Where will power meets the Holy Spirit

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
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#21
Will power plays a significant role in the Christian life. We are told to resist the devil so he flees from us, another way of saying to not give in to temptation. We are also instructed that our works will reveal the transformation the Holy Spirit has done in us (not that works will save us). These are two examples of will power, free will, choice, whatever word or phrase you wish to use. The simple fact is, we have to choose to follow Christ and His commands, and that means living our lives in a way that honors him. It is a choice at least on some level, not only the moment we accept but every day when we bring our struggles and failures back to the cross.

Yet we also know our own weaknesses. We know where we fail, and fail daily. The Holy Spirit goes to work immediately to transform us once we accept Christ. We also rely upon the Holy Spirit to guide us, teach us, draw us closer to the Father, etc.

Where do you believe the line is between human will/our choices/et al and the Holy Spirit? Or is there a line at all? How do we view both with the proper perspective?
it’s about allowing the gospel to change our Will because we believe it more than we do our own thoughts over to christs Will for us

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will

and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he works in us because of this

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we met the fospel in and believe as we are commanded to do it is able by that belief to change our sorry or knowledge and will to keep sinning , and create the will of Gods children in us to walk upright pleasing lives before God following after the only son because we are the children

if we let christs word mean more Than our own thoughts and ideas and ways it will change our thoughts and ideas and ways teaching us true discernment and transforming our Will to meet the lords will for us

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. ( our Will )

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The only thing that can change our mind and heart to what Christ wills is to believe the gospel

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


it’s truly a process of hearing and believing the gospel learning from Jesus and allowing the gospel to become part of our minds and hearts this allows for the powerful word of Christ to teach us true discernment of good and evil or our corrupt Will and Gods good pleasing and perfect Will for us in Christ

it takes a lifetime but really our fight is one day long and renewed each day and we’re always only held accountable for the measure of understanding he’s given us so we don’t have to live up to others standards but what Christ is teaching us

sorry for the length loves the post !! If we let the gospel change our mind and heart the actions will follow Godnis working in believers through his word to change our Will from sinner to child of the living God when our Will changes so do those bonds we once knew they become shattered chains laying at our feet

you’ve got on an important thing our Will is the issue Gods Will on the gospel is our answer and healing our redemption
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#22
Will power plays a significant role in the Christian life. We are told to resist the devil so he flees from us, another way of saying to not give in to temptation. We are also instructed that our works will reveal the transformation the Holy Spirit has done in us (not that works will save us). These are two examples of will power, free will, choice, whatever word or phrase you wish to use. The simple fact is, we have to choose to follow Christ and His commands, and that means living our lives in a way that honors him. It is a choice at least on some level, not only the moment we accept but every day when we bring our struggles and failures back to the cross.

Yet we also know our own weaknesses. We know where we fail, and fail daily. The Holy Spirit goes to work immediately to transform us once we accept Christ. We also rely upon the Holy Spirit to guide us, teach us, draw us closer to the Father, etc.

Where do you believe the line is between human will/our choices/et al and the Holy Spirit? Or is there a line at all? How do we view both with the proper perspective?
The answer IMHO is in prayer. In prayer we ask God for guidance, strength, answers, help, etc for the day. THAT is where we yield to him (when we are alone in our prayer closets). And what is done in secret is made manifest as we walk it out through the day.

If we reverse that and think "How we walk through the day" is yielding to him... THAT is relying on ourselves and our works.

Seeking him in prayer and then DOING works through the faith, guidance, strength, answers, help, etc. that he provides is relying on HIM, not ourselves.

People get that backwards.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#23
And most don't even realize that that's what speaking in tongues is for. Prayer. So we can walk in the strength of the spirit rather than the will of the flesh. Romans 8:26 KJV
"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."​

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#24
It bears repeating.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phl 2:13, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
113
#25
It bears repeating.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phl 2:13, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
amen where there’s a Will …..there’s a way
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#26
The answer IMHO is in prayer. In prayer we ask God for guidance, strength, answers, help, etc for the day. THAT is where we yield to him (when we are alone in our prayer closets). And what is done in secret is made manifest as we walk it out through the day.

If we reverse that and think "How we walk through the day" is yielding to him... THAT is relying on ourselves and our works.

Seeking him in prayer and then DOING works through the faith, guidance, strength, answers, help, etc. that he provides is relying on HIM, not ourselves.

People get that backwards.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I agree, but your description of prayer is not the way some people pray. For some it is a matter of telling the Lord their troubles and asking God to fix it.

There was a study done in the 60's of the effectiveness of prayer. Three groups had problems they needed to solve. One group studied prayer and used God's instructions about it, one group spent half and hour a day in prayer with no instructions, one group went to a psychiatrist. Those who prayed on their own got worse. They simply repeated their problems to the Lord, and for example one said over and over Lord, I have arthritis. So the Lord gave him more arthritis. Prayer, God's way, did miracles.

God knows our troubles, prayer needs to be learning God's will for us--it is "thy will be done". God wills wonderful things for us when we give our will to him.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#27
I agree, but your description of prayer is not the way some people pray. For some it is a matter of telling the Lord their troubles and asking God to fix it.

There was a study done in the 60's of the effectiveness of prayer. Three groups had problems they needed to solve. One group studied prayer and used God's instructions about it, one group spent half and hour a day in prayer with no instructions, one group went to a psychiatrist. Those who prayed on their own got worse. They simply repeated their problems to the Lord, and for example one said over and over Lord, I have arthritis. So the Lord gave him more arthritis. Prayer, God's way, did miracles.

God knows our troubles, prayer needs to be learning God's will for us--it is "thy will be done". God wills wonderful things for us when we give our will to him.
I've told this story before but will summarize it here as it goes along with the results of the test. I conversed with a pastor from Sri Lanka. He said he needed a motorcycle to meet his needs. I said he needed God and God would provide. We argued over this because he kept proclaiming his lack and that I needed to send him money (that I didn't have) OR come there to help. I kept saying he didn't need me, he just needed God because God PROVIDES for the needs of his saints, and that I need to stay where God put me until God tells me otherwise.

Finally I ended the conversation (rather peeved) and instructing him to be ready because I was going to pray SINCERELY for him with full expectation for God to move (if for no other reason than to shut him up.) Instead of giving the provision to him, God gave $1000 to me which i had to donate to his church here in the states in order for it to be sent to him.

I asked God why he didn't just give the money directly to the pastor. He said "Listen to his words compared to yours. All he spoke was lack and need, so all I could give him was lack and need. You spoke of my provision so I could give to YOU my provision, and you can give to him (because man is not as strictly obligated to keep every rule as God is)" And he showed me how he is merciful enough to work like that to get answers to us even when WE are praying in a way that hinders the answer.

In your story, the prayer was working fine. The pray-ers were simply choosing the wrong things to speak into existence.

Thanks for sharing. Your story helps show why it's important to read God's word to inform our speech, as if it is powerful enough to produce life AND death... which it is.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#28
Where do you believe the line is between human will/our choices/et al and the Holy Spirit? Or is there a line at all? How do we view both with the proper perspective?
The line that separates human will and the Spirit's transformation is between the natural and the supernatural.