What does John 3:16 mean?
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Well, some of those same people say death = life, and sleep = awake and aware,
then they turn around and accuse us of not accepting proper word meanings
We are told Jesus taught everything in parables, also, but somehow the teaching about death they take as a literal story and claim anyone who doesn't, does not believe what the Bible says. Then they make up some rule that is nowhere found in the Bible, hoping it bolsters their argument LOL. Some will even say they read everything as being literally true as written. Of course they are lying.
then they turn around and accuse us of not accepting proper word meanings
We are told Jesus taught everything in parables, also, but somehow the teaching about death they take as a literal story and claim anyone who doesn't, does not believe what the Bible says. Then they make up some rule that is nowhere found in the Bible, hoping it bolsters their argument LOL. Some will even say they read everything as being literally true as written. Of course they are lying.
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O
Yahweh sent His Son Yeshua to save me from the lethal effects of sin. He died a horrible death to save me, and He did this because He loves me! Hallelujah!
I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem. Nothing and nobody can stop me from getting there!
"38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.…" - Romans 8:37-39
I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem. Nothing and nobody can stop me from getting there!
"38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.…" - Romans 8:37-39
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Some will even say the soul of man is immortal even though that directly contradicts
what Scripture explicitly states. It is amazing how much error comes out of that one
doctrine that was concocted by the Roman Catholic Church. It is in truth a reiteration
of the lie at the heart of the fall of man and the corruption of all creation:
"You shall not surely die."
what Scripture explicitly states. It is amazing how much error comes out of that one
doctrine that was concocted by the Roman Catholic Church. It is in truth a reiteration
of the lie at the heart of the fall of man and the corruption of all creation:
"You shall not surely die."
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"but death isn't living eternally out of God's presence"
Why not? We already know that death is not the end of existence. Adam died the day that he ate the forbidden fruit. It was emphatic - "surely". And immediate - "the day". That was at the very least 6,000 years ago, depending on what timescale you accept.
Lord Jesus does not trace His ancestry to Adam, by the way. Lord Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, not by Joseph. So Lord Jesus bore the likeness of sinful flesh, but was not sinful by nature. Unlike mankind.
Why not? We already know that death is not the end of existence. Adam died the day that he ate the forbidden fruit. It was emphatic - "surely". And immediate - "the day". That was at the very least 6,000 years ago, depending on what timescale you accept.
Lord Jesus does not trace His ancestry to Adam, by the way. Lord Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, not by Joseph. So Lord Jesus bore the likeness of sinful flesh, but was not sinful by nature. Unlike mankind.
Are you sure about that? Though the genealogy in Luke does not Mention Mary by name, scholars maintain that this is the lineage of Mary, because it's different from the genealogy of Joseph mentioned in Matthew 1:1-16 and mentioning women in genealogies was not standard practice. It should go without saying that since Jesus was born of someone descended from Adam that He can trace His genetic lineage to Adam, as shown below.
Luke 3:23-38
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
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38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
This is the unavoidable truth. In order to achieve the effect you desire God would have needed to form Jesus from clay or materialize Him out of thin air.
Since Jesus is descended from Adam and was sinless, then children are sinless.
Luke 3:23-38
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
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38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
This is the unavoidable truth. In order to achieve the effect you desire God would have needed to form Jesus from clay or materialize Him out of thin air.
Since Jesus is descended from Adam and was sinless, then children are sinless.
You speak of one type of death as if it is the same as any other type of death. We already know they are not the same.
On that day, as you have said, emphatically, and immediately, Adam died. Spiritually. And then, what did God do? God took Adam and Eve from the garden specifically so they could not eat from the Tree of Life and live forever. Eventually they died, physically. Do you believe they will be resurrected at the end of this age? Now, we have access to eat from the Bread of Life, and attain to life ever after. For it is by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Christ that one puts on immortality. Period.
On that day, as you have said, emphatically, and immediately, Adam died. Spiritually. And then, what did God do? God took Adam and Eve from the garden specifically so they could not eat from the Tree of Life and live forever. Eventually they died, physically. Do you believe they will be resurrected at the end of this age? Now, we have access to eat from the Bread of Life, and attain to life ever after. For it is by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Christ that one puts on immortality. Period.
Also, if you want to say the second death is eternal separation from God, there is absolutely no reason not to take that to mean the person is eternally separated from God because they no longer exist. There is no reason to insist eternal separation from God means they are tortured and tormented in a state of consciousness forever after. All who reject Jesus' blood as an atonement for the their sin suffer the second death. What about those who are covered? We pass out of death into life. Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
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“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV
I think it comes down to how we hear the scripture we are aware of . One could read this that I quoted and say “ well
They are going to be tormented with the fire , and the smoke of thier torment in the fire will rise for ever and they will never have any rest”
And then someone could read other verses which seem to contradict these ones and come to a different conclusion. Sometimes there isn’t any instant common ground to be found no matter which scriptures we quote to each other because of what we’ve always believed beforehand
it’s never worth arguing either way we don’t want to miss out on what God has offered us in his presence
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV
I think it comes down to how we hear the scripture we are aware of . One could read this that I quoted and say “ well
They are going to be tormented with the fire , and the smoke of thier torment in the fire will rise for ever and they will never have any rest”
And then someone could read other verses which seem to contradict these ones and come to a different conclusion. Sometimes there isn’t any instant common ground to be found no matter which scriptures we quote to each other because of what we’ve always believed beforehand
it’s never worth arguing either way we don’t want to miss out on what God has offered us in his presence
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And the devil is a dragon and Satan is a serpent and Jesus is a Lamb and bowls will pour out all manner things and a prostitute drunk with the blood of the martyrs will ride some scarlet beast... really, using the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which is full of figurative apocalyptic language and heavy with symbolism, as the main thrust of the argument against conditional immortality makes little sense. We use figurative language everyday, but nobody takes it literally. This is not to say anything in Rev contradicts anything else in the Bible. But the message from start to finish in Scriptures is that the wicked will perish, and be no more. Life is found in Christ alone.
Proverbs 10:25
Proverbs 10:25
I again conclude, you do not know what you are talking about.
Perhaps I should make a panel with all the nonsense people say in defense of their pet false doctrine.
Included will be: People affirming that destroying the wicked to the point where they exist no more as per the
truth of Scripture is falsely interpreted to mean universalism: they will live forever after. So says Peldom10.
Makes no sense but it is typical.
Perhaps I should make a panel with all the nonsense people say in defense of their pet false doctrine.
Included will be: People affirming that destroying the wicked to the point where they exist no more as per the
truth of Scripture is falsely interpreted to mean universalism: they will live forever after. So says Peldom10.
Makes no sense but it is typical.
Well in that case I can back that verse up with Revelation 20: 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Or Matthew 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Another one in Matthew 25: 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
One must put all the verses and scriptures together and you can see what being said. For man to burn forever like the angels, there must be a change in the body, because we know flesh burns. This happen at the second resurrection, except for the beast and the false prophet. They become the first to burn.
Do you know the difference between soul and spirit? Do you know how people are conceived? Lord Jesus had brothers. They were were conceived by Joseph's sperm. Lord Jesus was not. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Physically, He had a human body that needed to eat, drink, could bleed and even be killed. His nature was God, not man. Lord Jesus had life in himself. No one else could claim that, including Adam. The life that Jesus has is the uncreated life of God.
Adam was called the son of God because he was directly formed by God and not descended from any other being. Sorry about that, evolutionists. Adam was not sinful, but neither was he righteous. He had natural life, not spiritual life. God gave Adam the opportunity to receive spiritual life, but of course he chose to rebel instead.
There are three words in Greek that English translates "life". They are "bio", "Pseuche" and "Zoe". Pseuche refers to the realm of the soul, where we derive our word psychology. Bio refers to the physical. Zoe refers to spiritual life, the uncreated life that is God Himself. Lord Jesus came that we might have "zoe" life. He said, "He who seeks to save his pseuche will lose it". What we gain when we lose the soul-life is God's eternal life instead.
There is much more to say about this subject. However, this is probably not the best platform.
Adam was called the son of God because he was directly formed by God and not descended from any other being. Sorry about that, evolutionists. Adam was not sinful, but neither was he righteous. He had natural life, not spiritual life. God gave Adam the opportunity to receive spiritual life, but of course he chose to rebel instead.
There are three words in Greek that English translates "life". They are "bio", "Pseuche" and "Zoe". Pseuche refers to the realm of the soul, where we derive our word psychology. Bio refers to the physical. Zoe refers to spiritual life, the uncreated life that is God Himself. Lord Jesus came that we might have "zoe" life. He said, "He who seeks to save his pseuche will lose it". What we gain when we lose the soul-life is God's eternal life instead.
There is much more to say about this subject. However, this is probably not the best platform.
Mostly I agree with you. However, the reason why God barred them from the tree of life is so that they could die physically. Imagine a world where no one could die. On the other hand, I'd rather not. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus makes it clear that there is existence after death.
The Bible states that all will be raised from the dead to face judgement. I'm sure you know Rev 20:13.
The Bible states that all will be raised from the dead to face judgement. I'm sure you know Rev 20:13.
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yes and those who don’t believe that (?which I myself do believe that the second death is an eternal state of torment )
but those who don’t agree will have several scriptures that support thier thinking also that’s all I was saying they also will put verses together to make thier point just as you did there I only say this because this subject has come up before and I quoted all those same verses plus more that support them and thre response was others quoted thier scriotires that seem to support total destruction
I’ve even went through ot prophecy quotes that support eternal torment and suffering for the wicked but it seems that others are convicted of a different view me they also have scripture that supports that view
it’s one of those constant conflict argument and scripture wars subject no one ever moves on and honestly we should not want to either die forever or be tormented forever
we should instead look to the truth of the gospel and escape the second death either way we should look to the life and light and let God convince us of the things we don’t yet grasp
but those who don’t agree will have several scriptures that support thier thinking also that’s all I was saying they also will put verses together to make thier point just as you did there I only say this because this subject has come up before and I quoted all those same verses plus more that support them and thre response was others quoted thier scriotires that seem to support total destruction
I’ve even went through ot prophecy quotes that support eternal torment and suffering for the wicked but it seems that others are convicted of a different view me they also have scripture that supports that view
it’s one of those constant conflict argument and scripture wars subject no one ever moves on and honestly we should not want to either die forever or be tormented forever
we should instead look to the truth of the gospel and escape the second death either way we should look to the life and light and let God convince us of the things we don’t yet grasp
The text specifically states that God put them out of the garden and barred them from the Tree of Life so they could not eat from it and live forever. There is nothing to suggest they would not die if they never ate from that Tree. In fact, Scripture again specifically states that God alone is immortal. They were made from the natural, which comes first, before the Spiritual birth, which is in Christ alone, through Whom life ever after attained. Nobody that I know of here has denied existence after death. The contention is something else altogether!