Question in story of noah.

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Gardenias

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Think of it in terms of Jesus, WHO was the TRUTH and Orchestrated the LAW Himself to Moses, debating with the pharisees who were merely Students of the Law and had perverted the Law for their selfish gain.



We however are NOT Jesus,we are his disciples,followers and believers.He has instructed us how to act. By this ( LOVE) shall they know ye are my disciples,if ye have LOVE one to another!

I can agree there are many modern day Pharisees, I see what they write.

The selfish gain is PRIDE!
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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The word Torah can mean many different things, but in general it refers to the first five books of the Jewish Bible, which is known as the Pentateuch. However, “torah” is also used to refer to the entire Jewish Bible as well as the whole body of Jewish laws and teaching. According to Jewish tradition, the oral Torah was given to Moses on Mount Sinai by God, who then passed on what he learned to the Jewish people.


No one knows for sure when the Torah was first written down, but scholars believe that the final version of the Torah we have today was recorded during the Babylonian exile (c.539 BCE). A few fragments of texts from around this time period have survived, but the oldest complete Torah only dates to the 11th or 12th century.
The Aleppo Codex was at one point the oldest and most accurate copy of the complete Hebrew Bible. For more than a thousand years, the Aleppo Codex was carefully preserved by Jewish communities in the Middle East. It resided in Aleppo, Syria for hundreds of years before being destroyed in 1947 after riots broke out in Syria following the establishing of the State of Israel.

Initially, everyone thought that the Aleppo Codex had been completely destroyed, but parts of it were secretly rescued. In 1958, the remaining Aleppo Codex was smuggled out of Syria and taken to Jerusalem for safe keeping. Today only about 295 pages of the Aleppo Codex have survived, including nearly all of the Torah (the Pentateuch). Over the years, a few of the missing pages have turned up and many efforts have been made to find the rest of the Aleppo Codex.


The Aleppo Codex was at one point the oldest and most accurate copy of the complete Hebrew Bible. For more than a thousand years, the Aleppo Codex was carefully preserved by Jewish communities in the Middle East. It resided in Aleppo, Syria for hundreds of years before being destroyed in 1947 after riots broke out in Syria following the establishing of the State of Israel.

Initially, everyone thought that the Aleppo Codex had been completely destroyed, but parts of it were secretly rescued. In 1958, the remaining Aleppo Codex was smuggled out of Syria and taken to Jerusalem for safe keeping. Today only about 295 pages of the Aleppo Codex have survived, including nearly all of the Torah (the Pentateuch). Over the years, a few of the missing pages have turned up and many efforts have been made to find the rest of the Aleppo Codex.




The Damascus Pentateuch is the oldest, almost complete manuscript containing only the Torah of the Hebrew Bible. While the manuscript contains most of the Torah, the beginning is missing parts of Genesis, as it starts at Genesis 9:26; Exodus 18:1–23 is also missing. The Damascus Pentateuch was written around 1000 CE and includes full vocalization, accentuation, and Masoretic annotation.

The manuscript was named after the Jewish community of Damascus, who owned the Pentateuch until 1915 when it was acquired by a collector named D.S. Sassoon. Since 1975, the Damascus Pentateuch has belonged to the Jewish National and University Library of Israel.
 
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How do we know that the Torah we have today is the same text given on Mount Sinai?

The Torah was originally dictated from God to Moses, letter for letter. From there, the Midrash (Devarim Rabba 9:9) tells us:

Before his death, Moses wrote 13 Torah Scrolls. Twelve of these were distributed to each of the 12 Tribes. The 13th was placed in the Ark of the Covenant (with the Tablets). If anyone would come and attempt to rewrite or falsify the Torah, the one in the Ark would "testify" against him. (Likewise, if he had access to the scroll in the Ark and tried to falsify it, the distributed copies would "testify" against him.)​
How were the new scrolls verified? An authentic "proof text" was always kept in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, against which all other scrolls would be checked. Following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, the Sages would periodically perform global checks to weed out any scribal errors.
 
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We however are NOT Jesus,we are his disciples,followers and believers.He has instructed us how to act. By this ( LOVE) shall they know ye are my disciples,if ye have LOVE one to another!

I can agree there are many modern day Pharisees, I see what they write.

The selfish gain is PRIDE!
Which is the example of Pride, Standing on the "Truths" of having a text that is closer to the Version Moses wrote, or a Version that was turned into Greek, then Latin before translated into English?
 
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What is theright interpertation of son of gods and daughter of men???
Read Genesis 4-6. Both are explained in those chapters. If you need further help, I will show you the texts in their context. Let me know if you struggle and I will help you, but I want you to get on your knees, ask God in all seriousness for truth and understanding, to follow what is revealed and to share it. Then ask for the Holy Spirit to lead you when you read those chapters, then believe God will answer the sincere prayer of His child. Pray and ask, read and pray while you ask and think. Turn away from all commentary and human thought, and simply read God's word. I recommend the King James Bible, but if you have another start with it and afterwards read it from the King James.

Then afterward, I will be glad to help confirm what God shares with you, just get my attention.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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How do we know that the Torah we have today is the same text given on Mount Sinai?

The Torah was originally dictated from God to Moses, letter for letter. From there, the Midrash (Devarim Rabba 9:9) tells us:

Before his death, Moses wrote 13 Torah Scrolls. Twelve of these were distributed to each of the 12 Tribes. The 13th was placed in the Ark of the Covenant (with the Tablets). If anyone would come and attempt to rewrite or falsify the Torah, the one in the Ark would "testify" against him. (Likewise, if he had access to the scroll in the Ark and tried to falsify it, the distributed copies would "testify" against him.)​
How were the new scrolls verified? An authentic "proof text" was always kept in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, against which all other scrolls would be checked. Following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, the Sages would periodically perform global checks to weed out any scribal errors.
All 12 Tribes had their own Torah and it's been passed down Generation to Generation.

And the one in the Ark of the Covenant is still hidden.

Plus the 70 A.D. one when the Temple was destroyed is in Rome.

As a member of a family of Sephardim Jews, we don't advertise this because it's our best kept secret from the world!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Devarim Rabbah Talmudic Israel/Babylon, 900 CE

Devarim Rabbah is a midrash on the Book of Deuteronomy compiled in Israel sometime between the 6th and 9th centuries. It consists of 27 sermons on select verses of Deuteronomy, rather than running commentary on the whole book. These sermons were later organized into 11 sections to correspond to the weekly portions of the annual Torah reading cycle. Each sermon starts with a legal question and ends with a consolatory message about the future.

Is the Midrash considered true and accurate?
Not necessarily; they are meant to fill in the gaps in the story, add exposition, or teach a moral lesson. They are not to be understood as literal truth.

It depends which Midrash you are talking about, and what you mean by ‘true and accurate’. The older midrashim (like Mechilta, Sifri, Bereishit Rabba etc.) were written by ancient Sages and considered part of the Oral Tradition and 100% reliable. However, much of their content is metaphoric and their aim is not necessarily to provide a historical account. Furthermore, copying errors have entered the text that we have and is not always easy to ascertain what the accurate text is. Later midrashim vary in their reliability.
 
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Jerusalem Report logo small (credit: JPOST STAFF)

Pretend for a moment that the Vatican has in its possession some sacred and precious relics that were originally in the Herodian Jewish Temple located in Jerusalem 1,950 years ago.


If you were the pope living in the 14th century and could verify this fact, would you not ask yourself how indeed such Jewish artifacts had come to your residence in the first place?



Top Articles By JPost






After some digging around (no pun intended), you would have found that your new Vatican residence was actually built over sections of Caesar’s Palace – the Vatican, including St. Peter’s Basilica, was constructed over Emperor Vespasian’s Roman palace approximately 200 years after the sacking of Rome in 455 AD. Indeed, there are excavations going on there right now, even as you read this magazine.


What this means is that the vandals and the Visigoths passed over, or simply didn’t find, the select treasures secreted away in that palace, and instead took with them the many items on public display in the Temple, located not far away.


It says in the Talmud that the famous Jewish sage and author of the Zohar, Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, went to Rome with his colleagues to nullify harsh decrees placed on Judea, and while there, saw the exact items mentioned in this article. They ended up being royal guests at Vespasian’s palace after being asked to attend to his ailing daughter. When they miraculously did heal her, the sages were afforded the chance to see these extremely holy items, proving that they were kept in that place.


The spiral stairs of the Vatican Museums, designed by Giuseppe Momo in 1932. (credit: Wikimedia Commons)

In fact, historian Josephus Flavius records the event in which Vespasian took for himself these items specifically as his special treasures for safekeeping, including an ancient Torah scroll.


According to Vatican expert Dr. Michael A. Calvo, those vessels and others found their way to the Vatican via another route, after making their way to Byzantium: “These include Temple candelabra given to Pope Innocent III by Baldwin I after the sacking of Constantinople and the massacre of the Christian Orthodox population,” Calvo claims. “Temple shofars and utensils; garments of the High Priest; the Tzitz – a gold plaque with the words Kodesh L’Hashem (“Holy to the Lord”); cultural objects, and many other objets d’art, books and manuscripts that the Vatican and other churches have appropriated and placed in their own storerooms, libraries and museums.”


But where is the factual, tangible proof that the Vatican “inherited” these sacred items and retains them until today?


The Israeli Foreign Affairs Ministry and security services may already have evidence: about 50 years ago, there was a certain Jewish student – let’s call him DM – who was enrolled in a correspondence course at the Urbaniana, the Vatican’s university. Upon attending in person for the last semesters of his doctorate, he found himself the only Jew among 17,000 students! DM told me that he was well-loved, but when push came to shove, both professor and student approached him respectfully in order to convert him.


After firmly refusing time after time, a friend of his (later to become one of the Vatican archivists, Cardinal Antonio Samore) offered to show him what “used to be” his Jewish heritage – the Temple vessels – in an attempt to entice him to convert. DM agreed to be taken to see them months later, at night. When I asked him if there was anything in that cave that had belonged to the Temple, he simply replied: “Everything is there!”


Did he really see anything, or just come close? Many years later, in 2002, DM apparently gave sufficient proof to then-foreign minister Shimon Peres and others who were in negotiation with high-level Vatican officials at the time. If this is true, Israel may already have a solid, well-documented case.


So now what? Today in the 21st century there is a thriving sovereign State of Israel, being the sole worldwide representative of the Jewish people, or the World Jewish Congress, both being adequate addresses to make an arrangement for some sort of repatriation deal.


In the meantime, Roman Catholic relations with Israel are on the rise, dialogue and cooperation with the Jewish state are close, and there are even several Jews who have been knighted by recent popes. So why not negotiate over whatever there is now?
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
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Which is the example of Pride, Standing on the "Truths" of having a text that is closer to the Version Moses wrote, or a Version that was turned into Greek, then Latin before translated into English?



The EXAMPLE of pride is refusing to be gracious and communicate as as reasonable and humble person rather than an I AM RIGHT grown adult!

We were not there in ancient times,we have what we have today by God's mercy, and it is STILL inspired and Holy Ghost breathed!
 
Dec 29, 2021
1,317
314
83
Jerusalem Report logo small (credit: JPOST STAFF)

Pretend for a moment that the Vatican has in its possession some sacred and precious relics that were originally in the Herodian Jewish Temple located in Jerusalem 1,950 years ago.


If you were the pope living in the 14th century and could verify this fact, would you not ask yourself how indeed such Jewish artifacts had come to your residence in the first place?



Top Articles By JPost






After some digging around (no pun intended), you would have found that your new Vatican residence was actually built over sections of Caesar’s Palace – the Vatican, including St. Peter’s Basilica, was constructed over Emperor Vespasian’s Roman palace approximately 200 years after the sacking of Rome in 455 AD. Indeed, there are excavations going on there right now, even as you read this magazine.


What this means is that the vandals and the Visigoths passed over, or simply didn’t find, the select treasures secreted away in that palace, and instead took with them the many items on public display in the Temple, located not far away.


It says in the Talmud that the famous Jewish sage and author of the Zohar, Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, went to Rome with his colleagues to nullify harsh decrees placed on Judea, and while there, saw the exact items mentioned in this article. They ended up being royal guests at Vespasian’s palace after being asked to attend to his ailing daughter. When they miraculously did heal her, the sages were afforded the chance to see these extremely holy items, proving that they were kept in that place.


The spiral stairs of the Vatican Museums, designed by Giuseppe Momo in 1932. (credit: Wikimedia Commons)

In fact, historian Josephus Flavius records the event in which Vespasian took for himself these items specifically as his special treasures for safekeeping, including an ancient Torah scroll.


According to Vatican expert Dr. Michael A. Calvo, those vessels and others found their way to the Vatican via another route, after making their way to Byzantium: “These include Temple candelabra given to Pope Innocent III by Baldwin I after the sacking of Constantinople and the massacre of the Christian Orthodox population,” Calvo claims. “Temple shofars and utensils; garments of the High Priest; the Tzitz – a gold plaque with the words Kodesh L’Hashem (“Holy to the Lord”); cultural objects, and many other objets d’art, books and manuscripts that the Vatican and other churches have appropriated and placed in their own storerooms, libraries and museums.”


But where is the factual, tangible proof that the Vatican “inherited” these sacred items and retains them until today?


The Israeli Foreign Affairs Ministry and security services may already have evidence: about 50 years ago, there was a certain Jewish student – let’s call him DM – who was enrolled in a correspondence course at the Urbaniana, the Vatican’s university. Upon attending in person for the last semesters of his doctorate, he found himself the only Jew among 17,000 students! DM told me that he was well-loved, but when push came to shove, both professor and student approached him respectfully in order to convert him.


After firmly refusing time after time, a friend of his (later to become one of the Vatican archivists, Cardinal Antonio Samore) offered to show him what “used to be” his Jewish heritage – the Temple vessels – in an attempt to entice him to convert. DM agreed to be taken to see them months later, at night. When I asked him if there was anything in that cave that had belonged to the Temple, he simply replied: “Everything is there!”


Did he really see anything, or just come close? Many years later, in 2002, DM apparently gave sufficient proof to then-foreign minister Shimon Peres and others who were in negotiation with high-level Vatican officials at the time. If this is true, Israel may already have a solid, well-documented case.


So now what? Today in the 21st century there is a thriving sovereign State of Israel, being the sole worldwide representative of the Jewish people, or the World Jewish Congress, both being adequate addresses to make an arrangement for some sort of repatriation deal.


In the meantime, Roman Catholic relations with Israel are on the rise, dialogue and cooperation with the Jewish state are close, and there are even several Jews who have been knighted by recent popes. So why not negotiate over whatever there is now?
The important part of this Article ^:
In fact, historian Josephus Flavius records the event in which Vespasian took for himself these items specifically as his special treasures for safekeeping, including an ancient Torah scroll.
 

Gardenias

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Oct 27, 2020
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Revelations 11: 19 tells all with a heart for God to understand where the Ark is!
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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All 12 Tribes had their own Torah and it's been passed down Generation to Generation.

And the one in the Ark of the Covenant is still hidden.

Plus the 70 A.D. one when the Temple was destroyed is in Rome.

As a member of a family of Sephardim Jews, we don't advertise this because it's our best kept secret from the world!
where is the Ark of the Covenant?
 
Dec 29, 2021
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The EXAMPLE of pride is refusing to be gracious and communicate as as reasonable and humble person rather than an I AM RIGHT grown adult!

We were not there in ancient times,we have what we have today by God's mercy, and it is STILL inspired and Holy Ghost breathed!
We believe in the God of ancient Times so we better be relevant about what we know.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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where is the Ark of the Covenant?
I said it is still hidden.

Although, Ron White claimed to find it located underneath where Christ was Crucified. But whether that is fact or not I don't know.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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we Believe in The God who is outside of Time, Space, and Matter.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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But Rome proves the 70 A.D. Torah that sat in the Temple for 1,000 years is still 100% in existence!
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Here is your theory:
Many have this theory, and there are many who believe differently, despite your claim that there is no room for differences of opinion on the matter, which you neatly encapsulate by insinuating anything other than something that agrees with your opinion is wrong.
amen we all have to get away from thinking we’re the authority and when someone doesn’t agree they are heretics
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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But Rome proves the 70 A.D. Torah that sat in the Temple for 1,000 years is still 100% in existence!
that was not the one Moses Got from God it was a COPY :)
 

Gardenias

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Oct 27, 2020
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We believe in the God of ancient Times so we better be relevant about what we know.



IM GONNA SHOUT AT YOU NOW,CAUSE YOU ARENT LISTENING!

I BELIEVE IN A CREATOR OF ALL INCLUDING TIME.

FUTHERMORE I KNOW WHAT THE WORD SAYS WITHOUT MANS INTERFERENCE.

DONT PRESUME TO KNOW ANYONE NOR WHAT THEY KNOW NOR THEIR STANDING IN GOD.


HEAR ME NOW?