No. You gave me alot of Scriptures how I will be burnt in hell. You did not explain how hell can burn hell. I get it, I will burn in hell but tell me more details of this single hell. Your reasoning is like the famous "or else" that mother used to say. Conform hell to this verse Rev 20:14 as all verses must conform, no?
Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
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Oh, you say you believe what Jesus said?
Jesus told Paul we put on our immortal body at the resurrection, not at death.
Jesus told Job and Solomon the dead don't know anything.
Jesus told Solomon the dead can't return to warn anybody about anything.
Jesus told Peter the dead wicked are reserved for punishment at the day of Judgement "to be" punished.
Jesus told David the dead go down into silence.
Jesus told David and Solomon the dead have no memory.
Jesus told all the people not just the soul, but the body and soul are cast into hell "at the end of the world".
Which means Jesus' words in Luke 16 are a parable, not literal.
Why does the Eternal Torment crowd care nothing about Scriptural harmony?
Jesus told Paul we put on our immortal body at the resurrection, not at death.
Jesus told Job and Solomon the dead don't know anything.
Jesus told Solomon the dead can't return to warn anybody about anything.
Jesus told Peter the dead wicked are reserved for punishment at the day of Judgement "to be" punished.
Jesus told David the dead go down into silence.
Jesus told David and Solomon the dead have no memory.
Jesus told all the people not just the soul, but the body and soul are cast into hell "at the end of the world".
Which means Jesus' words in Luke 16 are a parable, not literal.
Why does the Eternal Torment crowd care nothing about Scriptural harmony?
haven't you read the next verse?
for he says, he will yet trust God even in death.
but look, Job is sure God is his salvation.
furthermore he prays:
Job does not expect to cease to exist, but to be concealed and wait upon God
Job does not expect to be utterly destroyed when his earthly life (('hard service')) is complete, but to be changed
Job knows God will call, and Job will hear Him from the grave, and rise
but assuredly, they are not - when God calls them, they will hear and answer
this is completely incompatible with the monistic-atheism view of death that you preach.
God does not annihilate all living souls by appointing them once to die.
we wait for Him - yet will i trust Him, even if He hides me in the grave - and when He calls, we will answer.
when He called Lazarus, did He say
"let a copy of Lazarus, whom I annihilated, be created, and filled with the memories of the original Lazarus who no longer exists, so that Lazarus 2.0 is deceived into believing he is the annihilated Lazarus 1.0, and thereby deceive the people into believing it is really him" ?
no - He calls Lazarus himself, saying 'come forth'
Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.
even so, I will defend my own ways before Him.
He also shall be my salvation
(Job 13:16)
if Job believes he will be annihilated upon physical death, then Job believes there is no salvation -for he says, he will yet trust God even in death.
but look, Job is sure God is his salvation.
furthermore he prays:
Oh, that You would hide me in the grave,
that You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
that You would appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man dies, shall he live again?
All the days of my hard service I will wait,
till my change comes.
You shall call, and I will answer You;
You shall desire the work of Your hands.
(Job 14:13-16)
Job does not wish God will annihilate him, but "hide" him in the grave.Job does not expect to cease to exist, but to be concealed and wait upon God
Job does not expect to be utterly destroyed when his earthly life (('hard service')) is complete, but to be changed
Job knows God will call, and Job will hear Him from the grave, and rise
Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is,
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
(John 5:25)
neither does Christ speak of those who are in the grave as though they do not exist. but assuredly, they are not - when God calls them, they will hear and answer
this is completely incompatible with the monistic-atheism view of death that you preach.
God does not annihilate all living souls by appointing them once to die.
we wait for Him - yet will i trust Him, even if He hides me in the grave - and when He calls, we will answer.
when He called Lazarus, did He say
"let a copy of Lazarus, whom I annihilated, be created, and filled with the memories of the original Lazarus who no longer exists, so that Lazarus 2.0 is deceived into believing he is the annihilated Lazarus 1.0, and thereby deceive the people into believing it is really him" ?
no - He calls Lazarus himself, saying 'come forth'
- Lazarus and the rich man exist apart from bodies of flesh
- in Luke 16 the rich man cannot return to those who still live in the body
- 'reserved for punishment' indicates they certainly still exist
- to the living, the dead are silent - this does not indicate annihilation but a gulf fixed between us
- Ecclesiastes 9 says the dead are forgotten by the living, and have no more share in what goes on under the sun - not that they cease to exist
- Jesus says do not fear those who can merely kill the body, but fear Him who can destroy the soul - clearly indicating that the soul is not annihilated upon the death of the body
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Perhaps you're able to see only ridiculously large font
since you use it constantly..so here you are:
since you use it constantly..so here you are:
The "eternal fire" of Sodom and Gomorrah is out.
The Jerusalem "fire that shalt not be quenched" burned itself out long ago.
"Forever" for Job was less than three days.
"Forever" for Samuel was until he died.
"Forever" for the devoted slave was until he died.
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I should know better than to engage a provocative, emotional basket case like you, but this is me exercising the patience of our Lord, so here we go:
Lazarus and the Rich Man exist only as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] in Luke 16 the rich man cannot return to those who still live in the body [/QUOTE] Neither can any dead, according to what Jesus told Job and Solomon.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] 'reserved for punishment' indicates they certainly still exist [/QUOTE] God can reserve for future punishment those who have ceased to exist by calling them back into existence at the appointed time just as surely as when He stepped out on to nothing and spoke to nothing and from absolutely nothing came forth everything.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] to the living, the dead are silent - this does not indicate annihilation but a gulf fixed between us [/QUOTE] "To the living" is your inference -- I'll stick with Scripture. BTW, if you insist on wrongly interpreting a passage, at least keep straight what's written in the passage before doing so. It doesn't say the great gulf is fixed between "us" - it's said to be fixed between dead folks and dead folks.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] Ecclesiastes 9 says the dead are forgotten by the living, [/QUOTE] Jesus told the Psalmist the annihilated dead are figuratively in a "land of forgetfulness" which means the forgetting takes place there, not here.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] and have no more share in what goes on under the sun [/QUOTE] And right here, you admit "Samuel" could not possibly have been Samuel, but a "familiar spirit"
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] Jesus says do not fear those who can merely kill the body, but fear Him who can destroy the soul - clearly indicating that the soul is not annihilated upon the death of the body [/QUOTE] From God's perspective, a soul He intends to call forth back into existence that in death has ceased to be is not considered "destroyed" by Him. Why do you think Jesus refers to the First Death only as "sleep"? Because He knows all shall awake and come forth in the resurrection. The Second Death, however is called such because it is a permanent death, an everlasting death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection. Wicked souls will "sleep the sleep of the (First) Death", be raised to the Second Life in the Resurrection of the Damned, and end up dying the Second Death.
Lazarus and the Rich Man exist only as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] in Luke 16 the rich man cannot return to those who still live in the body [/QUOTE] Neither can any dead, according to what Jesus told Job and Solomon.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] 'reserved for punishment' indicates they certainly still exist [/QUOTE] God can reserve for future punishment those who have ceased to exist by calling them back into existence at the appointed time just as surely as when He stepped out on to nothing and spoke to nothing and from absolutely nothing came forth everything.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] to the living, the dead are silent - this does not indicate annihilation but a gulf fixed between us [/QUOTE] "To the living" is your inference -- I'll stick with Scripture. BTW, if you insist on wrongly interpreting a passage, at least keep straight what's written in the passage before doing so. It doesn't say the great gulf is fixed between "us" - it's said to be fixed between dead folks and dead folks.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] Ecclesiastes 9 says the dead are forgotten by the living, [/QUOTE] Jesus told the Psalmist the annihilated dead are figuratively in a "land of forgetfulness" which means the forgetting takes place there, not here.
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] and have no more share in what goes on under the sun [/QUOTE] And right here, you admit "Samuel" could not possibly have been Samuel, but a "familiar spirit"
QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4787708, member: 170505"] Jesus says do not fear those who can merely kill the body, but fear Him who can destroy the soul - clearly indicating that the soul is not annihilated upon the death of the body [/QUOTE] From God's perspective, a soul He intends to call forth back into existence that in death has ceased to be is not considered "destroyed" by Him. Why do you think Jesus refers to the First Death only as "sleep"? Because He knows all shall awake and come forth in the resurrection. The Second Death, however is called such because it is a permanent death, an everlasting death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection. Wicked souls will "sleep the sleep of the (First) Death", be raised to the Second Life in the Resurrection of the Damned, and end up dying the Second Death.
Job existed only as a consequence of the union his non-worm body and the breath of life. At his death, the breath returned to God, his body to the worms, and "Job" the "living soul" ceased to be. Here, he is merely expression faith that God will provide to him a resurrection body when He calls him back into existence at the resurrection.
but you, like all monistic atheists, say Job is utterly annihilated by his physical death and no longer exists.
therefore it would not be Job himself whose own eyes will behold God, but another. a facsimile imposter made up to look like Job.
your claim, which is the claim of atheism, Job specifically refutes.
is there anyone in scripture your monistic evolutionary atheism worldview does not contradict?
Eliphaz says of the wicked that they believe they will be annihilated:
The wicked man writhes with pain all his days,
and the number of years is hidden from the oppressor.
Dreadful sounds are in his ears;
in prosperity the destroyer comes upon him.
He does not believe that he will return from darkness,
for a sword is waiting for him.
(Job 15:20-22)
the testimony here is that it is a perverse & debased mind which preaches that souls do not return from darkness.(Job 15:20-22)
First of all, in order for a person to experience "eternal torment" one would have to be existing. This is why it is important to understand the story of the rich man and Lazarus. It states that both men died, yet their spirits were in Hades, conscious and aware. The rich man could see and speak with Abraham's spirit. And the rich man could experience the torment of the flame.The state of death is conscious existence, not nonexistence.