when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.

[LactoseIntolerant]

God created all things good. It is plain from God's word that Satan chose to rebel against God. That is the risk you take when you give a being free will. Satan made himself God's enemy and took a third of the angels along with him.

God gave Adam authority over every creature on the earth, and that includes Satan. Adam handed over his authority to Satan. Lord Jesus came as the Last Adam and took that authority back, and gave it to believers. God is holy and righteous. He does not go back on His word.

Now those who are born again have the right and responsibility of casting Satan down (Revelation 12). Jesus told us that the Kingdom of God is the place where demons are cast out. God permits evil spirit, yes. He's also given the Body of Christ the authority and power to deal with them. And that's the problem with delegated authority. If we do not exercise our authority, we are failing in kingdom work.

Angels are to minister to the faithful. Not be subject to the man. To minister at the behest of God to the weaker siblings.
Psalm 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

So when satan is a serpent, Adam is king. When satan is evil supreme, was Adam king?
Jude 1:9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jesus came from Heaven, and Adam from the earth. Adam was never given authority of heavenly matters.
Adam was expelled as he failed to obey the covenant between he and God. Not because he gave satan authority.
Gen 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Where and when they were given authority to cast out demons?
Luke 9:1Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

If evil spirits are cast out of heaven. No evil there
Rev 12:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
So what evil spirit is permitted? God kicks all from heaven. He even has sanctions against them

Deu 18:10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Now you say he "permits" spirits to do whatever. Are you saying God is a hypocrite?

The caveat of delegated authority is you must be in agreement with the authorizer.

Psalm 143:10Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.
11Quicken me, O LORD, for thy name's sake: for thy righteousness' sake bring my soul out of trouble.

God saying one thing and doing another?
Mark 3:23And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 24And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

"If we do not exercise our authority, we are failing in kingdom work." Is this unconditional election?

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

I believe that Paul' s thorn in the flesh was guilt from doing the things that he didn't really want to do while neglecting the things that he thought that he should do. Regardless, the grace of God was sufficient.

It could be but he had the Apostolic character. He submitted to hierarchy and duty. Performed under all sorts of duress. So to me flesh indicates an inexorable condition that was beyond his character can alleviate. The psychological is well within the control of an Apostle. IMO.

 

[Dino246]

I don’t. I also don’t believe an unsaved person can partake of agape love of God
I think you’ve totally missed the point which has nothing to do with whom salvation is available.

God can impart His agape love to whenever He chooses, but they MUST FIRST be changed from a sinner to a saint, from wicked to righteous.

It seems to me that you have put the unsaved in a catch-22. They must first receive the agape of God's grace before they can partake of God's agape.

I also think you're playing word games, and that your position would fall apart if you used plain English... think "common grace" versus "saving grace".

 

[rogerg]

God can impart His agape love to whenever He chooses, but they MUST FIRST be changed from a sinner to a saint, from wicked to righteous.

Maybe I did miss your point. I don't believe salvation is available to everyone. What I was trying to say is that as with Saul, the change you speak of comes by the Holy from being saved: there are no prerequisites to salvation, except that God has chosen someone for it. Salvation in all respects is fully God's work, to which, we can contribute nothing. Was that your point?

 

[RichMan]

Maybe I did miss your point. I don't believe salvation is available to everyone. What I was trying to say is that as with Saul, the change you speak of comes by the Holy from being saved: there are no prerequisites to salvation, except that God has chosen someone for it. Salvation in all respects is fully God's work, to which, we can contribute nothing. Was that your point?

How do you explain 2 Peter 3:9

 

[tourist]

I always though Paul may have had a fear of failing his Savior because of what you stated.
Not that he would lose his salvation, but just to fail the one who gave so much.

Your estimation of Paul's fear of failure and coming up short in the eyes of the Lord is probably right on target.

 

[RichMan]

Your estimation of Paul's fear of failure and coming up short in the eyes of the Lord is probably right on target.

Have you ever considered how much could be accomplished if we all had Paul's mindset?

 

[rogerg]

How do you explain 2 Peter 3:9

Well, let me give it a try:

[2Pe 3:9 KJV] 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I think to understand it, we need to understand who Peter was addressing. To find that, we need to look at his
salutation in the beginning of 2 Peter:

[2Pe 1:1, 3 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: ...
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

So, as I read it, the "to-usward" of 2 Pe 3:9 (which is what I think you are referring to), represents those who had obtained faith
through their own efforts? NO, but through the righteousness of Christ. They represent, and are symbolic of the "us-ward"

 

[wintersrain]

Anyone who told you your Christian live is over because you are divorced ought to be flogged.

I wouldn't agree with flogging. I would agree whoever taught such a thing is horribly misinformed.
If they're also Christian that would be pretty bad. Because their personal faith teeters on that lie. That they can do something that will end their Christian life.

 

[tourist]

Have you ever considered how much could be accomplished if we all had Paul's mindset?

Paul is my favorite bible character. I can relate to his humility and the humanity that he shows in his writing. If just 1% of Christians were like Paul this world be a much better place. Sadly, I don't include myself in that 1%.

 

[Magenta]

Maybe I did miss your point. I don't believe salvation is available to everyone. What I was trying to say is that as with Saul, the change you speak of comes by the Holy from being saved: there are no prerequisites to salvation, except that God has chosen someone for it. Salvation in all respects is fully God's work, to which, we can contribute nothing. Was that your point?

1 John 2:1-2

 

[rogerg]

How do you explain 2 Peter 3:9

For clarity, in my prior reply to your question, I should have included that those who obtained faith
through the righteousness of Christ was not intended for everyone, but only to those whom God had chosen to such.

 

[RichMan]

For clarity, in my prior reply to your question, I should have included that those who obtained faith
through the righteousness of Christ was not intended for everyone, but only to those whom God had chosen to such.

I fully reject Calvinism.
It is heresy.

 

[rogerg]

1 John 2:1-2

[1Jo 2:2 KJV] 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

I believe the "world" that is the subject of this verse ( your point), is not this current world. but the world that is to come.

[Mar 10:30 KJV] 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

 

[wintersrain]

Not sure what you're talking about.

Backstory:
Brother Posthuman claims wicked people like mass murderers, Satan worshipers, and homicidal rapists can partake of "agape" love of God.

He said that because the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV whose "agape" grows cold, leaving them unable to endure to the end and lost, can't be any other than SAINTS - and if these are allowed to remain SAINTS then OSAS dies a horrible, agonizing death right here...so, his solution is to argue these "many" are actually "the wicked".

What say you? Can the wicked partake of "agape"?

Why don't you copy and paste where that person said what you claim of them?

And rather than others defending that person didn't say the things you claim, why don't we wait to hear the person themself speak up?


Someone said this earlier in their post:
"if you are already saved why would you have to get to the end to be confirmed as saved? "

Great point! Sustains eternal Salvation all the way imo. If we're saved we're saved every moment of every day.

 

[Phoneman-777]

That's Old Testament. Please provide New Testament proof that we are able to undo God's will by our free choice to elect Hell over eternal life with God.

It is a popular misconception that OT salvation was different than NT salvation. They were saved by grace through faith looking forward to the Cross and demonstrated their faith by obedience - we are saved the same way, looking back to the Cross, and demonstrate our faith by obedience, as well.

Particularly of importance to me are verses that state we are unborn in him, and return to our fallen state, after we choose to lose what God himself gifted us with by his grace, not our choice, alone. That would be faith and Salvation. That God stated are irrevocable.
But you say that's not so. Proceed please. New Testament Books, chapters, verses. Where, as you claim, Christians are able to choose to overcome what God decreed unchangeable.

Sure!

1. The Unmerciful Servant was threatened with prison (in which he would die) for an impossible debt (sin) to his master (Heavenly Father) and was fully forgiven after begging for mercy...only to have that forgiveness revoked, his impossible debt reinstated, and himself imprisoned until he could pay the debt because he failed to manifest the same forgiving character to his master.

2. The "many" whose "agape" grows cold in Matthew 24:12 KJV are "saints" - because the wicked cannot partake of "agape".
Proof? 1 John 5:3 KJV says "agape" is demonstrated by obedience, but Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked cannot obey even if they want to. Therefore, these "many" who allow iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead are unable to endure to the end and wind up lost, being more spit-worthy from Jesus' mouth than the merely lukewarm Laodiceans, in contrast to those "that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved" in verse 13.

3. Peter says if sinners escape the pollutions of this world, but again become entangled therein, their fate is worse than before. "Escaped" precisely means "no longer in bondage to a thing" which in this case refers to "sin". What do we call someone who is freed from the bondage of sin? A saint. If the saint becomes entangled again in the world, his fate is worse than before he became a saint.

4. The "partakers of the Holy Ghost", who will become irreversibly impenitent if they should "fall away", are saints.
Proof? Acts 5:32 KJV says God gives the Holy Ghost to "them that obey Him", but Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't obey Him, even if they want to. Therefore, being unable to obey, the wicked cannot "partake" of the Holy Spirit.

Also, before we can "fall away" from something - a roof, cliff, hot air balloon - that something must first be providing "security and support". What and what alone qualifies, contextually, as that "security and support" from which to "fall away"? Jesus.

5. Paul acknowledged it was possible for him to preach to others, but himself be judged a "castaway". David prayed feverishly, "Cast me not away from Thy presence, and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me!" No sane man will argue "castaway" and "without the Holy Spirit" means anything else here but "rejected" and "lost".

6. Paul says those who were initially justified through faith are "fallen from grace" if they begin to look to the law for justification. If grace is what saves you, but you fall from it, how can you continue to be saved?

7. Jesus said if we "branches" fail to abide (continue) in Him, we are "burned in the fire". What kind of branches are burned? Dead branches, not living ones.

Look, I could list more examples, but I don't want to be counted among those who post mini novels, so....

 

[Phoneman-777]

Anyone who told you your Christian live is over because you are divorced ought to be flogged.

Yes, their is Biblical divorce and unBiblical divorce.

 

[Phoneman-777]

It seems to me that you have put the unsaved in a catch-22. They must first receive the agape of God's grace before they can partake of God's agape.

It seems you don't understand the order of things. God doesn't impart "agape" to the devil worshiper while he and his chicken blood covered knife are being led to Destination: Repentance, which is located in the "Valley of Decision". Once arrived, the devil worshiper must CHOOSE to stop sacrificing chickens in worship of Satan and accept Jesus in his heart before "agape" can be imparted to him.

I also think you're playing word games, and that your position would fall apart if you used plain English... think "common grace" versus "saving grace".

I don't play games...get busy deconstructing that "Matthew 24:12-13 KJV" argument against OSAS, or stop wasting cyberspace.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Maybe I did miss your point. I don't believe salvation is available to everyone. What I was trying to say is that as with Saul, the change you speak of comes by the Holy from being saved: there are no prerequisites to salvation, except that God has chosen someone for it. Salvation in all respects is fully God's work, to which, we can contribute nothing. Was that your point?

It's best to adequately acquaint one's self with what others debates points are before jumping in. You can rewind through the posts to see.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Why don't you copy and paste where that person said what you claim of them?

Because we're supposed to be Christians here, thus we're supposed to speak only truth.

I think the only ones that should be required to heed your counsel are they who thinks the Ten Commandments are the Ten Suggestions, and that "thou shalt not bear false witness" was nailed to the Cross.