The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Obviously you don't read my posts, or read them carefully.
i've already addressed that silly question.
I SAID that everything Jesus said should be taken at face value. Which shows that your question is nutty.
As hard as you may try to put words in my mouth, you won't succeed.
The "end of time" is just before God replaces the current heaven and earth with the "new heaven and earth", Rev 21:1. Because then, there will be no more time. Scholars call it the eternal state.
There is NO resurrection at that time. We know the resurrection of the saved will occur "when He comes" per 1 Cor 15:23, and Rev 20:5, where the resurrection of trib martyrs is called the FIRST resurrection, which leads to the second resurrection, which will occur 1,000 years later (Rev 20:11-15).
The "last day" of natural life (what all humans have been experiencing since Adam) will end when Jesus comes at the Second Advent and gives glorified bodies to all believers. This will result in the Millennial Reign as a supernatural time, since believers will reign with Christ over the earth of mortal unbelievers.
The resurrection of all unbelievers will be after the Millennium, for the purpose of being called to attend the GWT, where they will be standing.
Do you know WHY the LoF is also called the "second death"?
Obviously you don't read my posts, or read them carefully.
i've already addressed that silly question.
I SAID that everything Jesus said should be taken at face value. Which shows that your question is nutty.
As hard as you may try to put words in my mouth, you won't succeed.
The "end of time" is just before God replaces the current heaven and earth with the "new heaven and earth", Rev 21:1. Because then, there will be no more time. Scholars call it the eternal state.
There is NO resurrection at that time. We know the resurrection of the saved will occur "when He comes" per 1 Cor 15:23, and Rev 20:5, where the resurrection of trib martyrs is called the FIRST resurrection, which leads to the second resurrection, which will occur 1,000 years later (Rev 20:11-15).
The "last day" of natural life (what all humans have been experiencing since Adam) will end when Jesus comes at the Second Advent and gives glorified bodies to all believers. This will result in the Millennial Reign as a supernatural time, since believers will reign with Christ over the earth of mortal unbelievers.
The resurrection of all unbelievers will be after the Millennium, for the purpose of being called to attend the GWT, where they will be standing.
Do you know WHY the LoF is also called the "second death"?
Now go against the bible:
Here they are, in heaven
"...WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH, STANDING BEFORE THE THRONE"
Change it for your erroneous doctrine
Revelation 14
King James Version
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Change it.
Here they are, in heaven
"...WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH, STANDING BEFORE THE THRONE"
Change it for your erroneous doctrine
Revelation 14
King James Version
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Change it.
That would be quite dumb, stupid, in fact.
Every believer who physically dies is "redeemed from the earth and will stand before the throne". Why would you think otherwise?
You are big on words, but very small on evidence to back up your empty boasts.
No need to change anything, except your mind.
I've told you before, Rev 14 isn't chronological. It's a future vision of John. He got a lot of visions.
So, now it's your turn to prove that ch 14 IS chronological in Rev.
Every believer who physically dies is "redeemed from the earth and will stand before the throne". Why would you think otherwise?
You are big on words, but very small on evidence to back up your empty boasts.
No need to change anything, except your mind.
I've told you before, Rev 14 isn't chronological. It's a future vision of John. He got a lot of visions.
So, now it's your turn to prove that ch 14 IS chronological in Rev.
TDW continued: Then, following "our Rapture," many people will be coming to faith in Christ [in fact, "our Rapture" will be a major impetus that helps Israel (many of them) come to faith in their Messiah (Jesus Christ)--and it is these "believing remnant of Israel" who will be the ones DOING the "INVITING" (of the "guests [plural]" [aka the Gentiles]) TO "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" aka the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 (Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and its parallel]: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]") 
] But... and here's the key... these are never called "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" nor does "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" pertain TO THEM (though they will indeed come to faith in Christ);
] But... and here's the key... these are never called "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" nor does "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" pertain TO THEM (though they will indeed come to faith in Christ);
As I've answered you before:
in the text which states, "and THEY KNEW NOT until the flood came and TOOK THEM all away,"
the "THEY / THEM" refers to the LOST / UNSAVED who are the only ones who "KNEW NOT UNTIL"
Noah and crew certainly DID "KNOW" ahead... Noah "prepared the ark" for YEARS prior... was "a preacher of righteousness" (who was the INSTRUMENT that Jesus, by means of the Spirit, went and "preached to the spirits of those [now] in prison," who in the days of Noah disobeyed / disregarded the word of God VIA NOAH--the POINT of Jesus' comparison with those in the future specific time-period, in His Olivet Discourse), thus they "perished in the flood" (and who are the "THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL" ones)... but Noah was told even more specifically the closer they got to the approaching "flood judgment" to board the ark, "for in YET SEVEN DAYS...," so they boarded the ark because they WERE INFORMED and believed and did what he was told... Noah and crew were NOT the ones about whom was said, "and THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL" (thus also are not the ones about whom that sentence finishes with: "and TOOK THEM ALL AWAY"... that is, IN JUDGMENT... they "perished in the flood");
This is Jesus speaking of what will occur at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (Rev19 / Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:[9,]12-13, etc... and the passage from which the disciples BASED the question of Him in Matthew 24:3, that is: Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 re: "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]" when the ANGELS will "REAP")... NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot, which Jesus is NOWHERE covering the Subject of, in His Olivet Discourse;
In the case of the FUTURE, to which Jesus is comparing this / these... it will be the "ANGELS / REAPERS" who will be told to "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (so the "TOOK them all away" unto JUDGMENT certainly "fits" the scene of His Second Coming to the earth--I've already gone over the definition of that word, SHOWING that it can be used in both to positive and to negative ends, depending on WHO is DOING the "TOOK / TAKING" and to what PURPOSE)
You seem to be forgetting my posts about what Paul wrote, addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (US):
"...THAT whether we may WATCH *OR* whether we may SLEEP [SAME TWO Greek words used a few verses earlier in verse 6--SAME CONTEXT and MEANING i.e. does NOT mean "sleep in death"], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" - 1Th5:10 [see also v.6]
That's who the text itself states was (and thus, will be concerning those in the "future" at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19 [NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot]).
At the time of Jesus' Second Coming TO THE EARTH (Rev19), the "still-living SAINTS" (and YES there WILL BE those; per Dan12:12 and about 8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this SAME issue!) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children (the only ones who will have that capacity--as will their children, grandchildren born in the MK age); Scripture shows repeatedly that NO "UNSAVED / UNBELIEVERs" [still-living] persons will ENTER the MK age (tho certainly those later BORN to them aren't "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS"), ONLY the ones "BELIEVING" will be permitted to ENTER the MK age... and they (as "saints" / "the righteous" / "believing" persons) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (just as in Noah's day: COMPARE Dan2:35c with Gen9:1 and those with these passages such as Matt24 and Lk17... and where in Lk17's "and DESTROYED them ALL" is NOT what takes place at the time of "our Rapture" for those UNSAVED persons "left behind"--No. Many of them will be coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... when they are IN the Trib yrs).
Again, your "Partial Rapture Theory" is incorrect, and is rooted in a mis-application of a number of passages which aren't covering the Subject of "our Rapture" (at the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had NOT YET spoken to them about that Subject, but ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHY Millennial Kingdom age, and the specific, LIMITED time-period that will precede and LEAD UP TO that point / His "RETURN" to the earth (compare Matt24:42-51 with its parallel Luke 12:36-37,38,39,40,42-44,45-48, where that text states, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the MEAL [G347; used also in Matt8:11 and its parallel, speaking of the EARTHLY MK age / "BLESSED"]);
Your CONFLATING this issue MARS the picture (regarding what actually takes place at the time of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]").
Certainly you do not believe that, at the time of the FLOOD judgment, when "8 souls were saved," that this was a "50 / 50" occurrence, so that (according to the math) it was equally "8 souls who perished in the flood,"... do you?? I find that notion to be rather implausible.
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LOL This is why you need to establish why the audience of John 6 should NOT take Jesus' words at face value. None of your citations will exist for decades. It is a common cultic practice to use terms that have been re-defined. You should stop doing so. Along with citing Scripture that didnt exist at the time, its very weak . Jesus' words are true and were true at the time. You are not free to add resurrections or time to Scripture, adding to Scripture is a crime.
The passage has been posted many times , it meets every criteria to be literally understood. However , since Free has proven incapable perhaps you can explain why the original audience should NOT take Jesus at His word. Jesus repeatedly defines who He is talking about .There is something so cute about folks who pretend to be literalist and fail so badly at the first test.
3Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Well how could anyone miss the obvious. Jesus really meant 1,007 years before the last day, He had His fingers crossed do its OK.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Well how could anyone miss the obvious. Jesus really meant 1,007 years before the last day, He had His fingers crossed do its OK.
^ Jesus WAS talking about what would happen (at the time-frame MARTHA was speaking of: "IN the LAST DAY")... SAME as Dan12:13; Job19:25-27; ... when they will be "resurrected ['to STAND AGAIN,' that is, ON THE EARTH]"... But Paul was given to disclose "Behold, I SHEW *you* A MYSTERY" (which was not exactly what ALL OT saints already WELL-KNEW, such as Martha and Daniel and Job--who were NOT promised "RAPTURE / SNATCH / CAUGHT UP [IN THE AIR]" or anything related to that... which occurs [just] *before* the LAST DAY, that is, in the "6th Day" [like when God "brought her [the woman (singular)] unto the man" in Gen2:22 ])
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The devil and futurists hate it when you quote Jesus , thats why its so much fun!
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; (Stop add 1,000 years here )and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; (Stop add 1,000 years here )and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
"[IN] the LAST DAY" does not refer to "in the last 24-hr day"
"The Last Day" IS the Millennium (the 7th and LAST)
"... the same shall judge him IN THE LAST DAY" (not being merely "a singular 24-hr day," for example)
[for the readers: see Hosea 5:14-6:3's "after TWO DAYS" and "IN the THIRD DAY" from the perspective of His ascension time-frame (in 32ad), and concerning "Israel" and "Israel's FUTURE," per CONTEXT]
"The Last Day" IS the Millennium (the 7th and LAST)
"... the same shall judge him IN THE LAST DAY" (not being merely "a singular 24-hr day," for example)
[for the readers: see Hosea 5:14-6:3's "after TWO DAYS" and "IN the THIRD DAY" from the perspective of His ascension time-frame (in 32ad), and concerning "Israel" and "Israel's FUTURE," per CONTEXT]
"[IN] the LAST DAY" does not refer to "in the last 24-hr day"
"The Last Day" IS the Millennium (the 7th and LAST)
"... the same shall judge him IN THE LAST DAY" (not being merely "a singular 24-hr day," for example)
[for the readers: see Hosea 5:14-6:3's "after TWO DAYS" and "IN the THIRD DAY" from the perspective of His ascension time-frame (in 32ad), and concerning "Israel" and "Israel's FUTURE," per CONTEXT]
"The Last Day" IS the Millennium (the 7th and LAST)
"... the same shall judge him IN THE LAST DAY" (not being merely "a singular 24-hr day," for example)
[for the readers: see Hosea 5:14-6:3's "after TWO DAYS" and "IN the THIRD DAY" from the perspective of His ascension time-frame (in 32ad), and concerning "Israel" and "Israel's FUTURE," per CONTEXT]
So the Millennium is really 365,000 years. LOL
Actually, at the Second Advent, or "when He comes" per 1 Cor 15:23, ALL believers, or "those who belong to Him" per 1 Cor 15:23 will get their glorified bodies. And this is the single resurrection that the Bible says will occur for the saved.
And what happens after Jesus Christ comes back to earth? The Millennial kingdom. Since ALL believers will have already been resurrected/given glorified bodies, Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Doesn't sound like ruling over believers, does it.
Of course not. Since all believers will no longer have their sinful nature, they won't need to be ruled. Instead, the faithful ones will "reign with Christ", per 2 Tim 2:12 and Rom 8:17b.
So then, just who will Jesus be ruling over with that big rod of iron? The survivors of the Trib. According to the math of how many are killed during the Trib, there will be approx 50% left; in today's numbers, that's about 3.5 billion people.
And since the Millennial reign ends with the battle of Gog and Magog, again, doesn't sound like Jesus is ruling over believers. Why would believers rebel against their King?
So, we know that "when He comes", and glorifies all believers with new bodies, only unbelievers will be left. And keep in mind there won't be another resurrection for saved people. ALL of them will be resurrected "when He comes".
So there won't be any more people coming to faith.
Read Matt 5 to learn WHY there will be so much resentment at the end of the Millennium and that ruling with a rod of iron.
That explains why there will be a battle. And they ALL will be killed by fire. Only to be raised to mortal life AGAIN to face the GWT.
And what happens after Jesus Christ comes back to earth? The Millennial kingdom. Since ALL believers will have already been resurrected/given glorified bodies, Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Doesn't sound like ruling over believers, does it.
Of course not. Since all believers will no longer have their sinful nature, they won't need to be ruled. Instead, the faithful ones will "reign with Christ", per 2 Tim 2:12 and Rom 8:17b.
So then, just who will Jesus be ruling over with that big rod of iron? The survivors of the Trib. According to the math of how many are killed during the Trib, there will be approx 50% left; in today's numbers, that's about 3.5 billion people.
And since the Millennial reign ends with the battle of Gog and Magog, again, doesn't sound like Jesus is ruling over believers. Why would believers rebel against their King?
So, we know that "when He comes", and glorifies all believers with new bodies, only unbelievers will be left. And keep in mind there won't be another resurrection for saved people. ALL of them will be resurrected "when He comes".
So there won't be any more people coming to faith.
Read Matt 5 to learn WHY there will be so much resentment at the end of the Millennium and that ruling with a rod of iron.
That explains why there will be a battle. And they ALL will be killed by fire. Only to be raised to mortal life AGAIN to face the GWT.
I asked:
"Do you know WHY the LoF is also called the "second death"?"
OK, so you don't know trhe answer, since you didn't answer.
What is your problem? I've dones so several times already. Are you having difficulty concentrating?
I have repeatedly SAID that everyone should take Jesus' words at face value.
I think you should stop embarrassing yourself by this really childish question, since it has been answered.
Why do you believe that the Bible will not exist forever? What's wrong with you?
Now what are you trying to say? If you can't show me the "terms" I've used that have been "re-defined", you are just blowing smoke.
You should stop making all these empty charges.
What in the world are you now talking about? I'm discussing END TIMES, whether you are conscious of that or not. And the whole counsel of God WAS completed by 95 AD. So your comment shows extreme ignorance.
So you seem to be saying that what I cite from Scripture is "very weak". Why do you have such a low opinion of Scripture?
Of course they are.
It seems you have completely gone off the cliff now. Can you show me where I have tried to "add resurrections"?
Or "time"?
How come you don't know why the LoF is also called the "second death"?
"Do you know WHY the LoF is also called the "second death"?"
OK, so you don't know trhe answer, since you didn't answer.
What is your problem? I've dones so several times already. Are you having difficulty concentrating?
I have repeatedly SAID that everyone should take Jesus' words at face value.
I think you should stop embarrassing yourself by this really childish question, since it has been answered.
Why do you believe that the Bible will not exist forever? What's wrong with you?
Now what are you trying to say? If you can't show me the "terms" I've used that have been "re-defined", you are just blowing smoke.
You should stop making all these empty charges.
What in the world are you now talking about? I'm discussing END TIMES, whether you are conscious of that or not. And the whole counsel of God WAS completed by 95 AD. So your comment shows extreme ignorance.
So you seem to be saying that what I cite from Scripture is "very weak". Why do you have such a low opinion of Scripture?
Of course they are.
It seems you have completely gone off the cliff now. Can you show me where I have tried to "add resurrections"?
Or "time"?
How come you don't know why the LoF is also called the "second death"?
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