Galatians Discussion

[reneweddaybyday]

I just don’t want to assume everyone is believing justification by works, and force it in here leading to different conclusions then the text mentions.

I believe the text does reveal there was a belief that justification was through the works of the law.

Don't stop reading at Gal 2:21 ... continue reading:

Galatians 3:

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

...

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

...

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


The purpose of the law was to point to Christ. Faith has always been the means by which mankind is justified.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have a question that relates to what we find taught in the epistle of Paul to the Galatians.

In 1 John 3:4 we find that sin is the transgression of the law;

And in 1 John 3:9 we find that the one who is born of God "cannot sin" (count this as hyperbole if you so desire)...

Would it not then be true that the one who is justified would be one who keeps the law perfectly; since if he is born of God, he "cannot sin"?

And therefore, is not the one who is born of God justified through the fact that he keeps the law perfectly; since it is his lack of a sinful lifestyle that identifies him as being born of God?

Is it not the fact that he "cannot sin" that identifies him as being born again?

So, since sin is the transgression of the law, is it not his law-keeping that justifies him as being born of God?
.
.
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I would say to all of this that a person first places their faith and trust in Jesus Christ, is then justified by and through that faith; and then begins to consistently bear the fruit of the Spirit against which there is no law.

So, the person is not justified by or through their law-keeping but by and through faith in Jesus Christ.

Then, having been justified by and through faith, their behaviour begins to change so that they cease from violating the law of the Lord.

Even as it is written,

Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

not to be confused with,

Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The former verse referring to how a man will be justified if he was a doer of the law on the day of judgment when men will be judged by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10);

And the latter verse referring to the fact that a person is regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost, not by works of righteousness which he hath done; but that, being regenerated and renewed, such a person would have the love of the Lord shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5); and this love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) would be the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within that believer (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).

And that therefore, justification, to wit, being born again, is through faith alone while such a faith will produce works inevitably (that person becoming a doer of the law) since love is the fulfilling of the law.

And a person who has not received the love of the Lord has not been born again (Romans 5:5).

 

[justbyfaith]

If scripture tells us not to be guided by the law as Christ explained the law to us, then scripture does not agree with scripture. God never tells us that God is wrong. Got does not argue with God.

Here are just a few of the many scriptures telling us to do our best to keep the law:

Proverbs 4:4
Then he taught me and said to me,
“Let your heart hold fast my words;
Keep my commandments and live;

Matthew 19:17
And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Romans 7:12
So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Christ changed the letter of the law written in stone with earthly commandments to guide people to the law. This is often called the law of Moses. The law as Christ gave it to us ("but I tell you") is the true law.

I think that you read one sentence of my post and immediately made a judgment.

If you will read the rest of the post I think that you will find that the whole of the post is not in disagreement with what you are saying.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have a question that relates to what we find taught in the epistle of Paul to the Galatians.

In 1 John 3:4 we find that sin is the transgression of the law;

And in 1 John 3:9 we find that the one who is born of God "cannot sin" (count this as hyperbole if you so desire)...

Would it not then be true that the one who is justified would be one who keeps the law perfectly; since if he is born of God, he "cannot sin"?

And therefore, is not the one who is born of God justified through the fact that he keeps the law perfectly; since it is his lack of a sinful lifestyle that identifies him as being born of God?

Is it not the fact that he "cannot sin" that identifies him as being born again?

So, since sin is the transgression of the law, is it not his law-keeping that justifies him as being born of God?
.
.
.
I would say to all of this that a person first places their faith and trust in Jesus Christ, is then justified by and through that faith; and then begins to consistently bear the fruit of the Spirit against which there is no law.

So, the person is not justified by or through their law-keeping but by and through faith in Jesus Christ.

Then, having been justified by and through faith, their behaviour begins to change so that they cease from violating the law of the Lord.

Even as it is written,

Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

not to be confused with,

Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The former verse referring to how a man will be justified if he was a doer of the law on the day of judgment when men will be judged by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10);

And the latter verse referring to the fact that a person is regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost, not by works of righteousness which he hath done; but that, being regenerated and renewed, such a person would have the love of the Lord shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5); and this love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) would be the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within that believer (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).

And that therefore, justification, to wit, being born again, is through faith alone while such a faith will produce works inevitably (that person becoming a doer of the law) since love is the fulfilling of the law.

And a person who has not received the love of the Lord has not been born again (Romans 5:5).

The answer is on the rest of what Paul said about the law youll notice a consistent repetitive theme

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12, 19‬ ‭

to be righteous and justified we have to go here out from the law away from it into the gospel

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a lot more but it repeats itself same message

The law isn’t for Christians and cannot justify anyone. Because it’s for these people who don’t know repentance

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It can’t justify or make sinners right with God all it is is a law for unrighteous people to hold them Guilty as shown above repetitively the gospel is for repentant sinners who are being called into the life of Christ the son of God it’s for Gods beloved children where as the law is for lawless people who are wicked it’s what will condemn them in the end Christians will be saved by the New Testament the law of Christ which he spoke in the gospel and will save those who convert to him from the law of sin and death

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you saying that there are not those who claim to be Christians who are wicked?

I find that there are those who purport faith in Christianity who do not live up to the name of Christian. I'm not just talking failings here and there; I am talking about blatant sin.

Does not the law give us the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and is not sin the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)?

As Christians we are commanded not to sin (1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26).

And it remains that those who are born of God cannot sin (1 John 3:9); and that therefore, it seems to me, that if I am justified (born again) it will result in my being obedient to the law; since sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

I am not justified through my law-keeping; but I keep the law because I have been justified.

It is simply important not to put the cart before the horse.

 

[Faithiskey1]

Would it not then be true that the one who is justified would be one who keeps the law perfectly; since if he is born of God, he "cannot sin"?

.

The above of course would mean-in reality. Saved by a righteousness of faith in Christ, continue as a christian under a righteousness of perfectly obeying the law.

 

[justbyfaith]

The above of course would mean-in reality. Saved by a righteousness of faith in Christ, continue as a christian under a righteousness of perfectly obeying the law.

So, do you cross out 1 John 3:9 therefore? What do you do with it?

It seems to me that our means of salvation is faith in Jesus Christ all the way through; but that He came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

We place our faith therefore in Jesus Christ and He makes us into new creatures in Him (2 Corinthians 5:17). The old has passed away, behold, all things have become new!

We have a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

In that we do not obtain it by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather we place our faith in Jesus and obtain the Holy Spirit thereby (Galatians 3:14). Then, as we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). That is, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see also Ezekiel 36:25-27).

This is not obtained through the venue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts. It is obtained solely by faith in Jesus Christ.

He fills us with the fruits of His righteousness (Philippians 1:11) which includes goodness (Galatians 5:22-23).

As we walk according to goodness, there is no law that we will violate because of our faith.

Jesus cleanses the inside of the cup and platter so that the outside will be clean also (Matthew 23:25-28).

 

[Faithiskey1]

So, do you cross out 1 John 3:9 therefore? What do you do with it?

It seems to me that our means of salvation is faith in Jesus Christ all the way through; but that He came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

We place our faith therefore in Jesus Christ and He makes us into new creatures in Him (2 Corinthians 5:17). The old has passed away, behold, all things have become new!

We have a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

In that we do not obtain it by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather we place our faith in Jesus and obtain the Holy Spirit thereby (Galatians 3:14). Then, as we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). That is, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see also Ezekiel 36:25-27).

This is not obtained through the venue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts. It is obtained solely by faith in Jesus Christ.

He fills us with the fruits of His righteousness (Philippians 1:11) which includes goodness (Galatians 5:22-23).

As we walk according to goodness, there is no law that we will violate because of our faith.

Jesus cleanses the inside of the cup and platter so that the outside will be clean also (Matthew 23:25-28).

I am afraid, it seems to me you have a head theology but no practical reality in your life. It seems obvious to me you believe in righteousness apart from observing the law only at the point of conversion. Anyone reading what you write would have to conclude they can only remain justified in God's sight if they don't commit any sin. Its quite obvious if you tell people to be justified as a christian you must fully obey the law, they will live their life focusing on a righteousness of fully obeying the law. That's the real world, for that is now what their continued salvation hinges on. No one fully obeys the law, Im sorry, but you would have to be blind, or very hard heartened to believe otherwise.
Im not going over 1John 3:9 again, twice my thoughts have been put before you of that verse, and suprisingly now, you previously said you agreed with them

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Are you saying that there are not those who claim to be Christians who are wicked?

I find that there are those who purport faith in Christianity who do not live up to the name of Christian. I'm not just talking failings here and there; I am talking about blatant sin.

Does not the law give us the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and is not sin the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)?

As Christians we are commanded not to sin (1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26).

And it remains that those who are born of God cannot sin (1 John 3:9); and that therefore, it seems to me, that if I am justified (born again) it will result in my being obedient to the law; since sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

I am not justified through my law-keeping; but I keep the law because I have been justified.

It is simply important not to put the cart before the horse.

lol no , I was showing you repeatedly what Paul was saying about the law me I see you have skipped over that part ? What did you get from all those scriptures ? Does it sound like he’s explaining we need to keep the law ? Or is he explaining those things won’t help ?

Christians are these folk

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that doesn’t have anything to do with Moses law it means we have to believe the gospel and get baptized for remission of sins

did you notice this part ?

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭

the law was meant to last until Christ was come to preach the gospel which was the promise made to abrahams seed which is Christ Jesus

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That kips over the law did you notice ? It goes from abrahams promise , to the coming of Christ the messiah his seed

Christ is the end of the law for all who accept the gospel and believe

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be right with God we have to move out from the law of Moses me move into the doctrine of Jesus Christ it’s better ot remits our sins where as the law imputes every transgression for the purpose of making us guilty

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once you understand your a sinner d sinners are all under the sentance of death that’s all the law can do it leads us to where we need a savior and we have one now the law lasted until Jesus died and rose at that point Gods doctrine is Jesus word forever the law has a function but it’s meant to bring us to Christ that’s all It was meant to do last until the promised seed came

all
I was saying was look at what Paul teaches about the law in every epistle it’s consistent and really super clear once we get that part we can understand this is our law be its life rather than death like the law of Moses

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭

You see ? We aren’t lawless we have Gods true law the word of Christ , not the one that came because of sin that was until he came , but one that came to offer remission of sins and the righteousness of God the one offering life

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is different than this

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one is faithful one is not it’s based on
Mans ability to be holy and no one has been a holy man wouldn’t need the law but he would keep it perfectly because it wouldn’t even apply to him it’s for sinful people who rebel and don’t repent that’s why they all died even Moses because of his sin

I was just showing you more of what Paul was saying though please don’t reframe it just of you care to read it and your welcome tomskip
Over my words and just check out what Paul was saying look also at the context around what I quoted it makes it even clearer paul Was a Pharisee kept the law he says “faultlessly “ but he then says compared to the gospel it’s as dung to him his keeping of the law that’s pretty powerful stuff Paul’s the best place to
Learn about the law and it isn’t that it’s for us that he teaches

 

[Faithiskey1]

At the age of ten I responded to an altar call. I had been a normal healthy kid before I did so, but everything was about to change. The first big difference I noticed was, I became aware of my faults/sins in a way I never had previously (yes, even at that age!) I was determined to follow Christ and live a pure and holy life, for that is how in my heart I wanted to live. But as I now had the law within me, I could not hide from that law. If I lived as I had previously lived, I would be going against it. At times I got angry, and knew this was wrong, it was going against God’s moral law(didn’t reason it that way that young) so I had to stop being angry. I had unkind thoughts about some others, that was wrong also. I didn’t love many others as I should, that was wrong too. And I had a conscience about not always acting as I should act. In fact, I was starting to become much less happy than I had been before I made a commitment to Christ, for now I was burdened by my imperfections as I had not previously been.

Then I reached puberty, and along came impure thoughts. I so much did not want them, I knew they were sin (it was breaking the moral law inside of me) but no matter how hard I tried to resist them, they would not stop. In truth, I feared them, they could send me to hell, for Christians must live a life of obeying God, you cannot expect to attain heaven if you live a life of sin. The more I feared those thoughts, the more I feared they could send me to hell, the worse they got. I was not a happy young man anymore. I was guilt ridden by my inability to obey God, and live a pure and holy life for him. I started to feel condemned, and all the time the sin got worse. On the outside, I could still appear to be living a very good and holy life, but the inside was completely different. I was despondant, and felt it was all hopeless, I would end up in hell because I could not live as others did I saw in church on Sundays(AOG church). For I imagined they were afflicted with none of the faults I had, they constantly told me how I should live my life, and we must obey God/his laws. They dressed immaculately, the women wore expensive hats, and after the service I received a handshake, a Godply smile and a relevant scripture verse if it was felt neccessary. Surely these people were obeying God's laws whilst I on the inside was not.

In the end, I walked away from the church. I refused to be a hypocrite, I could not live as Christians should live. I certainly could not be righteous before God by obeying his good and holy laws. I was a condemned sinner who would be cast into hell.

Looking back at that time, how can I describe it? I had felt alive once before the law came to me as it did, for there was no condemnation then, but when it did come, sin(consciousness) sprang to life and I died/felt condemned. The commandment that I believed was ordained to life/enable me to be a Christian and attain to heaven(if I obeyed it), instead brought death/condemnation (for I could not keep it). Through my knowledge of the commandments all manner of sin was aroused in me. For sin took occasion of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in me. Was the law death for me? No, the law itself is holy, just and good, but sin took occasion of what was holy, just and good to make me exccedingly sinfull, and through it condemn me. (Rom7:7-13) I had tried to attain to heaven as Saul the Pharisee did and got the same result he did.



Fortunately for me, a few years later someone gave me a book, and in it was a chapter on Paul’s message of grace. I was stunned by what I read. I could have no righteousnerss of obeying God’s laws. No one had ever told me that before in churches. But as it was plainly written I believed it. But what of the sin? I didn’t want it for I was born again. I had been a slave to breaking the commandment: ‘Thou shalt not covet’ where masturbation was concerned for six years. It only got worse when I believed such sin could send me to hell. But now I gave it to God and trusted I was saved because Jesus was my righteousness before him, I had no other. For three days the masturbation continued, I was breaking God’s moral law(one of the ten commandments), however, for the first time in my life I did not let myself believe it condemned me, I trusted I was righteous in Gods sight because Jesus died for me. Those three days were so hard, I had to discard logic and just cling to faith in Christ. A voice relentlessly told me in my head, I was just faking christianity, I was a hypocrite, I could not be saved due to what I was doing. And my rational mind agreed with that voice. But I kept looking to Christ and trusting him, clinging to what Paul wrote, logic was cast aside, only faith remained. On the fourth day, this sin I had been a slave to for six years stopped. While I lived under righteousness of observing the law it only got worse. Paul wrote:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law(of righteousness) but under grace(righteousness of faith in Christ) Rom 6:14 But few it seems dare to actually believe it. For as Jesus said:

Many after drinking the old wine don’t want the new, for they say ‘the old is better’ Luke5:39

 

[justbyfaith]

We are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

For we are forgiven of past, present, and future sin through faith in the blood of Jesus.

And therefore, our salvation is not based on how we continue to live out our performance in our Christian walk.

As concerning obedience, sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) and we are commanded not to sin (1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26). So, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21) as concerning obedience.

Which means that the law is written on our hearts and in our minds as new Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

In Philippians 3:9, we are told that the righteousness of the law is as dung; that we can only be justified by the righteousness which is of God by faith.

But the reality is, that we receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14).

And if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

So then, the righteousness which is of God by faith translates into the righteousness of the law being fulfilled in us.

The difference is that with the righteousness which is of God by faith, Jesus cleanses the inside of the cup and platter (so that the outside also may be clean) whereas when you are looking at the righteousness of the law, alone, only the outside of the cup and platter is being cleansed (Matthew 23:25-28).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So, do you cross out 1 John 3:9 therefore? What do you do with it?

It seems to me that our means of salvation is faith in Jesus Christ all the way through; but that He came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

We place our faith therefore in Jesus Christ and He makes us into new creatures in Him (2 Corinthians 5:17). The old has passed away, behold, all things have become new!

We have a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

In that we do not obtain it by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather we place our faith in Jesus and obtain the Holy Spirit thereby (Galatians 3:14). Then, as we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). That is, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see also Ezekiel 36:25-27).

This is not obtained through the venue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts. It is obtained solely by faith in Jesus Christ.

He fills us with the fruits of His righteousness (Philippians 1:11) which includes goodness (Galatians 5:22-23).

As we walk according to goodness, there is no law that we will violate because of our faith.

Jesus cleanses the inside of the cup and platter so that the outside will be clean also (Matthew 23:25-28).

you have the answer

“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

….Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.( what brings fruit that’s gospel language right ?)

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭

if this is true

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how can a dead person sin against a law that only lasts until they die ????? We can’t sin because we aren’t under the law we aren’t going to be judged by what the law defines as sin it doesn’t apply to us we already died to the law because we’ve all sinned beforehand

dead people aren’t under the law can’t sin against it they already sinned and died that’s why we get baptized oir jidgement isnt from Moses law

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

oir law is this this is what’s going to determine if we’ve done good or bad

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:49-50‬ ‭

we belong to the new now we died already for sin ( the laws knowledge ) now we’re living here

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬

Jesus doesn’t define sin he teaches us the truth about right and wrong Moses law accuses sinners but again we already died it’s why we get baptized ot fulfills the the law when a sinner does and it has no more to say to the dead person Moses law does this

“Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t sin because we aren’t under the law now we’re going to be judged by right and wrong according to Christ Jesus it’s way way way better

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

For we are forgiven of past, present, and future sin through faith in the blood of Jesus.

And therefore, our salvation is not based on how we continue to live out our performance in our Christian walk.

As concerning obedience, sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) and we are commanded not to sin (1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26). So, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21) as concerning obedience.

Which means that the law is written on our hearts and in our minds as new Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

In Philippians 3:9, we are told that the righteousness of the law is as dung; that we can only be justified by the righteousness which is of God by faith.

But the reality is, that we receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14).

And if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

So then, the righteousness which is of God by faith translates into the righteousness of the law being fulfilled in us.

The difference is that with the righteousness which is of God by faith, Jesus cleanses the inside of the cup and platter (so that the outside also may be clean) whereas when you are looking at the righteousness of the law, alone, only the outside of the cup and platter is being cleansed (Matthew 23:25-28).

your adding this part

“as concerning condemnation.”

that’s not what it says it’s speaks of the works of the law not bekng able to
Justify anyone all the law can do is condemn sinners , that’s it’s function

 

[Faithiskey1]

In the first example of the parable of the sower satan snatched away the seed/word that was planted in peoples’ hearts. How could he do that? A person accepts the message, it is in their heart. They accept Christ and stand before God spotless in His sight. They have done nothing to earn or deserve their salvation, it is a free gift based on what Christ did for them. They are righteous in God’s sight through faith in His son. How can satan now remove the word from their heart? He would have a tough job getting the new believer to believe Jesus did not die at calvary, for they are firmly convinced he did. But satan is subtle, he appeals to human reasoning. He plants the rationale in the new converts mind that now he is saved he must obey God’s laws, he may have been saved by faith, but Christians can’t go around living a life of sin, so if they don’t obey the law they naturally cannot remain saved/justified. Some new converts would naturally think this is correct reasoning, what could be wrong with it, who could argue against it? And so they strive to obey the law so as they can remain saved. Things have changed now though, they no longer have a righteousness of faith in Christ but one of obeying the law, fail to obey it and they can no longer remain saved.. Satan has snatched the word out of their heart that was planted there.

 

[justbyfaith]

your adding this part

“as concerning condemnation.”

that’s not what it says it’s speaks of the works of the law not bekng able to
Justify anyone all the law can do is condemn sinners , that’s it’s function

I say that it is as concerning condemnation because it is clear from other scriptures that we are under the law as concerning obedience; as I related in the post in question.

If all the law does is condemn sinners then why is it written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers? is the law intended to condemn the New Covenant believer?

Is it written on our hearts and minds so that we can condemn others?

 

[justbyfaith]

In the first example of the parable of the sower satan snatched away the seed/word that was planted in peoples’ hearts. How could he do that? A person accepts the message, it is in their heart. They accept Christ and stand before God spotless in His sight. They have done nothing to earn or deserve their salvation, it is a free gift based on what Christ did for them. They are righteous in God’s sight through faith in His son. How can satan now remove the word from their heart? He would have a tough job getting the new believer to believe Jesus did not die at calvary, for they are firmly convinced he did. But satan is subtle, he appeals to human reasoning. He plants the rationale in the new converts mind that now he is saved he must obey God’s laws, he may have been saved by faith, but Christians can’t go around living a life of sin, so if they don’t obey the law they naturally cannot remain saved/justified. Some new converts would naturally think this is correct reasoning, what could be wrong with it, who could argue against it? And so they strive to obey the law so as they can remain saved. Things have changed now though, they no longer have a righteousness of faith in Christ but one of obeying the law, fail to obey it and they can no longer remain saved.. Satan has snatched the word out of their heart that was planted there.

And I agree with you that that is the devil's strategy.

But there are definitely verses in the Bible that teach concerning the law of the Lord that if taken incorrectly might lead a person to believe that they must maintain their salvation through law-keeping.

I deal with this problem by stressing on such verses so that when the person comes out the other side and are truly born again, they are cured of the kind of thinking that stresses law-keeping as a means of obtaining and/or maintaining salvation.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. It is the person who is on shallow ground who has not been prepped by the law therefore; if someone has come to the end of himself because the law has shown him that he is irreparably a sinner apart from the grace of God; when he comes to Christ he will be a die-hard proponent of the grace of the Lord when it comes to his own salvation; while he may indeed use the tactic that was used on him to bring others to Christ; in that the evangelist simply introduced him to a schoolmaster who introduced him to the only one who could save him.

Let me put it this way: if someone has a sever illness and you have the medicine for it, offering that person medicine will do them no good if they don't realize that they have a severe illness. The law shows the sinner that he has a severe illness so that he will receive the "medicine"...God's grace...when it is offered to him.

 

[Faithiskey1]

And I agree with you that that is the devil's strategy.

But there are definitely verses in the Bible that teach concerning the law of the Lord that if taken incorrectly might lead a person to believe that they must maintain their salvation through law-keeping.

I deal with this problem by stressing on such verses so that when the person comes out the other side and are truly born again, they are cured of the kind of thinking that stresses law-keeping as a means of obtaining and/or maintaining salvation.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. It is the person who is on shallow ground who has not been prepped by the law therefore; if someone has come to the end of himself because the law has shown him that he is irreparably a sinner apart from the grace of God; when he comes to Christ he will be a die-hard proponent of the grace of the Lord when it comes to his own salvation; while he may indeed use the tactic that was used on him to bring others to Christ; in that the evangelist simply introduced him to a schoolmaster who introduced him to the only one who could save him.

Let me put it this way: if someone has a sever illness and you have the medicine for it, offering that person medicine will do them no good if they don't realize that they have a severe illness. The law shows the sinner that he has a severe illness so that he will receive the "medicine"...God's grace...when it is offered to him.

Can I ask you, if you believe Christ is a believers righteousness for the whole of their life, how does that square with at the same time giving the condition of almost perfect lawkeeping to remain justified before God? The two cannot go together Im afraid, however you try and rationalise it

 

[justbyfaith]

Can I ask you, if you believe Christ is a believers righteousness for the whole of their life, how does that square with at the same time giving the condition of almost perfect lawkeeping to remain justified before God? The two cannot go together Im afraid, however you try and rationalise it

No, we are not justified by law-keeping.

However, if we are born again the result will be that we will become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (Galatians 5:22-23, Ezekiel 36:25-27).

We simply must not put the cart before the horse.

 

[Faithiskey1]

No, we are not justified by law-keeping.

.

You wrote:

I have a question that relates to what we find taught in the epistle of Paul to the Galatians.

In 1 John 3:4 we find that sin is the transgression of the law;

And in 1 John 3:9 we find that the one who is born of God "cannot sin" (count this as hyperbole if you so desire)...

Would it not then be true that the one who is justified would be one who keeps the law perfectly; since if he is born of God, he "cannot sin"?

And therefore, is not the one who is born of God justified through the fact that he keeps the law perfectly; since it is his lack of a sinful lifestyle that identifies him as being born of God?

Is it not the fact that he "cannot sin" that identifies him as being born again?

So, since sin is the transgression of the law, is it not his law-keeping that justifies him as being born of God?

 

[justbyfaith]

You wrote:

I have a question that relates to what we find taught in the epistle of Paul to the Galatians.

In 1 John 3:4 we find that sin is the transgression of the law;

And in 1 John 3:9 we find that the one who is born of God "cannot sin" (count this as hyperbole if you so desire)...

Would it not then be true that the one who is justified would be one who keeps the law perfectly; since if he is born of God, he "cannot sin"?

And therefore, is not the one who is born of God justified through the fact that he keeps the law perfectly; since it is his lack of a sinful lifestyle that identifies him as being born of God?

Is it not the fact that he "cannot sin" that identifies him as being born again?

So, since sin is the transgression of the law, is it not his law-keeping that justifies him as being born of God?

Hi, I will repeat what I said in the other thread where you quoted me as saying this.

Yes, I was asking these things as questions seeking help for what I perceived to be an apparent contradiction in holy scripture.

What did I say afterwards in the same post?

https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4742646