Do we stress baptism enough?
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Okay that's fine, thank you for your honesty, but you don't cross me as the type who thinks they have anything left to learn. After having written you a good write up I have decided to rescind it in favor of letting you go your own way since you seem to want to disagree with the Bible every time I show you what it says. I think I'll open a new thread on this later so it gets a bit more recognition and not buried here in this thread.
-
1
- Show all
That's what Runningman said it wasn't 
What did people think verses like John 1:12 meant?
John 1:12 KJV
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
So believe on His name. Is that like believing in the textbook definition of the name Jesus? or is it believing in the authority Jesus has?
Here's another one:
Colossians 3:17 KJV
17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
So does this mean just utter the words "in the name of Jesus" after whatsoever we do? Or does it mean by the authority of Jesus.
I think this is really key to understanding the Bible. It's a shame people are seeing this as disrespectful. There are so many more passages about this topic.
-
1
- Show all
My pleasure Brother. Just felt it in my heart that it was better to just not continue to engage that comment with more scripture. What I was going to write up, I think, it actually really interesting and valuable. I'll post something on it tomorrow. You'll see it come through later I guess, it'll be something about water baptism and the resurrection.
I like the way that you parted ways with the alternate person. I'd like to us all follow that specific example. We could have have greater dialog with each other if we were just kind. It's when we start going off that things become twisted. So again, the manner in which you conducted yourself was most noteworthy.
Baptism of the Blood of Jesus is required for sin cleansing ------without the shed Blood of Christ you are not cleared of Any Sin ---your doomed ----Period -----
So good luck on the other side of this Physical world with your water Baptism cleansing your sins ---the new Water Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ----you can profess for Faith for Christ in your pool but that will not cleanse your sins under the New Covenant ------
Good Luck
So good luck on the other side of this Physical world with your water Baptism cleansing your sins ---the new Water Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ----you can profess for Faith for Christ in your pool but that will not cleanse your sins under the New Covenant ------
Good Luck
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Really?
Then go back to the Bible for guidance...here I will help;
Baptism of the Blood of Jesus is required for sin cleansing ------without the shed Blood of Christ you are not cleared of Any Sin ---your doomed ----Period -----
So good luck on the other side of this Physical world with your water Baptism cleansing your sins ---the new Water Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ----you can profess for Faith for Christ in your pool but that will not cleanse your sins under the New Covenant ------
Good Luck
So good luck on the other side of this Physical world with your water Baptism cleansing your sins ---the new Water Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ----you can profess for Faith for Christ in your pool but that will not cleanse your sins under the New Covenant ------
Good Luck
Christs' sacrifice on the cross gives us the umbrella of forgiveness.......known as ...grace.
It is God's design that we must repent and be baptized for sin cleansing.......are you from another planet...without a Bible?
How does this align with the Apostle Paul's experience? After Jesus confronted Paul, we see repentance in action as outlined in Acts 22:7-10. (see below) However, Paul's sins were not remitted at that point. This is confirmed by what happens afterward. Ananias tells Paul to be baptized in order to have his sins washed away. (Acts 22:16) Ananias made another important point in verse 15. He told Paul he would be a witness to all men of what he has seen and heard.
Acts 22:7-10
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
Acts 22:15-16
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:7-10
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
Acts 22:15-16
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
It is the Spirit that brings about the spiritual reality of being buried with Jesus. And this cannot occur unless a person is obedient to the command to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
And actually the baptism of the Holy Spirit involves the Spirit having come to dwell within the body of the believer.
And actually the baptism of the Holy Spirit involves the Spirit having come to dwell within the body of the believer.
Even cultists are fully convinced in their own mind that what they believe is the true gospel and do so with a clear conscience. So your oversimplified approach to demystifying all confusion doesn’t really work in the real world.
If it worked then that would be a miracle. It only works on small groups of people who trust you and like you. That’s why we’re supposed to love people and be gentle and understanding because it’s attractive and makes people want what you have. Being arrogant and superior and self-righteous is repulsive. Some people just haven’t figured this out yet and probably never well.
If it worked then that would be a miracle. It only works on small groups of people who trust you and like you. That’s why we’re supposed to love people and be gentle and understanding because it’s attractive and makes people want what you have. Being arrogant and superior and self-righteous is repulsive. Some people just haven’t figured this out yet and probably never well.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
What many don't realize is that the use of titles (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) in the phrase, rather than the name of Jesus, was instituted around 325 A.D by forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church. This man-made tradition usurped God's command as witnessed from the biblical record. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Jesus said my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. And, it is my sincere desire to provide people with accurate information so they can make an informed decision regarding water baptism. I, too, at one time, was in the dark as to the corruption, and thank God that He led me to the truth.
If that is what you believe then that is your belief ---so good luck with that
the requirement of water Baptism would be works as YOU YOURSELF have to do Something to be Cleansed of Sin ---that is not Grace -------go figure --Salvation is a free gift we only have to Believe -----
To have to be Baptised in a pool is you doing a work for forgiveness of sins -------it is not Grace ------
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-1Peter-3-21.html
Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation
As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"
Those who believe that baptism is required for salvation are quick to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a “proof text,” because it states “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter really saying that the act of being baptized is what saves us? If he were, he would be contradicting many other passages of Scripture that clearly show people being saved (as evidenced by their receiving the Holy Spirit) prior to being baptized or without being baptized at all. A good example of someone who was saved before being baptized is Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. We know that they were saved before being baptized because they had received the Holy Spirit, which is the evidence of salvation (Romans 8:9; Ephesians 1:13; 1 John 3:24). The evidence of their salvation was the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized. Countless passages of Scripture clearly teach that salvation comes when one believes in the gospel, at which time he or she is sealed “in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).
Thankfully, though, we don’t have to guess at what Peter means in this verse because he clarifies that for us with the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.” While Peter is connecting baptism with salvation, it is not the act of being baptized that he is referring to (not the removal of dirt from the flesh). Being immersed in water does nothing but wash away dirt. What Peter is referring to is what baptism represents, which is what saves us (an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ). In other words, Peter is simply connecting baptism with belief. It is not the getting wet part that saves but the “appeal to God for a clean conscience” which is signified by baptism, that saves us. The appeal to God always comes first. First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.
An excellent explanation of this passage is given by Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament. “Water baptism is clearly in the apostle’s mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.'
"So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer’s inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, 'not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.' Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words 'the answer of a good conscience toward God," and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, 'by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,' in that the believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.”
Part of the confusion on this passage comes from the fact that in many ways the purpose of baptism as a public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and identification with Him has been replaced by “making a decision for Christ” or “praying a sinner’s prayer.” Baptism has been relegated to something that is done later. Yet to Peter or any of the first-century Christians, the idea that a person would confess Christ as his Savior and not be baptized as soon as possible would have been unheard of. Therefore, it is not surprising that Peter would see baptism as almost synonymous with salvation. Yet Peter makes it clear in this verse that it is not the ritual itself that saves, but the fact that we are united with Christ in His resurrection through faith, “the pledge of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).
Therefore, the baptism that Peter says saves us is the one that is preceded by faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that justifies the unrighteous sinner (Romans 3:25-26; 4:5). Baptism is the outward sign of what God has done “by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read all for yourselves
https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA79/is-baptism-necessary-for-salvation
Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?
No. Let's examine what the Scriptures teach on this issue:
First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15 and Romans 4 that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9, etc.).
the requirement of water Baptism would be works as YOU YOURSELF have to do Something to be Cleansed of Sin ---that is not Grace -------go figure --Salvation is a free gift we only have to Believe -----
To have to be Baptised in a pool is you doing a work for forgiveness of sins -------it is not Grace ------
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-1Peter-3-21.html
Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation
As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"
Those who believe that baptism is required for salvation are quick to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a “proof text,” because it states “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter really saying that the act of being baptized is what saves us? If he were, he would be contradicting many other passages of Scripture that clearly show people being saved (as evidenced by their receiving the Holy Spirit) prior to being baptized or without being baptized at all. A good example of someone who was saved before being baptized is Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. We know that they were saved before being baptized because they had received the Holy Spirit, which is the evidence of salvation (Romans 8:9; Ephesians 1:13; 1 John 3:24). The evidence of their salvation was the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized. Countless passages of Scripture clearly teach that salvation comes when one believes in the gospel, at which time he or she is sealed “in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).
Thankfully, though, we don’t have to guess at what Peter means in this verse because he clarifies that for us with the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.” While Peter is connecting baptism with salvation, it is not the act of being baptized that he is referring to (not the removal of dirt from the flesh). Being immersed in water does nothing but wash away dirt. What Peter is referring to is what baptism represents, which is what saves us (an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ). In other words, Peter is simply connecting baptism with belief. It is not the getting wet part that saves but the “appeal to God for a clean conscience” which is signified by baptism, that saves us. The appeal to God always comes first. First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.
An excellent explanation of this passage is given by Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament. “Water baptism is clearly in the apostle’s mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.'
"So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer’s inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, 'not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.' Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words 'the answer of a good conscience toward God," and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, 'by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,' in that the believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.”
Part of the confusion on this passage comes from the fact that in many ways the purpose of baptism as a public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and identification with Him has been replaced by “making a decision for Christ” or “praying a sinner’s prayer.” Baptism has been relegated to something that is done later. Yet to Peter or any of the first-century Christians, the idea that a person would confess Christ as his Savior and not be baptized as soon as possible would have been unheard of. Therefore, it is not surprising that Peter would see baptism as almost synonymous with salvation. Yet Peter makes it clear in this verse that it is not the ritual itself that saves, but the fact that we are united with Christ in His resurrection through faith, “the pledge of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).
Therefore, the baptism that Peter says saves us is the one that is preceded by faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that justifies the unrighteous sinner (Romans 3:25-26; 4:5). Baptism is the outward sign of what God has done “by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read all for yourselves
https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA79/is-baptism-necessary-for-salvation
Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?
No. Let's examine what the Scriptures teach on this issue:
First, it is quite clear from such passages as Acts 15 and Romans 4 that no external act is necessary for salvation. Salvation is by divine grace through faith alone (Romans 3:22, 24, 25, 26, 28, 30; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9, etc.).
Why do you have to talk to people like this?
What about your Bible? Does it not say to even love your enemies, let alone those who are supposed to be your Brother in Christ? How can you cram your ideas down our throats, yet refuse to exercise the Love of Christ that is SUPPOSED to be within you?
Why do you do this?
What about your Bible? Does it not say to even love your enemies, let alone those who are supposed to be your Brother in Christ? How can you cram your ideas down our throats, yet refuse to exercise the Love of Christ that is SUPPOSED to be within you?
Why do you do this?
I challenge you to provide me one Scripture that Jesus ever baptised anyone of His disciples in water and said this I command you to do ------go and preach on water Baptism -----as it is the way to Salvation --it will change your hearts and open your ears and your eyes to my word so you can be saved ------
John the Baptise said ------
John the Baptise said ------
The bible does not specifically state why Jesus did not perform water baptisms. However, KelbyofGod, brought up a very good point in a different thread. And that was it would have likely caused confusion. People may have concluded that receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost took place in water baptism. The two are separate and serve different purposes. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
Prior to Jesus' ascension He told the apostles to teach and baptize people. (Matt. 28:19) And told them to teach others by telling them to observe all that He commanded. (Matt. 28:20) And scripture makes if clear that only through obedience to Jesus commands can a person be saved. (Heb. 5:9)
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." Notice it does not say be baptized as a public display after you are saved.
Jesus also said, unless a man is born again he cannot SEE (comprehend) the kingdom. (John 3:3) Obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus remits sin and brings about the ability to SEE the kingdom. And furthermore, unless a man is born of water AND Spirit he cannot not ENTER into the kingdom. (John 3:5) After being indwelt with the Spirit one is lead into all truth. (John 16:13) The sequence in which these occur is not important. What is, is they are both necessary according to Jesus.
Are you serious John MacArthur? 1 Peter 3:21 isn't talking about water baptism?? What lengths people will go to keep their web of lies intact.
Peter's not saying baptism saves. Everyone know we're save by faith in Christ. Peter says exactly what baptism represents: An appeal to God for a good conscience. MacArthur, if you can't see something as elementary as this I'd say it's about time to hang it up.
Peter's not saying baptism saves. Everyone know we're save by faith in Christ. Peter says exactly what baptism represents: An appeal to God for a good conscience. MacArthur, if you can't see something as elementary as this I'd say it's about time to hang it up.
The word itself provides guidance in establishing what is true concerning topics such as how to administer water baptism. There will always be at least 2-3 scriptures that say the same thing. (Matt. 18:16 and 2 Cor. 13:1)
The apostles obeyed Jesus command in Matthew 28:19 by baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus. How do we know this? Because every water baptism was administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. No mention of the Father, or the Holy Ghost. Why? Because Jesus was the one who was crucified. The Apostle Paul made this point in 1 Cor. 1:13. Paul also expressed significance in how a person is baptized. He actually re-baptized people in water as recorded in Acts 19:1-6.
The apostles obeyed Jesus command in Matthew 28:19 by baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus. How do we know this? Because every water baptism was administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. No mention of the Father, or the Holy Ghost. Why? Because Jesus was the one who was crucified. The Apostle Paul made this point in 1 Cor. 1:13. Paul also expressed significance in how a person is baptized. He actually re-baptized people in water as recorded in Acts 19:1-6.
Dr David Jeremiah ---saying this about Baptism -----
DAVID JEREMIAH – IMPORTANT CHURCH CELEBRATIONS: BAPTISM
In the New Testament, baptism isn’t taken lightly. It provides an opportunity for Christians to testify to their faith before family, friends, and the world. It gives the church an opportunity to celebrate the news of sinners being saved.
Baptism is an outward expression of an inward faith.
DAVID JEREMIAH – IMPORTANT CHURCH CELEBRATIONS: BAPTISM
In the New Testament, baptism isn’t taken lightly. It provides an opportunity for Christians to testify to their faith before family, friends, and the world. It gives the church an opportunity to celebrate the news of sinners being saved.
Baptism is an outward expression of an inward faith.
-
1
-
1
- Show all