The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Hitch]

I'm sorry but we are the once and future Israel? In other words has the church replaced Israel?

Paul said that believers are:
“The children of God” (Rom. 8:16).
“The household of God” (Eph. 2:19).
“The children of Abraham” (Gal. 3:7).
“Abraham’s seed” (Gal. 3:29).
“The children of promise” (Rom. 9:8; Gal. 4:28)
. “A people of his own” (Ti. 2:14 — RSV).
“The elect of God” (Col. 3:12)
. “Heirs of God” (Rom. 8:17).
“Heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 3:29).
“The temple of God” (1 Cor. 3:16).
“The circumcision” (Phil. 3:3).
“The Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16).

Peter said that believers are: “A chosen generation” (1 Pet. 2:9)
. “A royal priesthood” (1 Pet. 2:9)
. “An holy nation” (1 Pet. 2:9).
“A peculiar people” (1 Pet. 2:9).

James said that believers are: “Heirs of the kingdom” (Jas. 2:5)

. John said that believers are: “The sons of God” (Jn. 1:12)
. “Kings and priests unto God” (Rev. 1:6)
“The new Jerusalem” (Rev. 3:12).
“The holy city” (Rev. 21:2).

The letter to the Hebrews said that believers are:
“The people of God” (Heb. 4:9)
. “Mount Zion” (Heb. 12:22).
“The city of the living God” (Heb. 12:22).
“The heavenly Jerusalem” (Heb. 12:22).

 

[cv5]

One can't "put a dent" in what doesn't exist, buddy. Everyone knows that.

Now, if you actually DID have a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, you'd have something.

Ignore Revelation 1:6 and Revelation 5:9 all day long buddy. No skin off my nose. Ignoring proof texts is your speciality. Back to iggy for you. And enjoy your Tribulation.

 

[Hitch]

John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Here, "all" does mean "everyone".

However, not everyone responds to the drawing. By dying for the sins of the whole world, Jesus has drawn everyone. It was the greatest expression of love in the universe. All that's left is the response. Not everyone responds to acts of love.

4 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Hitch]

Ignore Revelation 1:6 and Revelation 5:9 all day long buddy. No skin off my nose. Ignoring proof texts is your speciality. Back to iggy for you. And enjoy your Tribulation.

And when making things up fails there are always silly emotional outbursts.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Nothing supports pre-trib rapture better than made up gaps in prophecy, when reality bites just pretend.

Yeah, I debunked it in my thread. All 70 weeks were already fulfilled by Jesus.

Confusion is /always/ confusing and& might as well type it (ON a KEYboard)<------- out in a confusing (way]-- to double down [TWO 2x}} on confusion (see post 191[!]...

Even if that definition is true, this letter was still addressing to the church of Thessalonica, not anybody else, not any rebels or thugs who rise up against the NWO or whatever. This can't be talking about anything else but falling away from faith in Christ, like the seed sprouting out from shallow soil and then withering away in the scorch of the sun, like Peter denying Him three times. That is already happening over the past two years, the millennial generation is the least religious generation throughout the entire history, the lockdown, quarantine, mandate and everything else during the pandemic were just the last straw that broke the camel's back. This falling away from traditional christian values is almost palpable in the air, and it really breaks my heart. How could anybody be so blind to this reality is totally beyond me.

 

[cv5]

When it says in the first chapter that this is a PROPHECY, and things will "take place after these things", be absolutely sure that this last book of the bible covers the ENTIRE church age. John was only using the current places, names and concepts to describe the future, using what he knew to describe what he didn't know, what he was familiar with for what he was NOT familiar with. Although it says in chapter 1 that this is addressing to the seven churches in Asia, later in chapter 4, the Lamb appears with seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits that are sent out to the ENTIRE WORLD, did you catch that?

Wrong again. Descriptions of those Churches are definitely written for time and place of their early original existence. EVEN THOUGH there is a futurist prophetic aspect as well. And several other aspects to boot. Nevertheless the apostasy and heresy problems so described were a problem for that original time and place.

Rev 1:19
Write the things what you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will take place after this."

 

[pottersclay]

Could you provide any of the "many scriptures" that actually "suggest" a pretrib rapture?

Let me start somewhere that probably has not been the ideally starting place for discussion.

What does it mean to you that the time of the gentiles be fulfilled?
Fulfilled is completed. So there is a beginning and end. What happens then with the church?
Now paul suggest that there's something that stands in the way of the appearing of the man of sin.
That untill it's removed then the man of sin is revealed.
Now if you say it's the church where'd it go? If you say it's the Holy Spirit then how can the church operate?

 

[cv5]

Yeah, I debunked it in my thread. All 70 weeks were already fulfilled by Jesus.



Even if that definition is true, this letter was still addressing to the church of Thessalonica, not anybody else, not any rebels or thugs who rise up against the NWO or whatever. This can't be talking about anything else but falling away from faith in Christ, like the seed sprouting out from shallow soil and then withering away in the scorch of the sun, like Peter denying Him three times. That is already happening over the past two years, the millennial generation is the least religious generation throughout the entire history, the lockdown, quarantine, mandate and everything else during the pandemic were just the last straw that broke the camel's back. This falling away from traditional christian values is almost palpable in the air, and it really breaks my heart. How could anybody be so blind to this reality is totally beyond me.

I have never seen anything that comes even remotely close to supporting the fulfillment of 70 continuous weeks completely fulfilled 2000 years ago. Trying to do so makes one look like a desperate fool. And it requires the lowest of the low views of Scripture. Generally the people supporting that view are heretic replacement theologians. Or heretic hard core preterists.

 

[pottersclay]

Yeah, I debunked it in my thread. All 70 weeks were already fulfilled by Jesus.



Even if that definition is true, this letter was still addressing to the church of Thessalonica, not anybody else, not any rebels or thugs who rise up against the NWO or whatever. This can't be talking about anything else but falling away from faith in Christ, like the seed sprouting out from shallow soil and then withering away in the scorch of the sun, like Peter denying Him three times. That is already happening over the past two years, the millennial generation is the least religious generation throughout the entire history, the lockdown, quarantine, mandate and everything else during the pandemic were just the last straw that broke the camel's back. This falling away from traditional christian values is almost palpable in the air, and it really breaks my heart. How could anybody be so blind to this reality is totally beyond me.

Jesus has not yet fulfilled the prophecies...nor the feast holidays...how has he fulfilled daniels 70 weeks.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Wrong again. Descriptions of those Churches are definitely written for time and place of their early original existence. EVEN THOUGH there is a futurist prophetic aspect as well. And several other aspects to boot. Nevertheless the apostasy and heresy problems so described were a problem for that original time and place.

Rev 1:19
Write the things what you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will take place after this."

Wrong again. Descriptions of those Churches are definitely written for time and place of their early original existence. EVEN THOUGH there is a futurist prophetic aspect as well. And several other aspects to boot. Nevertheless the apostasy and heresy problems so described were a problem for that original time and place.

Rev 1:19
Write the things what you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will take place after this."

"What you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will take place after this" sets the tone and the structure of the book of Revelation. The sight of glorified Jesus in chapter 1 is "what you have seen," letters to the seven churches are "the things which are", that spans from John's time in the first century to the final tribulation, and the final tribulation at the end time is "the things which will take place after this". Laocidea church, the last one, is us. It's not anybody else, not an ancient trading town at the downstream of a hot spring in modern day Turkey, that's a portrait of most megachurches in America. The lukewarm and complacent christians yielded our schools, our government, our institutions to the devil. You're deceiving yourself if you think this is somebody else's problem. Pre-trib rapture as the very topic of this thread is a deadly heresy.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I have never seen anything that comes even remotely close to supporting the fulfillment of 70 continuous weeks completely fulfilled 2000 years ago. Trying to do so makes one look like a desperate fool. And it requires the lowest of the low views of Scripture. Generally the people supporting that view are heretic replacement theologians. Or heretic hard core preterists.

Pre-tribbers are the desperate fools who are stuffing a political thriller into the 70 weeks prophecy. If you're looking for the Antichrist, go read about the Little Horn in chapter 8, go read about the Northern King in 11:36-45. The 70 weeks prophecy is an answered prayer for Daniel from angel Gabriel - the same angel who declared the good news to Joseph and Mary.

 

[cv5]

Pre-tribbers are the desperate fools who are stuffing a political thriller into the 70 weeks prophecy. If you're looking for the Antichrist, go read about the Little Horn in chapter 8, go read about the Northern King in 11:36-45. The 70 weeks prophecy is an answered prayer for Daniel from angel Gabriel - the same angel who declared the good news to Joseph and Mary.

I'm not looking for the antichrist. I will never see the antichrist. I will not be on earth when the antichrist is revealed. That would be your problem.

 

[Beckie]

I have never seen anything that comes even remotely close to supporting the fulfillment of 70 continuous weeks completely fulfilled 2000 years ago. Trying to do so makes one look like a desperate fool. And it requires the lowest of the low views of Scripture. Generally the people supporting that view are heretic replacement theologians. Or heretic hard core preterists.

And people tell me dispensationalism does not equate the Body of Christ to 'plan B'... Twist and turn a prophesy of God a simple one. I believe God knows how to count to 70 all by Himself

 

[Beckie]

I'm not looking for the antichrist. I will never see the antichrist. I will not be on earth when the antichrist is revealed. That would be your problem.

Here are the 5 times 'antichrist' is used in Scripture which one speaks of a revealing ?
1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[cv5]

Jesus has not yet fulfilled the prophecies...nor the feast holidays...how has he fulfilled daniels 70 weeks.

Absolutely correct. The latter moed'im are fulfilled during the 70th week of Daniel and the Millennium.

These post-tribbers have no idea of what their talking about. Free Grace had no idea that Jesus was actually resurrected on the very day of the feast of first fruits. And that He almost immediately ascended to heaven. And then returned. Now that is pathetic ignorance. Truly pathetic.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I'm not looking for the antichrist. I will never see the antichrist. I will not be on earth when the antichrist is revealed. That would be your problem.

Neither am I, every Christian should look for Christ, not Antichrist, but that doesn't mean the Antichrist is a fictional boogeyman, or we could just ignore all the warnings and prophecies about him and render him as utterly irrelevant by burying our heads in a fantasy of a "pre-trib" bailout. You know, this is just as Hitch said, that is just another futile effort to cheat death. God himself became flesh and died an earthly death in the most painful way, what makes you think you can get an easy way out? Just because those "experts" said so? No servant is greater than his master.

 

[cv5]

And people tell me dispensationalism does not equate the Body of Christ to 'plan B'... Twist and turn a prophesy of God a simple one. I believe God knows how to count to 70 all by Himself

Present your thesis of how the latter feasts of Moses relate to the Tribulation/70th week/DOTL.

If indeed you are able. Which I very much doubt.

 

[Hitch]

I have never seen anything that comes even remotely close to supporting the fulfillment of 70 continuous weeks completely fulfilled 2000 years ago. Trying to do so makes one look like a desperate fool. And it requires the lowest of the low views of Scripture. Generally the people supporting that view are heretic replacement theologians. Or heretic hard core preterists.

LMAO

 

[Hitch]

I have never seen anything that comes even remotely close to supporting the fulfillment of 70 continuous weeks completely fulfilled 2000 years ago. Trying to do so makes one look like a desperate fool. And it requires the lowest of the low views of Scripture. Generally the people supporting that view are heretic replacement theologians. Or heretic hard core preterists.

OK So quote a few Reformers agreeing with you. Or anyone prior to 1830. I'll wait.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Present your thesis of how the latter feasts of Moses relate to the Tribulation/70th week/DOTL.

If indeed you are able. Which I very much doubt.

Sounding of trumpets, rally of the "elect", judgement of souls and repentance of sins are all typical costums of the fall feasts. Jesus fulfilled the Passover, Unleavened Bread, and First Fruit in his death, burial and resurrection in His first coming, the Church fulfilled the Pentecost, and the rest three feasts are gonna be fulfilled in His second coming. If you persist to ignore and deny this prophetic picture then that's your choice, I have nothing further to say.