Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[reneweddaybyday]

Looks like the same (word to me - komos) for all.

1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
3. the world, the universe
4. the circle of the earth, the earth
5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
   1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
   1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)

right ... so when you insist that "world" (Gr. kosmos) in 1 John 2:2 means

"7. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ"​

when in all actuality, the word "world" (Gr. kosmos) in 1 John 2:2 means

"5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family"​

you are in error.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
No, I point out that calvinism isn't biblical. And I have proved it. What's your excuse?

You make evident you reject the truth and scoff it.

I reject calvinism, which is not the truth.

 

[rogerg]

you are in error.

Don't think so. You are. We're done.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you prove from the Bible that election is to salvation? Or that salvation is unconditional, meaning that man does NOTHING to be saved?

OK, I will take your response as "no I can't prove from the Bible that election is to salvation".

1 Peter 1: 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God, the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

This is one of the verses that PROVE that election is to service, not salvation.

"Elect...unto obedience". That's service, not salvation. All believers are elected to service, which is obedience.

Eph 1:4 - "God chose us in Him...to be holy and blameless". Again, service.

The word "us" is clearly defined in v.19 - and his incomparably great power for us who believe.

So, the "us" in v.4 is the SAME "us" as in v.19. So 1:4 says that God chose believers...to be holy and blameless.

Elect means chosen before you are even born, and humanity's time line is a rerun for God, the Father. As God, He is able to manipulate events for His pleasure and as evidence to all created beings in heaven and on earth of His justice and mercy and power and love.

To simplify, God has chosen believers for service.

1 Cor 1-
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

Red words are what God chooses. Blue words are the purpose for what God chooses.

This is real clear about election being to service.

1 Cor 1: 26-31 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called; But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not , to bring to nothing things that are, THAT NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE. But of (by) Him are ye in Christ Jesus,who of (by) God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption; That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
God chooses those that are called. His choice is not based on wisdom ( worldly), strength or might, status ( worldly or religious), or wealth. Paul is talking to lowly people and telling them that they are examples of the kind of people that God chooses. Those that are not chosen miss the boat completely because they want to take credit for their salvation whether it be because they walked the aisle or said a prayer or got baptized with water or attend church regularly or trusted in Jesus or try to be good enough. You might be doing all those things, but it is the Father who has changed you ( John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.) and it is He that you should give glory and praise to as well as to Christ who is our God, Lord and Savior.

Yep. There is nothing in this passage about God choosing anyone for savlation.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

One could say that God chooses to save those who believe.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Don't think so. You are. We're done.

really? you really believe that 1 John 2:2 refers to

"7. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ"​

read the verse again, rogerg:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world


You believe "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers to the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ???


I believe "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 refers to "the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family".

 

[rogerg]

read the verse again, rogerg:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world

Yeah, the propitiation for the sin of those who are to inhabit the world to come: the elect - not for this current world. You have the worlds mixed up.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

the propitiation for the sin of those who are to inhabit the world to come

you believe there will be sin in the world to come???

 

[brightfame52]

FreeGrace2 said:
No, I point out that calvinism isn't biblical. And I have proved it. What's your excuse?

I reject calvinism, which is not the truth.

You reject truth in the guise of scoffing it and calling it calvinism. A lot of people do it, you not alone.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You reject truth in the guise of scoffing it and calling it calvinism. A lot of people do it, you not alone.

A lot of people KNOW that calvinism has many errors in it, as I've already shown

Why haven't you even tried to address my points to show me my error, if in fact I am in error?

Truth ALWAYS has an anwer to false teaching. You haven't defended a thing. You just keep playing your broken record.

The FACT that you haven't defended calvinism with evidence demonstrates that you can't.

Go back to my post on TULIP and refute any point you'd like, if you can.

iow, put your money where your mouth is.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Are you avoiding/refusing to answer my question? It is a simple one and one that demands a yes or no answer. Once again, are you saying that those who are unable to hear and to come to faith in Christ throughout their lives for whatever reason (infirmity, age, not hearing the Gospel, etc) will not be saved? So, with just a yes or no - yes = they are saved, no = they're not saved, which is it?
Your answer is central to your argument

I don’t say who will or won’t be saved. I show what the scripture teaches, not my opinion.

Let’s stick to what the scriptures teach and not refer to our opinion.


That being said, please show me the scripture you are referring to, whereby someone who couldn’t hear were unable to come to faith.





JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

He definitely is but
that is not the question. The question is: which world? This current one or the one to come?
It can't be this world because He will destroy it. Did you actually read the verses I provided in an earlier post proving this?
The following is another one.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Are you saying the world in this verse refers to people who are saved?




JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

Yes in 1 Jn 2:2 its the elect only !

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Where is the elect mentioned in this verse?



Do you believe the world in this verse refers to people who are saved?






JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

When you are chosen by the Father, He makes you aware of your sins and grants you the repentance necessary for you to turn to God for forgiveness and strength to overcome.

Here is a quote from God the Father concerning this —



He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

• He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

• But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

JLB

 

[rogerg]

you believe there will be sin in the world to come???

No because He as the propitiation removed any possibility of sin from entering into it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

you believe there will be sin in the world to come???

No because He as the propitiation removed any possibility of sin from entering into it.

right ... and the propitiation takes place on this earth ...

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world


and "the whole world" means "the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family".

 

[fredoheaven]

A lot of people KNOW that calvinism has many errors in it, as I've already shown

Why haven't you even tried to address my points to show me my error, if in fact I am in error?

Truth ALWAYS has an anwer to false teaching. You haven't defended a thing. You just keep playing your broken record.

The FACT that you haven't defended calvinism with evidence demonstrates that you can't.

Go back to my post on TULIP and refute any point you'd like, if you can.

iow, put your money where your mouth is.

Yes, you nailed it sir!

 

[rogerg]

I don’t say who will or won’t be saved. I show what the scripture teaches, not my opinion.

I am not asking who individually will or won't be saved, I'm asking you to explain the criteria you believe salvation is based upon,
including how the infirmed will be judged.
Are you are saying that someone can spend an eternity under God's wrath, and yet, you are unable to explain from the Bible the criteria that it is based upon? How can you then place your faith upon something you don't understand and teach others to believe in? Really? At minimum I would suggest you cease and desist from the further teaching of a doctrine that you don't understand and can't verbalize or justify. Don't you think you do a disservice to others by continuing to teach it?

Let’s stick to what the scriptures teach and not refer to our opinion.

Not (my) opinion

That being said, please show me the scripture you are referring to, whereby someone who couldn’t hear were unable to come to faith.

By your comment above you're reversing our positions. I am the one who is saying that EVERYTHING associated to, or is as a result of salvation (including hearing and faith) is solely the gift of God - that we can do nothing of ourselves to obtain it. What you've stated above is not my belief it is yours. Your position is that an unsaved person hears the Gospel, and from/by that, is saved solely based upon their own wherewithal. Again, I believe exactly the reverse: that becoming saved is completely a gift.
So, once again, my question to you: if people are saved on the basis you've stated, how can those who are unable (for whatever reason) to hear, understand the Gospel etc., be saved?
If I've misstated your position, please let me know.

 

[rogerg]

right ... and the propitiation takes place on this earth ...

No in heaven, with Christ Himself being the propitiation. Were it otherwise, then when the earth ends the propitiation would also end.

[Heb 9:23-24 KJV]
23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No in heaven

i will rephrase ...

the propitiation takes place for the sin of the inhabitants of this earth ...​

there will be no sin in new heaven/new earth.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world


"the whole world" means "the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family".


"the whole world" does not refer to "the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ".

 

[Nehemiah6]

The FACT that you haven't defended calvinism with evidence demonstrates that you can't.

True. Calvinism is INDEFENSIBLE. The reason being that John Calvin -- its architect -- knew Gospel truth as revealed in Scripture, then turned it on is head to manufacture a false gospel.