all” – 2 Corinthians 5:15.

God sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of “the WHOLE world” – 1 John 2:2

Whosoever will...

Everlasting-Grace · Mar 31, 2022

rogerg said:

Oh but its not. Because a few verses later. Jesus said it is the will of the father that everyone who sees and believes.

Everyone there saw Jesus, But as jesus said, some could not hear what he was saying, because they did not believe.

So Jesus lied??

Ok whatever

Jesus loves his creation. He will not however, force his creation to love him. FOr this reason he has places us ALL under sin through adam, that all may be (have the possibility) to be made alive in christ.

Yep

That same world. he came to die for. So those in the world could be saved.

God is not a respector of persons.. We are all guilty. and God died for us all..

Everlasting-Grace · Mar 31, 2022

rogerg said:

Its christ alone my friend.

The person who was drowning and totally helpless and unable to save himself did not earn his salvation because he had faith in the one who came to rescue him and said yes.

The one who saved him gets all the credit.

Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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