The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Absolutely]

4413. prótos
Strong's Concordance
prótos: first, chief
Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Definition: first, chief
Usage: first, before, principal, most important.
HELPS Word-studies
4413 prṓtos (an adjective, derived from 4253 /pró, "before, forward") – first (foremost). 4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning "what comes first" (is "number one").

first, beginning, best, chief
Contracted superlative of pro; foremost (in time, place, order or importance) -- before, beginning, best, chief(-est), first (of all), former.

1. either in time or place, in any succession of things or of persons


Ever pondered on FIRST resurrection being THE BEST kind, OR MOST HOPED to achieve as opposed to specific day?

ALL the 'unsaved' nations who go through the 1000 years coming to the temple to worship,

were not a part of the first resurrection, so they had to have taken part in a first death.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that they 'remain' dead as in 'spiritually dead' until Satan is released and they either choose life or death? Have you considered these before, and if so what did you find?

Until you can accept 1 thes 4 alongside rev 14:14 you will never unpack anything of end times.

You are oblivious that 1 thes 4 has a resurrection. And that resurrection is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
PSSSST....It SAYS the dead PRECEDE those caught up alive.

So Rev 14s gathering, when incorporated IN YOUR THEORY, is impossible, because YOUR THEORY has the 1st resurrection AFTER the gathering of rev 14.

So nothing of your deal fits.

Rev 14 is like a nuclear bomb to ANYTHING BUT a pretrib rapture.

Game
Set
Match.

 

[Absolutely]

ANYTHING? So far not one thing, at least NOT WITH THE WORDS OF GOD. I hear APOSTASY say it, but NEVER GOD.




1. Did the LORD command the Lord to sit at His right hand until all enemies are made his footstool?

2. Is Satan HIS enemy?

3. Is Satan made His Footstool previous to the end of the war in heaven, Woe to the earth prophecy?


My Answers
1. YES, THE LORD COMMANDED THE LORD TO SIT....UNTIL SATAN AT HIS FEET - CRYSTAL CLEAR, DIRECT, EASY TO UNDERSTAND

2. YES, SATAN IS THE ENEMY The very first prophecy

3. NO, SATAN AND HIS ANGELS ONLY REIGN ON EARTH FOR ONE HOUR, beginning with DEADLY WOUND HEALED, THE IMAGE set up, up until he stands where he ought not, kills the two witnesses and then after they rise up, the earthquake and with the BRIGHTNESS of CHRISTS coming Satan is destroyed, bound and sealed in pit for 1000 years. The alive and remaining are changed to rule and reign with CHRIST until Satan loosed for a short season, when fire comes from heaven, then GWTJ, NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.

What are INDIVIDUAL CHRISTIANS (in the messages to the churches) COMMANDED to do in the book of Revelation?
Is there a 'time' element given?
Are there examples given?

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him My new name.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne.


The Apostasy stance IS OVERLOOK, NOT OVERCOME. This time the excuse is 'they are currently OVERCOMING' and 'being persecuted' RELEASING THEMSELVES from what is written to the churches. Nothing will get in the way of them PROCLAIMING THEMSELVES SAVED and being taken to heaven as the BRIDE OF CHRIST for their wedding before death and judgment and yet another point CONTRARY TO WHAT IS WRITTEN, by taking place before becoming the 'perfect man',

BUT WHAT IS WRITTEN, WHAT IS OVERLOOKED?

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Revelation 6:2
AND I LOOKED AND BEHOLD A HORSE WHITE AND THE [ONE] SITTING ON IT HAVING A BOW AND WAS GIVEN TO HIM A CROWN AND HE WENT FORTH OVERCOMING AND THAT HE MIGHT CONQUER

5115 toxon
a bow.
From the base of tikto; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric) -- bow.

3528 nikao
to conquer, prevail, overcome, subdue
3528 nikáō(from 3529 /níkē, "victory") – properly, conquer (overcome); " 'to carry off the victory, come off victorious.' The verb implies a battle"


THE VERY FIRST SEAL OPENED TELLS US OF A RIDER WHO HAS A CHEAP SIMPLE BOW THAT HAS TO BE GIVEN A CROWN WHO IS SENT FORTH TO OVERCOME.

EVERY CHRISTIAN IS TOLD TO OVERCOME. AND EVERY CHRISTIAN IS TOLD WHAT IS BEING SENT that needs to be OVERCOME.

THE MESSAGE OF THE FIRST SEAL IS THERE IS A FAKE BEING SENT. REV 6:2

CHRISTS FIRST WARNING? DO NOT BE DECEIVED. MATT 24:

CHRIST RETURN? AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN. 2 THESS 2

CHRIST THE RIGHT HAND UNTIL? AFTER ENEMIES UNDER FOOT

THE ENEMY? THE ONE WHO BRUISED HIS HEEL GEN 3:15

WHEN IS THE ACCUSER CAST OUT? MID TRIB

IS IT WRITTEN? YES



WHAT ELSE IS INTERESTING
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:


OF COURSE, NOT EVEN THE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR ARE EXPECTING A 'CHURCH' RAPTURE AS THEY ARE WAITING UNTIL THE SEASON ENDS AND THEIR BRETHREN TO BE KILLED AND JUDGMENT TO COME UPON THE EARTH.

AGAIN, JUST AS IN EVERY OTHER SINGLE POSSIBLE TIME AND PLACE, NO MENTION OF ANY 'GET OUT OF TRIB FREE' GROUP ANYWHERE.

Uh ,sorry, but Jesus left heaven and stood before John at Patmos.

He also left heaven before satan was destroyed to go and destroy satan at armageddon.

You have no standing at all in that footstool deal.

 

[Absolutely]

FROM BEGINNING TO END GOD HAS GIVEN US EXAMPLES OF BATTLES

WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE

THAT GODS PLAN

FOR THE FINAL BATTLE OF THE AGE

HE WOULD remove all HIS SOLDIERS and leave it mostly 'ONE SIDED'?


Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and He in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

3 LORD, what is man, that thou takest knowledge of him! or the son of man, that thou makest account of him!

4 Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away.

5 Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.

6 Cast forth lightning, and scatter them: shoot out thine arrows, and destroy them.

7 Send thine hand from above; rid me, and deliver me out of great waters, from the hand of strange children;

8 Whose mouth speaketh vanity, AND THEIR RIGHT HAND IF THE RIGHT HAND OF FALSEHOOD

9 I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.

10 It is he that giveth salvation unto kings: who delivereth David his servant from the hurtful sword.

11 Rid me, and deliver me from the hand of strange children, whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand is a right hand of falsehood:

12 That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; that our daughters may be as corner stones, polished after the similitude of a palace:

13 That our garners may be full, affording all manner of store: that our sheep may bring forth thousands and ten thousands in our streets:

14 That our oxen may be strong to labour; that there be no breaking in, nor going out; that there be no complaining in our streets.

15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the LORD.

The first resurrection alongside rev 14 destroys all your theory.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Until you can accept 1 thes 4 alongside rev 14:14 you will never unpack anything of end times.

You are oblivious that 1 thes 4 has a resurrection. And that resurrection is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
PSSSST....It SAYS the dead PRECEDE those caught up alive.

So Rev 14s gathering, when incorporated IN YOUR THEORY, is impossible, because YOUR THEORY has the 1st resurrection AFTER the gathering of rev 14.

So nothing of your deal fits.

This is what the Bible says about God's plan for end times.

1. There is ONE resurrection for the saved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, 1 Cor 15:23, Acts 24:15
2. ALL believers from all time will participate in that ONE resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23
3. The ONE resurrection of all believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent. 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:5

That is my starting point. It's biblical all the way. If someone's "details" don't fit this pattern, it is THEY who have a problem, not me.

These are verses that clearly say what the points say.

Until the overall pattern is understood and believed, there is NO WAY a believer can understand anything about the end times.

Rev 14 is like a nuclear bomb to ANYTHING BUT a pretrib rapture.

In fact, not. The 3 points above totally refute your claims.

And you haven't even tried to explain any of the verses to show that they are saying something else.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Uh ,sorry, but Jesus left heaven and stood before John at Patmos.

He also left heaven before satan was destroyed to go and destroy satan at armageddon.

You have no standing at all in that footstool deal.

All immaterial. He also appeared to Paul on a dusty road to Damascus.

Were any of these kind of trips prophesied? No, they were not.

Regarding what the Bible prophesies regarding Jesus coming to earth, there are 2 prophecies.

1. First Advent: Jesus came as a baby and was the Suffering Servant, which is all over the OT.
2. Second Advent: Jesus will come again as King of kings and Lord of lords, with "the armies of heaven".

So, the phrase "when He comes" in 1 Cor 15:23 is a reference to the Second Advent. As is 2 Thess 2:1.

You are the one will not standing at all.

You keep claiming that Jesus raptures believers before the Trib and takes them to heaven.

So quote a verse on that, if you can.

But you know you can't, and you won't even admit it. So why in the world would you still believe it?

Again, this is the truth:
1. There is ONE resurrection for the saved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, 1 Cor 15:23, Acts 24:15
2. ALL believers from all time will participate in that ONE resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23
3. The ONE resurrection of all believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent. 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:5

 

[FreeGrace2]

The first resurrection alongside rev 14 destroys all your theory.

Ok, let's take a look at God's plan for the end times.

1. There is ONE resurrection for the saved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, 1 Cor 15:23, Acts 24:15
2. ALL believers from all time will participate in that ONE resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23
3. The ONE resurrection of all believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent. 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:5

These 3 points destroys ALL theories that are not in alignment with the Bible.

If you disagree (and I know you do), then address each of these verses and show how they say something other than what the points say.

 

[Absolutely]

FROM BEGINNING TO END GOD HAS GIVEN US EXAMPLES OF BATTLES

WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE

THAT GODS PLAN

FOR THE FINAL BATTLE OF THE AGE

HE WOULD remove all HIS SOLDIERS and leave it mostly 'ONE SIDED'?


Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and He in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

3 LORD, what is man, that thou takest knowledge of him! or the son of man, that thou makest account of him!

4 Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away.

5 Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.

6 Cast forth lightning, and scatter them: shoot out thine arrows, and destroy them.

7 Send thine hand from above; rid me, and deliver me out of great waters, from the hand of strange children;

8 Whose mouth speaketh vanity, AND THEIR RIGHT HAND IF THE RIGHT HAND OF FALSEHOOD

9 I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.

10 It is he that giveth salvation unto kings: who delivereth David his servant from the hurtful sword.

11 Rid me, and deliver me from the hand of strange children, whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand is a right hand of falsehood:

12 That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; that our daughters may be as corner stones, polished after the similitude of a palace:

13 That our garners may be full, affording all manner of store: that our sheep may bring forth thousands and ten thousands in our streets:

14 That our oxen may be strong to labour; that there be no breaking in, nor going out; that there be no complaining in our streets.

15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the LORD.

Factor in The first resurrection of 1 thes 4 , alongside rev 14

 

[Absolutely]

Ok, let's take a look at God's plan for the end times.

1. There is ONE resurrection for the saved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, 1 Cor 15:23, Acts 24:15
2. ALL believers from all time will participate in that ONE resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23
3. The ONE resurrection of all believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent. 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:5

These 3 points destroys ALL theories that are not in alignment with the Bible.

If you disagree (and I know you do), then address each of these verses and show how they say something other than what the points say.

So you are basically saying the 1st resurrection of 1st thes 4, is AFTER the gathering of rev 14.?

 

[Absolutely]

This is what the Bible says about God's plan for end times.

1. There is ONE resurrection for the saved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, 1 Cor 15:23, Acts 24:15
2. ALL believers from all time will participate in that ONE resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23
3. The ONE resurrection of all believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent. 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:5

That is my starting point. It's biblical all the way. If someone's "details" don't fit this pattern, it is THEY who have a problem, not me.

These are verses that clearly say what the points say.

Until the overall pattern is understood and believed, there is NO WAY a believer can understand anything about the end times.


In fact, not. The 3 points above totally refute your claims.

And you haven't even tried to explain any of the verses to show that they are saying something else.

"""In fact, not. The 3 points above totally refute your claims"""

Rev 14 makes the claim.
I read it, then factor it in.

You can not accept it so you pretend it is not there.
Look at your last post.
Nothing there erases rev 14.

We can all see the dodge.

 

[Absolutely]

Until you can accept 1 thes 4 alongside rev 14:14 you will never unpack anything of end times.

You are oblivious that 1 thes 4 has a resurrection. And that resurrection is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
PSSSST....It SAYS the dead PRECEDE those caught up alive.

So Rev 14s gathering, when incorporated IN YOUR THEORY, is impossible, because YOUR THEORY has the 1st resurrection AFTER the gathering of rev 14.

So nothing of your deal fits.

Rev 14 is like a nuclear bomb to ANYTHING BUT a pretrib rapture.

Game
Set
Match.

^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

 

[Beckie]

I had to back track and read my post to see what you were saying.

That happens a lot in forums. We will disagree on our acceptance/understanding of mans freewill.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

5286. hupopodion
Strong's Concordance
hupopodion: a footstool
Original Word: ὑποπόδιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter

Transliteration: hupopodion
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-op-od'-ee-on)
Definition: a footstool
Usage: a footstool.

HELPS Word-studies
5286 hypopódion (literally, "under the feet") – properly, a footstool; (figuratively) "5286 (hypopódion) is a footstool used by a conquering king, to place his foot on the neck of the conquered" (Souter) – i.e. those under his total dominion.

Don't forget the "hypo podas [G5259 G4228]" of Romans 16:20 - "... shall crush Satan UNDER YOUR FEET IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"; using the SAME "TIME-PERIOD" phrasing that Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c [/ 7:3(who are on the earth)] refers to when speaking of the "future" aspects of the Book, aka the "7 year period" leading UP TO Christ "RETURN" to the earth Rev19)

-- https://biblehub.com/text/romans/16-20.htm







[and note again what the 24 elders SAY in Rev5:9 ("hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY"), what is said OF them in v.10, and which corresponds with what is said in Rev1:5-6 ("hath made us kings [or, a kingdom] and priests unto God and his Father...")... with 5:9 showing them saying this UP IN Heaven *before* the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (aka when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" by His opening the FIRST SEAL at the START of those "7 years" [yet future])]

 

[Absolutely]

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


REV 14 TAKES PLACE ON EARTH
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


59. agorazó
Strong's Concordance
agorazó: to buy in the marketplace, purchase
Original Word: ἀγοράζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: agorazó
Phonetic Spelling: (ag-or-ad'-zo)
Definition: to buy in the marketplace, purchase
Usage: I buy.
HELPS Word-studies
59 agorázō (from 58 /agorá, "the ancient marketplace, town-center") – properly, to make purchases in the marketplace ("agora"), i.e. as ownership transfers from seller to buyer.

59 /agorázō ("acquire by purchasing") stresses transfer – i.e. where something becomes another's belonging (possession). In salvation-contexts, 59 (agorázō) is not redeeming ("buying back"), but rather focuses on how the believer now belongs to the Lord as His unique possession (J. Thayer). Indeed, Christ purchases all the privileges and responsibilities that go with belonging to Him (being in Christ).





Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


IS IT A CASUAL THING FOR CHRIST, WHO MAKES INTERCESSION FOR US, TO LEAVE THAT PLACE BEFORE HIS TIME?
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation (NO) or distress (NO) or persecution (NO) or famine (NO) or nakedness (NO) or peril (NO) or sword (NO)?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

if we HAVE ALREADY BEEN ACCOUNTED AS SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER, THEN HOW AND WHY THE PRE TRIB?


37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.

if we ARE ALREAD MORE THAN CONQUERORS, THEN WHY THE PRE TRIB AT ALL?

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

if 'things to come' have already been taken into account, THEN HOW IS THE PRE TRIB EVEN POSSIBLE?

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

AGAIN, THE PRE TRIB CAUSES US TO CALL INTO QUESTION ALL THINGS LIKE THIS. NOTHING CAN BE AS IT IS WRITTEN IF PRE TRIB WERE TRUE BECAUSE WHAT LOOKS AND READS TO BE ONE THING MAY NOT BE THAT THING AT ALL.

"""REV 14 TAKES PLACE ON EARTH
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb"""

ONCE AGAIN ,SMH, you OMIT, then high five yourself as if you succesfully teframed what you COULD HAVE kept in context

But no, you NEED those components OMITTED.

NOTE THE NEW MEANING;
"a new song before the throne, and before the four living beings and the elders; and no man could learn that song,

Pssst...singing a new Song in heaven PRESENT TENSE = NOW.
........"who were redeemed from the earth."
Psssst....PAST TENSE..."WERE"

"5 And in their mouth was found no guile, for they are without fault before the throne of God."
"ARE"....= "NOW".

IT IS THERE FOR ANYONE, WHO CARES, TO SEE THEY ARE IN HEAVEN

 

[Absolutely]

2Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, WHOSE COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Everybody believes that.
Do you?

You are admitting Jesus leaves his throne BEFORE satan is crushed.

We can all see that

 

[Absolutely]

Where does this go?


Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose


53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


and the tombs were opened and many bodies of the having fallen asleep saints arose




2837. koimaó from NG2749 ►
Strong's Concordance
koimaó from NG2749: sleep, fall asleep, die
Original Word: κοιμάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: koimaó from NG2749
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-mah'-o)
Definition: sleep, fall asleep, die
Usage: I fall asleep, am asleep, sometimes of the sleep of death.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2837: κοιμάω

κοιμάω, κοίμω: passive, present κοιμάομαι. κοιμωμαι; perfect κεκοίμημαι (cf. Winer's Grammar, 274 (257)); 1 aorist ἐκοιμήθην; 1 future κοιμηθήσομαι; (akin to κεῖμαι; Curtius, § 45); to cause to sleep, put to sleep (Homer, et al.); metaphorically, to still, calm, quiet, (Homer, Aeschylus, Plato); passive to sleep, fall asleep: properly, Matthew 28:13; Luke 22:45; John 11:12; Acts 12:6; the Sept. for שָׁכַב. metaphorically, and euphemistically equivalent to to die (cf. English to fall asleep): John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 11:30; 1 Corinthians 15:6, 51 (cf. Winers Grammar, 555 (517); Buttmann, 121 (106) note); 2 Peter 3:4; οἱ κοιμώμενοι, κεκοιμημένοι, κοιμηθέντες, equivalent to the dead: Matthew 27:52; 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; with ἐν Χριστῷ added (see ἐν, I. 6 b., p. 211b), 1 Corinthians 15:18; in the same sense Isaiah 14:8; Isaiah 43:17; 1 Kings 11:43; 2 Macc. 12:45; Homer, Iliad 11, 241; Sophocles Electr. 509.


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
sleep, fall asleep, die
From keimai; to put to sleep, i.e. (passively or reflexively) to slumber; figuratively, to decease -- (be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep, be dead.





1453. egeiró ►
Strong's Concordance
egeiró: to waken, to raise up
Original Word: ἐγείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: egeiró
Phonetic Spelling: (eg-i'-ro)
Definition: to waken, to raise up
Usage: (a) I wake, arouse, (b) I raise up.


awake, lift up, raise up
Probably akin to the base of agora (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. Rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence) -- awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.

Ahhhh
The firstfruits
First stage
Of the first resurrection.

Good point.

 

[Absolutely]

There is the perspective that the (vision of) 144k are succinct but only a segment of the redeemed of the earth (virgin; among men: virgin men) where I read the succinctness as the complete, i.e. full square, none missing; pure (virgin as in olive oil) bride of Christ, no one excluded, not even those of Judah (that believe in Him, of course).

no
They are a segment as the word of God vividly portrays.

They remain a segment in every verse they are mentioned.

The bride is gentile as depicted in Ruth

 

[Absolutely]

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


REV 14 TAKES PLACE ON EARTH
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


59. agorazó
Strong's Concordance
agorazó: to buy in the marketplace, purchase
Original Word: ἀγοράζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: agorazó
Phonetic Spelling: (ag-or-ad'-zo)
Definition: to buy in the marketplace, purchase
Usage: I buy.
HELPS Word-studies
59 agorázō (from 58 /agorá, "the ancient marketplace, town-center") – properly, to make purchases in the marketplace ("agora"), i.e. as ownership transfers from seller to buyer.

59 /agorázō ("acquire by purchasing") stresses transfer – i.e. where something becomes another's belonging (possession). In salvation-contexts, 59 (agorázō) is not redeeming ("buying back"), but rather focuses on how the believer now belongs to the Lord as His unique possession (J. Thayer). Indeed, Christ purchases all the privileges and responsibilities that go with belonging to Him (being in Christ).





Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


IS IT A CASUAL THING FOR CHRIST, WHO MAKES INTERCESSION FOR US, TO LEAVE THAT PLACE BEFORE HIS TIME?
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation (NO) or distress (NO) or persecution (NO) or famine (NO) or nakedness (NO) or peril (NO) or sword (NO)?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

if we HAVE ALREADY BEEN ACCOUNTED AS SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER, THEN HOW AND WHY THE PRE TRIB?


37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.

if we ARE ALREAD MORE THAN CONQUERORS, THEN WHY THE PRE TRIB AT ALL?

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

if 'things to come' have already been taken into account, THEN HOW IS THE PRE TRIB EVEN POSSIBLE?

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

AGAIN, THE PRE TRIB CAUSES US TO CALL INTO QUESTION ALL THINGS LIKE THIS. NOTHING CAN BE AS IT IS WRITTEN IF PRE TRIB WERE TRUE BECAUSE WHAT LOOKS AND READS TO BE ONE THING MAY NOT BE THAT THING AT ALL.

....and since the one who wrote romans did not go through anything close to the great tribulation, he must be assigned a lowly place with us pretribbers, as will you, should you pass away without being an "overcomer" ,as you erroneously portray "overcomer", exclusively to some imagined saints running from cave to cave, being chased by the ac bogey man wielding an axe.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

59. agorazó
Strong's Concordance
agorazó: to buy in the marketplace, purchase
Original Word: ἀγοράζω
Part of Speech: Verb

Transliteration: agorazó
Phonetic Spelling: (ag-or-ad'-zo)
Definition: to buy in the marketplace, purchase
Usage: I buy.

HELPS Word-studies
59 agorázō (from 58 /agorá, "the ancient marketplace, town-center") – properly, to make purchases in the marketplace ("agora"), i.e. as ownership transfers from seller to buyer.

59 /agorázō ("acquire by purchasing") stresses transfer – i.e. where something becomes another's belonging (possession). In salvation-contexts, 59 (agorázō) is not redeeming ("buying back"), but rather focuses on how the believer now belongs to the Lord as His unique possession (J. Thayer). Indeed, Christ purchases all the privileges and responsibilities that go with belonging to Him (being in Christ).[/QUOTE]

I just (again) pointed out what the 24 elders say in Rev5:9... and they use this same ^ word ("hast REDEEMED *US*... out-of EVERY..."); but in THIS scene, they actually ARE shown UP IN Heaven *before* Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" by His opening the FIRST SEAL at the START of the "7 year period" (aka the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period that 1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c refers to when it speaks of the "future" aspects of the Book)

[...]
IS IT A CASUAL THING FOR CHRIST, WHO MAKES INTERCESSION FOR US, TO LEAVE THAT PLACE BEFORE HIS TIME?
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Acts 3:21 -

"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."

[things promised and prophesied by means of the OT prophets... INCLUDING the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (but note: the "TIMES" of RESTORATION OF... starts even before that point in the chronology)]

 

[Absolutely]

2198. zaó

Strong's Concordance​

zaó: to live

Original Word: ζάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: zaó
Phonetic Spelling: (dzah'-o)
Definition: to live
Usage: I live, am alive.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2198 záō – to live, experience God's gift of life. See 2222 (zōē).​

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


I am going with Becky on the resurrection being from dead to alive SPIRITUALLY, not just physically.

It is just saying they went on into the millennium.
Kinda like " they lived happily ever after"
Lol

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Actually, I don't give much thought to all these details, as if they really prove anything. Because the Bible describes events from different perspectives, and doesn't provide ALL the details in ALL the passages.

What I focus on is the overall plan that is very clear in the Bible.

The focus of my post had been on this:

[TDW] "And that Rev11:17 is speaking of something EVEN BEFORE the "7th Trumpet" point in time? (which then would agree with what I'd stated about 19:6)"


...both of these verses using the same word (under discussion)... but which you are saying only commences at the Rev19 time-slot.

I disagree, for reasons I stated in that post (esp. re. the "PERFECT indicative" of the preceding verb in 11:17 and how THAT impacts the rest of the verbs in that sentence, though being "aorist," would prove them to be [starting at some point in] "past" because of the first verb being "PERFECT indicative" and the Greek grammars saying that the verbs which follow on in the sentence would then jive with that verb / verb tense).




But, let me just say, what you wrote above sounds very similar to the dismissive point [new member] "Beckie" wrote about her not seeing the sequence between the resurrection of LIFE and the resurrection of DAMNATION [/JUDGMENT] being SEPARATED BY the 1000 YEARS. (which you agree there is this spans of time BETWEEN them... why? because you've actually looked at the chronology issues pertaining... but which you seem unwilling to do with this word "reign" in Rev19:6 / 11:17 Oh well...)