QUESTION - Where did he say that, David? Try writing like a brother and resist writing like a legal clerk.
Make your own case and stop telling others what case they have made unless they say it.
I see that you are easily encouraged and less easily corrected. You stand on a scale wherein all is weighted to favour your own teaching by which confidence you lay down the Word of God and stand back innocently anticipating that no matter how your precept in innocent asking is perceived - you will still weigh the scale in favour of your doctrine. Doctrine is worthless unless it is a matter of life.
I have been careful with my words to you and so you eventually show love for what I write - until I write what I can also see with my own eyes. Spare me your method. It is no more effectual on this man than coffee is a worthwhile drink to an Englishman.
Post #353
Okay, bare with me. Lets compare the 144,000 and the Great Multitude with the wise and foolish virgins in Matthew 25. There are two groups shown in Matthew chapter 25:1-13, similar to the two groups of Christians depicted in Revelation chapter 7.
There are some very familiar symbols in the Matthew description, which makes it easier to interpret who is being described and provide a good starting place to consider these two groups of Christians. First we have ten virgins with lamps in Matthew. The use of virgins as a symbol (2 Cor. 11:2) corresponds to those who’ve dedicated their life to Jesus the bridegroom (Revelation 19:7), and the number ten signifies that these virgins represent the sum total of all of the virgins. However, the virgins are divided into two groups – wise virgins and foolish virgins.
All the virgins have lamps representing the word of God (Psalm 119:105, 2 Peter 1:19) and all of them are awakened by the announcement of the bridegroom’s presence outside the door (cf. Revelation 3:20). However, the foolish virgins have brought insufficient oil with them for their lamps. The oil is the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 6:1-3, 2 Cor. 1:21-22) and evidently the foolish virgins lack the same spirit of commitment as the wise virgins.
Matthew places this parable in the same context with signs (Matthew chapter 24) and with other parables (Matthew chapter 25) of Christ’s return. That is the sense of this parable, also, for all of the virgins are waiting for the bridegroom to return.
The foolish virgins experience difficulties when the bridegroom arrives at the house at the stroke of midnight (cf. Song of Solomon 5:2-7). Their lamps are sputtering from a lack of oil, which suggests they are having difficulty understanding everything happening at the time. They go to get more oil in the marketplace (the parallel in Revelation seven would be the great multitude going out into the great tribulation). While they are gone the bridegroom takes the wise virgins to the wedding feast and the door is closed to the foolish virgins.
Note that throughout the parable they never cease to be virgins. They are genuinely loyal to Christ, but seem to lack the same degree or spirit (oil) of zeal and commitment that the wise virgins manifest, and they are shut out from going in to the wedding. So this parable suggests something different from the traditional view of the church… the understanding that all Christians are members of the bride of Christ. In the case of the parable of the wise and foolish virgins, there are two “classes” of Christians… and not all of them are part of the bride and the wedding.
So how do we account for these foolish virgins? Is the entire explanation for the existence of this group based solely on this parable? Consider some other examples from the scriptures –
• In Psalm 45 we have also a description of a wedding feast for the king’s daughter. In verse 14 we read “she will be led to the king in embroidered work; the virgins her companions who follow her shall be brought to you.” The Psalm is rich with metaphor, and if the bride is the wise virgins of the parable in Matthew, then who do the “virgins her companions who follow her” represent if not the foolish virgins?
• In 1 Corinthians 3:14 and 15 we have an example of two individuals that build on the foundation of Jesus Christ (verse 11). One of these individuals builds with quality materials and the other builds with inferior materials. The one who builds with quality materials receives a reward. The one who builds with inferior materials has their work destroyed, but they are still saved… although through the fire of trials (1 Peter 4:12).
These passages bear a striking similarity to the parable of the wise and foolish virgins in Matthew chapter 25 and the great multitude in Revelation chapter seven – in Psalm 45 we have the bride and then her virgin companions who are not the bride. In 1 Corinthians chapter 3 we have those who are rewarded as opposed to those who seem to be barely saved from destruction (1 Cor. 3:17).
Let’s compare what we’ve just considered with Revelation chapter seven and see if we can draw similar conclusions on this subject. In Revelation chapter 7, the 144,000 are described as selected from the twelve tribes of Israel. Throughout the book of Revelation, the Israel described within its pages does not seem to represent the literal nation of Israel, but rather spiritual Israel or the church (cf. Romans 2:28-29, 9:6-8, Galatians 6:16, Philippians 3:3, 135 Colossians 2:11, Revelation 2:9). As in other places throughout Revelation, it makes much more sense to interpret the tribes in chapter seven as spiritual Israel.
As in Matthew chapter 25, there are two groups of people described in the chapter. In Revelation chapter seven they are described as the 144,000 (7:1-8) and the great multitude (7:9-17), and these two groups are readily distinguished from each other. In one instance the group has a specific number (the 144,000), and this is contrasted with the great multitude that is a group “which no man could number.” The first group is sealed before the winds of trouble are loosed (verses 1-3) and the other group experiences “great tribulation” (verse 14).
In addition we have descriptions of the bride of Christ from elsewhere that differ significantly from the description of the great multitude in chapter seven. For example the bride of Christ is everywhere described as seated on thrones and reigning (Revelation 3:21, 20:4), while in this chapter the great multitude are described as ”before the throne” yet worshipping in God’s temple (verse 15). The bride of Christ is described as those “who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy” (Revelation 3:4). In contrast the great multitude is described as those whose robes were soiled and they “have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (verse 14).
The book of Revelation is not the only place where we have an example of those who need to have their robes washed. In the book of Jude we have a description of those who have not been completely faithful and who needed special repentance and cleansing. The book of Jude (verses 22-23) speaks of various examples of those who are straying in some way from the love of God (verse 21). It specifically makes mention of having mercy on those whose “garment [is] polluted [or “spotted”] by the flesh.”
This idea of cleansing from the actions of the flesh is elsewhere depicted in 1 Corinthians 5:5. Here we have the description of the unrepentant man whom the church had not confronted. Paul speaks of “the destruction of his flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” Paul is dealing with a specific individual rather than discussing a representative group in this instance, and he does not judge this man’s ultimate destiny. However, the verse does convey the idea of repentance and forgiveness and cleansing from the flesh as the outcome of suffering (tribulation).
Of course, our description of the great multitude could be criticized in our so[1]called enlightened age for not being properly egalitarian. Yet the scriptures do not shy away from the concept of reward (2 John 1:8) or even differing rewards. For an example, take some to read and ponder the parable of the pounds in Luke 19:11-27.
