Do SDA believe Michael is God?
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Isaiah 14
Easy-to-Read Version
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.
A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:
The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
12 You were like the morning star,
but you have fallen from the sky.
In the past, all the nations on earth bowed down before you,
but now you have been cut down.
13 You always told yourself,
“I will go to the skies above.
I will put my throne above God’s stars.
I will sit on Zaphon,[b] the holy mountain where the gods meet.
14 I will go up to the altar above the tops of the clouds.
I will be like God Most High.”
15 But that did not happen.
You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.
16 People will come to look at your dead body.
They will think about you and say,
“Is this the same man
who caused great fear in all the kingdoms on earth,
17 who destroyed cities
and turned the land into a desert,
who captured people in war
and would not let them go home?”
18 The kings of other nations lie buried with honor,
each king with his own grave.
19 But you were thrown out of your grave
like a branch cut from a tree and thrown away.
You are like a dead man who fell in battle,
trampled under the feet of other soldiers.
Now you look like any other dead man
wrapped in burial clothes.
20 Other kings have their own graves,
but you will not join them,
because you ruined your own country
and killed your own people.
So your wicked descendants will be stopped.
21 Prepare to kill his children,
because their father is guilty.
His children will never take control of the land.
They will never fill the world with their cities.
22 The Lord All-Powerful said, “I will stand and fight against those people. I will destroy the famous city, Babylon. I will destroy all the people there. I will destroy their children, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren.” The Lord himself said this.
23 “I will change Babylon. It will be a place for animals,[c] not people. It will be a swamp. I will use the ‘broom of destruction’ to sweep Babylon away.” The Lord All-Powerful said this.
God Will Also Punish Assyria
24 The Lord All-Powerful made this promise: “This will happen exactly as I meant for it to happen. It will happen just the way I planned. 25 I will destroy the king of Assyria in my country. I will walk on him on my mountains. He forced my people to be his slaves; he put a yoke on their necks. But that pole will be taken off Judah’s neck, and that burden will be removed. 26 This is what I plan to do for this land. I will use my power to punish all those nations.”
27 When the Lord All-Powerful makes a plan, no one can change it. When he raises his arm to punish, no one can stop him.
God’s Message to Philistia
28 This message[d] was given to me the year King Ahaz died[e]:
29 Country of Philistia, don’t be happy that the king who beat you is now dead. It is true that his rule has ended, but his son will come and rule. It will be like one snake giving birth to a more dangerous one. The new king will be like a quick and dangerous snake to you. 30 But even the poorest of my people will be able to eat safely. And their children will be able to lie down and feel safe. But I will make your family die from hunger, and your enemy will kill anyone who survives.
31 People near the city gates, cry!
People in the city, cry out!
Everyone in Philistia,
your courage will melt like hot wax.
Look to the north!
There is a cloud of dust.
An army is coming,
and everyone in that army is strong.[f]
32 But what will the messengers from that nation report about us?
They will say, “The Lord made Zion strong,
and his poor people went there for safety.”
Footnotes
Isaiah 13
Isaiah 15
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Easy-to-Read Version
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.
A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:
The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
12 You were like the morning star,
but you have fallen from the sky.
In the past, all the nations on earth bowed down before you,
but now you have been cut down.
13 You always told yourself,
“I will go to the skies above.
I will put my throne above God’s stars.
I will sit on Zaphon,[b] the holy mountain where the gods meet.
14 I will go up to the altar above the tops of the clouds.
I will be like God Most High.”
15 But that did not happen.
You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.
16 People will come to look at your dead body.
They will think about you and say,
“Is this the same man
who caused great fear in all the kingdoms on earth,
17 who destroyed cities
and turned the land into a desert,
who captured people in war
and would not let them go home?”
18 The kings of other nations lie buried with honor,
each king with his own grave.
19 But you were thrown out of your grave
like a branch cut from a tree and thrown away.
You are like a dead man who fell in battle,
trampled under the feet of other soldiers.
Now you look like any other dead man
wrapped in burial clothes.
20 Other kings have their own graves,
but you will not join them,
because you ruined your own country
and killed your own people.
So your wicked descendants will be stopped.
21 Prepare to kill his children,
because their father is guilty.
His children will never take control of the land.
They will never fill the world with their cities.
22 The Lord All-Powerful said, “I will stand and fight against those people. I will destroy the famous city, Babylon. I will destroy all the people there. I will destroy their children, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren.” The Lord himself said this.
23 “I will change Babylon. It will be a place for animals,[c] not people. It will be a swamp. I will use the ‘broom of destruction’ to sweep Babylon away.” The Lord All-Powerful said this.
God Will Also Punish Assyria
24 The Lord All-Powerful made this promise: “This will happen exactly as I meant for it to happen. It will happen just the way I planned. 25 I will destroy the king of Assyria in my country. I will walk on him on my mountains. He forced my people to be his slaves; he put a yoke on their necks. But that pole will be taken off Judah’s neck, and that burden will be removed. 26 This is what I plan to do for this land. I will use my power to punish all those nations.”
27 When the Lord All-Powerful makes a plan, no one can change it. When he raises his arm to punish, no one can stop him.
God’s Message to Philistia
28 This message[d] was given to me the year King Ahaz died[e]:
29 Country of Philistia, don’t be happy that the king who beat you is now dead. It is true that his rule has ended, but his son will come and rule. It will be like one snake giving birth to a more dangerous one. The new king will be like a quick and dangerous snake to you. 30 But even the poorest of my people will be able to eat safely. And their children will be able to lie down and feel safe. But I will make your family die from hunger, and your enemy will kill anyone who survives.
31 People near the city gates, cry!
People in the city, cry out!
Everyone in Philistia,
your courage will melt like hot wax.
Look to the north!
There is a cloud of dust.
An army is coming,
and everyone in that army is strong.[f]
32 But what will the messengers from that nation report about us?
They will say, “The Lord made Zion strong,
and his poor people went there for safety.”
Footnotes
- Isaiah 14:1 non-Israelites This usually means those who live in a country but are not yet citizens of that country. Here, it is the non-Israelites who decided to follow God.
- Isaiah 14:13 Zaphon This Hebrew word literally means “north” or “hidden.”
- Isaiah 14:23 animals Literally, “porcupines.”
- Isaiah 14:28 message Or “burden.” Also in 15:1.
- Isaiah 14:28 year King Ahaz died About 727 B.C.
- Isaiah 14:31 everyone … strong Or “there are no stragglers in that group.”
Isaiah 13
Isaiah 15
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for me Hebrews 1 completely closes this topic. not because of what TheLearner points out, altho that does as well, and Magenta makes an amazing point.
but the topic is closed IMO because of this:
"to which of the angels did He ever say . . . ?"
(Hebrews 1:5, 1:13)
speaking of Christ, the scripture with two witnesses absolutely in no uncertain terms differentiates Him from angels. (Hebrews 1:5, 1:13)
it is in fact a major premise of Hebrews 1 that Christ is not an angel; that Christ is equally God as the Father is God.
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Which does not offer evidence Jesus was ever an angel. HE as pre-incarnate Christ was above the angels, and was creator of angels. Post-incarnate Christ was lower than the angels due to the incarnation into human flesh. This was required for him to be able to the the Lamb of God to be slain on the cross for the sins of mankind.
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I was not trying to deny the divinity of Christ or anything like that 
Though I do wonder, agreeing in most part with what you have said here, if the pre-incarnate Christ ever appeared as an angel? Some say the angel of the Lord speaks as God, identifies Himself with God, and exercises the responsibilities of God; some who saw the angel of the Lord feared for their lives because they had “seen the Lord.”
Though I do wonder, agreeing in most part with what you have said here, if the pre-incarnate Christ ever appeared as an angel? Some say the angel of the Lord speaks as God, identifies Himself with God, and exercises the responsibilities of God; some who saw the angel of the Lord feared for their lives because they had “seen the Lord.”Maybe.
Angel has two meanings though. It can be a messenger, even some humans were called angels. The second is what we normally think of, a heavenly being who serves God and sometimes comes to the Earth like when angels came to Job to bring him out of Sodom.
Jesus was never number two's type of angel. Those angels are created beings and Christ is an uncreated God.
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He still is. He rules the forces of evil. This may help -
https://archive.org/details/michael-the-archangel-03-the-word-angel-as-defined-and-used
https://archive.org/details/michael-the-archangel-04-archangels-in-the-kjb-and-in-the-so-p-to-j
https://archive.org/details/michael-the-archangel-03-the-word-angel-as-defined-and-used
https://archive.org/details/michael-the-archangel-04-archangels-in-the-kjb-and-in-the-so-p-to-j
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I do know that JWs believe that Michael is Jesus but they don't believe that Jesus is God, only the Son of God; and I think mebbe satan's brother or something like that.
I'd have to catch up on these 9 pages to see exactly what SDA's do believe before I comment further however, but, if the thesis is Micheal is Jesus, and that can be proven with scripture, then it can then be proven that Michael is God.
I'd have to catch up on these 9 pages to see exactly what SDA's do believe before I comment further however, but, if the thesis is Micheal is Jesus, and that can be proven with scripture, then it can then be proven that Michael is God.
This (verse) is the most compelling evidence against Michael being Jesus and so not God, that is if the 'me' in this verse is Jesus. Backing up to verse 5, "I lifted up my eyes and behold there was a certain man dressed in linen...body was like beryl, face like the brilliance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches...voice like the sound of a multitude" whom Daniel saw, later in chapter 12, two others appear and one ask of him, "How long...?" which suggests that this "man" has exclusive insight the others do not. However, he does speak well in reference to Michael.
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Yes, but by leaving out vs 7 and it's "maketh" it alters the meaning of which "angels" are being spoken about, iow the created, not the uncreated angel of vs 2-3, the very "fellow" of the other lesser messengers. I continually have asked you questions, but your practice even until now is to not address them directly.
