Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
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Why is ok for you to derail the thread?
2 Samuel 12:13-25
Easy-to-Read Version
13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
Nathan said to David, “The Lord will forgive you, even for this sin. You will not die. 14 But you did things that made the Lord’s enemies lose their respect for him, so your new baby son will die.”
David and Bathsheba’s Baby Dies
15 Then Nathan went home. And the Lord caused the baby boy who was born to David and Uriah’s wife to become very sick. 16 David prayed to God for the baby. David refused to eat or drink. He went into his house and stayed there and lay on the ground all night.
17 The leaders of David’s family came and tried to pull David up from the ground, but he refused to get up. He refused to eat with these leaders. 18 On the seventh day the baby died. David’s servants were afraid to tell him that the baby was dead. They said, “Look, we tried to talk to David while the baby was alive, but he refused to listen to us. If we tell David that the baby is dead, he might do something bad to himself.”
19 David saw his servants whispering and understood that the baby was dead. So David asked his servants, “Is the baby dead?”
The servants answered, “Yes, he is dead.”
20 Then David got up from the floor. He washed himself. He changed his clothes and got dressed. Then he went into the Lord’s house to worship. After that he went home and asked for something to eat. His servants gave him some food, and he ate.
21 David’s servants asked him, “Why are you doing this? When the baby was alive, you cried and refused to eat. But when the baby died you got up and ate food.”
22 David said, “While the baby was still living, I cried and refused to eat because I thought, ‘Who knows? Maybe the Lord will feel sorry for me and let the baby live.’ 23 But now the baby is dead, so why should I refuse to eat? Can I bring the baby back to life? No. Some day I will go to him, but he cannot come back to me.”
Solomon Is Born
24 Then David comforted Bathsheba his wife. He slept with her and had sexual relations with her. Bathsheba became pregnant again and had another son. David named the boy Solomon. The Lord loved Solomon 25 and sent word for Nathan the prophet to give Solomon the name Jedidiah.[a] So Nathan did this for the Lord.
2 Samuel 12:13-25
Easy-to-Read Version
13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
Nathan said to David, “The Lord will forgive you, even for this sin. You will not die. 14 But you did things that made the Lord’s enemies lose their respect for him, so your new baby son will die.”
David and Bathsheba’s Baby Dies
15 Then Nathan went home. And the Lord caused the baby boy who was born to David and Uriah’s wife to become very sick. 16 David prayed to God for the baby. David refused to eat or drink. He went into his house and stayed there and lay on the ground all night.
17 The leaders of David’s family came and tried to pull David up from the ground, but he refused to get up. He refused to eat with these leaders. 18 On the seventh day the baby died. David’s servants were afraid to tell him that the baby was dead. They said, “Look, we tried to talk to David while the baby was alive, but he refused to listen to us. If we tell David that the baby is dead, he might do something bad to himself.”
19 David saw his servants whispering and understood that the baby was dead. So David asked his servants, “Is the baby dead?”
The servants answered, “Yes, he is dead.”
20 Then David got up from the floor. He washed himself. He changed his clothes and got dressed. Then he went into the Lord’s house to worship. After that he went home and asked for something to eat. His servants gave him some food, and he ate.
21 David’s servants asked him, “Why are you doing this? When the baby was alive, you cried and refused to eat. But when the baby died you got up and ate food.”
22 David said, “While the baby was still living, I cried and refused to eat because I thought, ‘Who knows? Maybe the Lord will feel sorry for me and let the baby live.’ 23 But now the baby is dead, so why should I refuse to eat? Can I bring the baby back to life? No. Some day I will go to him, but he cannot come back to me.”
Solomon Is Born
24 Then David comforted Bathsheba his wife. He slept with her and had sexual relations with her. Bathsheba became pregnant again and had another son. David named the boy Solomon. The Lord loved Solomon 25 and sent word for Nathan the prophet to give Solomon the name Jedidiah.[a] So Nathan did this for the Lord.
Peter (along with the other 120 or so) at Pentecost (10 days after Jesus ascended from Olivet), under full influence and inspiration of the Holy Ghost, having come straight down from heaven, said:
Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
Acts 2:34: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,"
Paul, later likewise said:
Acts 13:36: "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:"
Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
Acts 2:34: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,"
Paul, later likewise said:
Acts 13:36: "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:"
agape is simply the noun form of the verb agapao.
scripture universally equivocates the noun & the verb.
God commands us to love ((agapao)) and the epistles teach us about having love ((agape)) because He loved us ((agapao)) in the very same breath they remind us to love ((agapao)) one another.
they say love ((agape)) is the fulfillment of the law; whoever loves ((agapao)) has fulfilled the law, and the entire basis of the law is the command to love ((agapao)).
agape & agapao are universally equivalent in scripture, tho men may direct their love towards disparate things: the world, or to God.
scripture universally equivocates the noun & the verb.
God commands us to love ((agapao)) and the epistles teach us about having love ((agape)) because He loved us ((agapao)) in the very same breath they remind us to love ((agapao)) one another.
they say love ((agape)) is the fulfillment of the law; whoever loves ((agapao)) has fulfilled the law, and the entire basis of the law is the command to love ((agapao)).
agape & agapao are universally equivalent in scripture, tho men may direct their love towards disparate things: the world, or to God.
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The weakness of your Bible interpretation regarding the definition of death is:
1. The Bible doesn’t seem to clearly use your definition of death anywhere.
2. You’re using a figurative or non-literal hermeneutic to interpret death where it isn’t clear that a non-literal definition is superior to the plain text of the scripture. I.e., God says the soul that sins will die, you’re saying the soul that sins lives forever. (Genesis 2:17, Ezekiel 18:20, etc)
3. You seem you apply subjective criteria to define death as not literally death, but do not use the same standard regarding other topics. I.e., death isn’t death, but eternal life is eternal life, forgiveness is forgiveness, sin is sin, etc.
4. Eternal conscious torment isn’t clearly stated anywhere in scripture.
All of that being said, you seem to be preaching a very common, yet false, doctrine that is running rampant through the Catholic and Protestant church.
1. The Bible doesn’t seem to clearly use your definition of death anywhere.
2. You’re using a figurative or non-literal hermeneutic to interpret death where it isn’t clear that a non-literal definition is superior to the plain text of the scripture. I.e., God says the soul that sins will die, you’re saying the soul that sins lives forever. (Genesis 2:17, Ezekiel 18:20, etc)
3. You seem you apply subjective criteria to define death as not literally death, but do not use the same standard regarding other topics. I.e., death isn’t death, but eternal life is eternal life, forgiveness is forgiveness, sin is sin, etc.
4. Eternal conscious torment isn’t clearly stated anywhere in scripture.
All of that being said, you seem to be preaching a very common, yet false, doctrine that is running rampant through the Catholic and Protestant church.
Look, if "agapeo" was derived from "agape", I would accept you claim that the wicked can partake of agape, because "apapeo" would incorporate the profound love of "agape", it being a derivative.
THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.
"AGAPE" is derived from "AGAPEO" and takes on its OWN meaning - an immensely higher meaning - which the Greeks assigned as the highest form of love possible - which love can only be ascribed to God, and is why no one agrees with you that the wicked partake of this love. Bro, do you understand? No one agrees with you, nor does the Bible: you can't find a single verse where "agape" and "the wicked" are connected.
You have only this frayed thread of false equivalency in order that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV can escape being identified for who they are: SAINTS who will go to hell for allowing their "agape" to grow cold and dead, while "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13 KJV).
THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.
"AGAPE" is derived from "AGAPEO" and takes on its OWN meaning - an immensely higher meaning - which the Greeks assigned as the highest form of love possible - which love can only be ascribed to God, and is why no one agrees with you that the wicked partake of this love. Bro, do you understand? No one agrees with you, nor does the Bible: you can't find a single verse where "agape" and "the wicked" are connected.
You have only this frayed thread of false equivalency in order that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV can escape being identified for who they are: SAINTS who will go to hell for allowing their "agape" to grow cold and dead, while "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13 KJV).
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Do you not understand that Isaiah says we must compare "line upon line" and "precept upon precept"? Any clue what that means?
IF BOTH JOB AND SOLOMON says dead folks return not to the land of the living, that should be enough.
BUT, A WITCH OF ALL PEOPLE supposedly called up "Samuel" - do the devil's servants have power of prophets?
THAT WAS NOT SAMUEL, but a demon, which is why God told us not to have anything to do with spiritualism.
IF BOTH JOB AND SOLOMON says dead folks return not to the land of the living, that should be enough.
BUT, A WITCH OF ALL PEOPLE supposedly called up "Samuel" - do the devil's servants have power of prophets?
THAT WAS NOT SAMUEL, but a demon, which is why God told us not to have anything to do with spiritualism.
Not according to the plain reading of inspired scripture. These are God‘s words not man. Whenever the Bible goes against your narrative, leave the Bible alone and change your narrative. Another example would be how you manipulate the thief on the cross passage.
God used this witch to bring up Samuel to warn Saul. God can do that you know.
Was dead Lazarus ”returned back to the land of the living”? Have there been others that were resurrected? Of course…but this as not Samuel I body form, but his soul that was asleep in Abraham’s bosom.
God used this witch to bring up Samuel to warn Saul. God can do that you know.
Was dead Lazarus ”returned back to the land of the living”? Have there been others that were resurrected? Of course…but this as not Samuel I body form, but his soul that was asleep in Abraham’s bosom.
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Did Peter, James, and John see Moses? Didn’t Moses die? How many more examples do you need?
There are statements in the Bible that are general in nature, not fixed. It is appointed unto man once to die…have men died twice? Will there be those who are alive and remain when the Lord returns? Exceptions only prove the rule.
There are statements in the Bible that are general in nature, not fixed. It is appointed unto man once to die…have men died twice? Will there be those who are alive and remain when the Lord returns? Exceptions only prove the rule.
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