TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[Wansvic]

Unfortunately, this seems to be rather common in times I've asked for examples of what people consider legitimate tongues speech and that which is perceived as not legitimate. With all due respect to those concerned, it seems a bit odd to me that for so many people who have such a strong belief in "tongues", that there seems to be a great deal of reluctance to provide example(s) of what they perceive as a legitimate; particularly if said example is going to be studied and analyzed.

"...studied and analyzed." I just have to say that is a very sad statement. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6

 

[Godsgirl83]

The clip could even be of yourself speaking – doesn’t have to be long, maybe a minute or two.

I don't think that's going to happen.

You see, most people who truly have this gift don't go throwing it in others faces to prove a point, that's not how the Holy Spirit operates, and everyone I know who has this gift values and treasures it (like precious pearls)

Matthew 7:6 comes to mind here:

NIV
“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

NLT
“Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.

 

[CS1]

Many here have stated Bible Acts 1:8 Jesus speaking John chapter 14 & 15 Jesus speaking. 1Cor chapter 12 through 14 authoritative words of God. Those who pose the gifts of the Holy Spirit for today do so by going outside the word of God period.

They attack all based on the foolishness of a few. Some even interject pagan practices to discredit the word of God or those using the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That did not work so now we got to accept understand the explanation of the neurological structure and explanation from linguists? LOL Love it. I thank God for HIS Holy Spirit and the empowerment to be HIS witnesses. Saved by Grace through faith, not of works. I have asked those who continue to attack the gifts for today one question most will not even answer.

What did Jesus mean in Acts 1:8 and what do signs and wonders do then that you think doesn't happen today?

Not one has answered.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Let me help out a little if I can; perhaps this will elicit some kind of a response.

Those who say there are fake tongues and true tongues:

1. Is the fake variety the use of tongues in an un-Biblical way? For example, more than two or three all speaking at once; speaking in tongues with no interpreter present, etc.

2. Or is it something specific about the spoken sounds? That is, the sounds coming out of one person's mouth are genuine while another's aren't.

 

[CS1]

these two qestion are very interesting but were formulated from a presupposition :

1. Is the fake variety the use of tongues in an un-Biblical way? For example, more than two or three all speaking at once; speaking in tongues with no interpreter present, etc.

it is not unbiblical for two or three to speak in tongues without interpretation. That is not true. That is a false narrative the word of God says in 1cor chapter 14:13

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
LET them SPEAK!!!!

2. Or is it something specific about the spoken sounds? That is, the sounds coming out of one person's mouth are genuine while another's aren't.

No argument with this point.

 

[shittim]

I don't think that's going to happen.

You see, most people who truly have this gift don't go throwing it in others faces to prove a point, that's not how the Holy Spirit operates, and everyone I know who has this gift values and treasures it (like precious pearls)

Matthew 7:6 comes to mind here:

NIV
“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

NLT
“Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.

Heard a teaching on this where a speaker was asked about his relationship with Holy Spirit, his response was, "that is personal and none of your business".

 

[Blain]

Heard a teaching on this where a speaker was asked about his relationship with Holy Spirit, his response was, "that is personal and none of your business".

Yeah I laughed when I heard that

 

[Blain]

Let me help out a little if I can; perhaps this will elicit some kind of a response.

Those who say there are fake tongues and true tongues:

1. Is the fake variety the use of tongues in an un-Biblical way? For example, more than two or three all speaking at once; speaking in tongues with no interpreter present, etc.

2. Or is it something specific about the spoken sounds? That is, the sounds coming out of one person's mouth are genuine while another's aren't.

Anyone can learn a language and learn how to pronounce the words and syllables but the spirit behind the words cannot be mimicked
As far as whether two or more are required to be there and an interpreter being required I think if it is for the edification of others yes but if it is a private conversation between you and God no

 

[shittim]

To #507-

It speaks to me of how our relationship with the Father in Jesus is to be honored.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Let me just state for the record: when I said "For example, more than two or three all speaking at once" I said it off the cuff. Technically that's not what the scripture says—my bad. I just assumed people would have enough sense to know what I meant.

Now that that's out of the way, maybe we can get to the real point: the questions I posed.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Anyone can learn a language and learn how to pronounce the words and syllables but the spirit behind the words cannot be mimicked

So the sounds are the same, only one is infused with the Spirt and another isn't.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

That's a rather fanciful remark. I'm not attempting to disprove anything. I completely believe that the Holy Spirit bestows gifts as it will.

It's more a linguistic exercise than anything.

No worries - more for my own edification. I'm just really curious to hear an example of what people deem as legitimate tongues-speech.

So @Kavik here is a video of the famed Rodney Howard Brown and Kenneth Copeland speaking in tongues. The discourse would of course fail the acid test for grammatical plausibility - buts let's pretend it is a real heavenly language for the purpose of your claims. I can't think anyone will be too disappointed if you certify it as a deception and as a babble of noise.

From my own point of view, put simply, the video is a clear deception despite any ability or not of knowing that the language is a fraud - and the Scripture would define that very easily. Not least because these two men are neither speaking to God and neither are they interpreting what they are saying to one another. Yet they clearly intend that those who were observing this very sad event in the audience - back in the day - were clearly both amused and impressed. No interpretation and no direction to God - you would think that they would have been more inclined to speak prophetically - at least that could have been more easily tested. But alas they did what they did because they were establishing a false relationship in which Keneth Copeland had to establish that he was the greater between these two men - but both men were great to the church.

I saw the original video back in the 80's and knew then that this presentation was more demonic than many believers are comfortable with my saying - but in any case the exchange ends with Keneth Copeland striking Rodney Howard Brown in the stomach and Brown bowing down to Copeland. That is not in this clip - but it is in the original clip.

Anyways the more interesting part of this short clip is much more real and comes after the two men - where my reference to the acquisition of first language is demonstrated - and hence why the narrator uses the term linguistics in his opening comments. That at least you should connect with. But I still would like you to uphold your claim to myself that there is a universal language trait that can be detected in all languages that have meaning. Start by demonstrating that from this exchange between two grown men and why two sweet babies proves that neurological reality of language. And if you won't acknowledge your own claims then neither will I post the linguistic sample of plausible language structure that is nevertheless just as false as the tongues spoken by two grown men in the video.

 

[Gardenias]

Everybody wants something from God.
The devil wants everything so he deceives multitudes of people bc he doesn't have access to the real parts of God!

Back in the late 70' s early 80's is when I began to notice that church goers wanted to be like the world but still have from God.
Jesus plainly speaks that this is an impossibility,so we have people of the world who have created inventive ways to pretend that they have from God!

It did start with people being taught how to speak in tounges but bc people don't study they lack knowledge and lack of knowledge leads to deception and an easy way.

Whereby do the gifts come? The Holy Spirit is God as the father and son,we can't procure his characteristics. Simon the sorcerer made this mistake. The outpouring in Acts after Jesus breathed on them and told them to wait for the Holy Ghost power was not fake but the next phase of God's work to spread the gospel of salvation.

He edifies the person and the body of Christ with his gifts. They come from him through people that have paid a price in sacrifice and obedience through the word.
Isaiah 28:11-12 states that through stammering lips and other tongues would God speak to this LAST generation of man!

BUT THEY WILL NOT HEAR!

 

[Blain]

So the sounds are the same, only one is infused with the Spirt and another isn't.

The sounds can be the same if one practices them enough yes but anyone who would go through the trouble of pretending to speak in tongues would save time and effort just asking for it instead. There are also certain circumstances that prove tongues are real for it could not have happened if it wasn't. like my friend with the stuttering problem who in the middle of prayer suddenly spoke fluent hebrew without a single stutter that would not have been possible otherwise

 

[ResidentAlien]

So @Kavik here is a video of the famed Rodney Howard Brown and Kenneth Copeland speaking in tongues. The discourse would of course fail the acid test for grammatical plausibility - buts let's pretend it is a real heavenly language for the purpose of your claims. I can't think anyone will be too disappointed if you certify it as a deception and as a babble of noise.

From my own point of view, put simply, the video is a clear deception despite any ability or not of knowing that the language is a fraud - and the Scripture would define that very easily. Not least because these two men are neither speaking to God and neither are they interpreting what they are saying to one another. Yet they clearly intend that those who were observing this very sad event in the audience - back in the day - were clearly both amused and impressed. No interpretation and no direction to God - you would think that they would have been more inclined to speak prophetically - at least that could have been more easily tested. But alas they did what they did because they were establishing a false relationship in which Keneth Copeland had to establish that he was the greater between these two men - but both men were great to the church.

I saw the original video back in the 80's and knew then that this presentation was more demonic than many believers are comfortable with my saying - but in any case the exchange ends with Keneth Copeland striking Rodney Howard Brown in the stomach and Brown bowing down to Copeland. That is not in this clip - but it is in the original clip.

Anyways the more interesting part of this short clip is much more real and comes after the two men - where my reference to the acquisition of first language is demonstrated - and hence why the narrator uses the term linguistics in his opening comments. That at least you should connect with. But I still would like you to uphold your claim to myself that there is a universal language trait that can be detected in all languages that have meaning. Start by demonstrating that from this exchange between two grown men and why two sweet babies proves that neurological reality of language. And if you won't acknowledge your own claims then neither will I post the linguistic sample of plausible language structure that is nevertheless just as false as the tongues spoken by two grown men in the video.

Howard-Brown and Copeland aren't speaking any language; they're talking gibberish, just like the two toddlers. Thus the rules of linguistics don't apply.

 

[1ofthem]

I thought about posting a couple videos from actual church services where people don't ask for money, fame, or anything like that and the genuine spirit of God is moving on them, but I am afraid to do that here.

Some of you have hardened your hearts so much against speaking in tongues through the Holy Ghost and the complete Word of God...I'm afraid it could lead to you speaking badly of a true example of speaking in tongues through the Holy Ghost. Which we know is a big no, no for anyone to do that.

I would have no problem posting the fake which some have already posted here. Simply because they are fake, and you would be in no danger of calling them out as fake and saying that it isn't the Holy Ghost moving on them.

So, my only advice here is to genuinely and sincerely take it to the Lord.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I thought about posting a couple videos from actual church services where people don't ask for money, fame, or anything like that and the genuine spirit of God is moving on them, but I am afraid to do that here.

Some of you have hardened your hearts so much against speaking in tongues through the Holy Ghost and the complete Word of God...I'm afraid it could lead to you speaking badly of a true example of speaking in tongues through the Holy Ghost. Which we know is a big no, no for anyone to do that.

I would have no problem posting the fake which some have already posted here. Simply because they are fake, and you would be in no danger of calling them out as fake and saying that it isn't the Holy Ghost moving on them.

So, my only advice here is to genuinely and sincerely take it to the Lord.

From what you say, it sounds like you would probably view genuine tongues as the exercising of the gift in accordance with Biblical guidelines and all other false then. Am I correct?

 

[Oblio]

People have rarely heard me speak in tongues. Though I don't try to hide it. I don't think about it too hard.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Howard-Brown and Copeland aren't speaking any language; they're talking gibberish, just like the two toddlers. Thus the rules of linguistics don't apply.

Anyways the more interesting part of this short clip is much more real and comes after the two men - where my reference to the acquisition of first language is demonstrated - and hence why the narrator uses the term linguistics in his opening comments.

Let the person I am speaking to answer the point that he made to define how language can be proven. Your enthusiasm for disproving a continuation of tongues is commendable - but you're going ahead of what has been said. I didn't say the two toddlers were speaking at all. Pay attention.

 

[Oblio]

Sometimes I think these forums are an absolute waste of time. But what do I know?