Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Heaven_Bound]

Where's the Scripture for that? The only ones hidden are believing Jews during the Tribulation.

They are not hidden until they see the antichrist for themselves and go to war and only a few in comparison to the whole actually escape.

We, unlike the Jews, believe there will be a Beast, False Prophet, puppets of Satan, and it does not say it in the Bible, but one would imagine Demons are everywhere doing their deeds rather openly. There's many things like the Mark of the Beast we don't know of but can guess by technology, there's a way that connects banking, medical, your personal data that is not listed in the Bible, but we have a good guess based upon technology. We know so much now, why wouldn't we hide?

 

[Heaven_Bound]

How can we say the MOB is RFID Chips because they hold Data and can be used as Identification, banking, medical, Tracking devices. Many believe this is a possibility. Is it written in the Bible? NO, so why do many still believe it? Because it is Logical, is why!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

California Companies have tens of thousands of people with RFID Chips to clock in/out for Work/Breaks/hours worked/etc.
Switzerland is chipping people now for banking and medical and identification
Switzerland is Chipping for Vaccine Passports.
It is currently happening, why would the Beast not use the Technology?

But, does the Bible say this is how it will work?
NO!

But, it is logical to think it will happen by REFID Chips because we see it being successfully done right now before our very eyes.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Look at the Businesses going Cashless?

Even Walmart refuses to give cash back on the discover card.
Why?

A Cashless system and society is coming.

Is that Biblical?
Technically No, but once we go Electronic and Cashless, RFID fits the perfect piece of the puzzle.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

And many Believers believe this fits the Quantum Tech molds.

But, it is not Biblical.

So, why do we believe in it?

Because, we know going electronic can bring everything we do down to ONE RESOURCE, the Computer.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Look at Bitcoin. Already enough are involved we could destroy cash right now and be paperless for rest of humanity.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

But none of it is actually Word of God, but we see it happening before our eyes. It's not fake, it is reality, it is tangible, we can see it being done. So, that must be what the Bible meant even though it does not read that way.

 

[cv5]

Using Factual Letters from John's Disciples is Bush League?

Well, if that ain't admitting I am correct, nothing does!

If you want to impress me go through Dr. Fruchtenbaum's video, and refute what he is saying point by point. Until then you're just another addled post-tribber who just doesn't get it.

You might as well do the same with the Feast of Trumpets video that I posted.

After crawling through so many of these Rapture threads, I have yet to see anything even remotely convincing out of the post-tribbers. What I DO see is endless misapprehensions and errors.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

If you want to impress me go through Dr. Fruchtenbaum's video, and refute what he is saying point by point. Until then you're just another addled post-tribber who just doesn't get it.

You might as well do the same with the Feast of Trumpets video that I posted.

After crawling through so many of these Rapture threads, I have yet to see anything even remotely convincing out of the post-tribbers. What I DO see is endless misapprehensions and errors.

Thank You for sharing how you feel, at least WE KNOW we feel the same way towards each others View on this particular topic.

I will watch the video, but I have seen most of them and at some point I just laugh too hard that the tears steam up my glasses and I know I've had enough humor for one night.

 

[cv5]

Hello- I may be misunderstanding you, but I wan't trying to say the Last Day would be before the tribulation...The last day means the last day of this age, which would at the Second Coming, then we go into the 'age that is to come..' i.e. the 1000 year reign on earth. Am I understanding what you were saying?

"these are the last days"......Indeed these ARE the "last days".....of the Age of Grace aka the Church age. Been going on now for over 2000 years but not much longer.

This age ends at the rapture. THEN and only then The Day of the Lord begins with the 70th week of Daniel, which itself begins only after the rapture and when the man of sin is revealed.

The point I'm trying to make is that "the last days" as used by the Apostles (many times!) in reference to the Church have nothing whatsoever to do with Matt 24 (end time verses) aka Daniels 70th week aka the time of the Tribulation, which is merely the BEGINNING of the DOTL,

 

[cv5]

Look at Bitcoin. Already enough are involved we could destroy cash right now and be paperless for rest of humanity.

You clearly have no understanding of Bitcoin. Or block chain. There is maybe only 2 million or so bitcoin on the exchanges right now. An absolutely absurdly low number.

Find out about the shadow banking euro dollar, inverted yield curves and get back to me buddy.

 

[Jackson123]

This age ends at the rapture. THEN and only then The Day of the Lord begins with the 70th week of Daniel, which itself begins only after the rapture and when the man of sin is revealed.

No, rapture after the man of sin revealed, you reversed it

2 tes 2
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Apostle Paul know there is lie doctrine going on so verse 3 say don't anyone deceived you

 

[Heaven_Bound]

You clearly have no understanding of Bitcoin. Or block chain. There is maybe only 2 million or so bitcoin on the exchanges right now. An absolutely absurdly low number.

Find out about the shadow banking euro dollar, inverted yield curves and get back to me buddy.

No, the big thing are bitcoin shares. That will turn into mega bucks and flip bitcoin. But then again, those markets are at max investment with high risk, meaning, anyone investing has more than enough to lose before they gain. But bitcoin is being pushed by the likes of Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, billionaire who owns Virgin mobile, Amazon founder Bezos, mega football star like Tom Brady, mega basketball star like Lebron James. It's more happening than you clearly understand.

And btw, I've flipped through 30 pages and haven't found your video but am trying to do so.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Snoop Dogg and billionaire beyonce and her mogul husband who own the nbs nets are all pushing bitcoin. it will be a thing because Americans are suckers for big names.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

jay z is the husband

 

[TheLordIsMyRedeemer]

Interesting Viewpoint!

I believe there is only One Event and the Rapture/Second Coming is that Event.

My bottom line is God. God said He only Returns One More Time. To add another Secret Coming goes against what God already told us. If God does not say He is Coming TWO More Times, then I believe God is only Coming back One More Time, like God said.

I understand why you hold to the post-trib position. I regret demonstrating what was a lack of understanding of the complexities of the various rapture theories in a previous post.

Have you considered the fact that the harpazo event of Revelation 12:5 is described by most scholars as a separate harpazo event from the second coming at the end of Daniel’s 70th week? Is this the so called “secret rapture?”

The strong belief pre-trib proponents have in strict dispensationalism is used to separate the Church from the 70th week of Daniel and keep all current gentile believers out of the book of Revelation. I view this as incorrect as I know you do.

My position is not pre-trib or post-trib. I see the 1 Thess 4:14-17 harpazo occurring in accordance with the prewrath rapture theory.

The hope I have as a faithful believer is not for a pre-trib rapture or a pre-wrath rapture after the great tribulation. Could the antichrist have been already revealed to the current faithful remnant according to Acts 2:17? I’d say it’s possible.

I look forward to this glorification event mentioned in Rom. 8:17, and Rom. 8:30. Perhaps the same event is described in Daniel 12:1-3. I am focused on being faithful to God so I will obtain the inheritance promised to me in 1 Peter 1:4-5.

It is my view the Church is already seeing the signs mentioned in Matt. 24:4-8. I think the harpazo event of Rev. 12:5 will occur during this period following the glorification.

I view this glorification as occurring within Daniel’s 70th week during Matt. 24:4-8. The persecution that is described in Matt. 24:9-14 is analogous to the persecution the unfaithful church endures from Mystery Babylon described in Rev. 2:10 and Rev. 17:6.

It is the current unfaithful/lukewarm gentile church that will undergo further refining when persecution from Mystery Babylon comes.

Perhaps God is foreshadowing the harvest of Rev 14:14-16 with a harvest his glorified remnant will help reap according to Matt. 10:7, Matt. 24:14, Matt. 28:20, and Mark 16:5.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Arnold Fruchtenbaum - The Rapture
Lets wrap this up folks. The Pre-Trib rapture is....scripturally immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable. It's all here. Answers all detractors.

Talk about false Ecclesiology in connecting Christ and Body plus not to mention Chronological order.

He stated, MYSTERY, being something only the New testament people would know.

Oddly enough, Matthew 24:29-31 was not foretold in the Old Testament and here he is trying to claim it had to be but with no proof.

If this is your evidence, good luck!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

I understand why you hold to the post-trib position. I regret demonstrating what was a lack of understanding of the complexities of the various rapture theories in a previous post.

Have you considered the fact that the harpazo event of Revelation 12:5 is described by most scholars as a separate harpazo event from the second coming at the end of Daniel’s 70th week? Is this the so called “secret rapture?”

The strong belief pre-trib proponents have in strict dispensationalism is used to separate the Church from the 70th week of Daniel and keep all current gentile believers out of the book of Revelation. I view this as incorrect as I know you do.

My position is not pre-trib or post-trib. I see the 1 Thess 4:14-17 harpazo occurring in accordance with the prewrath rapture theory.

The hope I have as a faithful believer is not for a pre-trib rapture or a pre-wrath rapture after the great tribulation. Could the antichrist have been already revealed to the current faithful remnant according to Acts 2:17? I’d say it’s possible.

I look forward to this glorification event mentioned in Rom. 8:17, and Rom. 8:30. Perhaps the same event is described in Daniel 12:1-3. I am focused on being faithful to God so I will obtain the inheritance promised to me in 1 Peter 1:4-5.

It is my view the Church is already seeing the signs mentioned in Matt. 24:4-8. I think the harpazo event of Rev. 12:5 will occur during this period following the glorification.

I view this glorification as occurring within Daniel’s 70th week during Matt. 24:4-8. The persecution that is described in Matt. 24:9-14 is analogous to the persecution the unfaithful church endures from Mystery Babylon described in Rev. 2:10 and Rev. 17:6.

It is the current unfaithful/lukewarm gentile church that will undergo further refining when persecution from Mystery Babylon comes.

Perhaps God is foreshadowing the harvest of Rev 14:14-16 with a harvest his glorified remnant will help reap according to Matt. 10:7, Matt. 24:14, Matt. 28:20, and Mark 16:5.

The issue is that Matthew 24 is in Chronological Order. It begins with Temple Destruction and Daniel 12's ending Daily Sacrifice. Then it goes into the specifics of the Attack in 70 A.D.. Then we get to false prophets and antichrists. Then the Tribulation and Second Coming. Then the setting of the Second coming. But people are flipping Verses 35 and on before 29-31. It's the only way to create this pre-trib rapture scheme. It just shows the desperation of those to make an attempt that from Matthew 24:1 to 24:51 is the Correct Order, but that would disprove their Secret coming Theory. And like most Theories (Scientific/Biblical) they end up as failures because it can be proven that it is out of Context and Chronological Order.

 

[Jackson123]

Could the antichrist have been already revealed to the current faithful remnant according to Acts 2:17? I’d say it’s possible.

I believe when the antichrist revealed, people will forced to take the mark of the beast, now I don't hear any body force me to take the mark of the beast, so I believe the antichrist not being reveal yet

 

[DavidTree]

I understand why you hold to the post-trib position. I regret demonstrating what was a lack of understanding of the complexities of the various rapture theories in a previous post.

Have you considered the fact that the harpazo event of Revelation 12:5 is described by most scholars as a separate harpazo event from the second coming at the end of Daniel’s 70th week? Is this the so called “secret rapture?”

The strong belief pre-trib proponents have in strict dispensationalism is used to separate the Church from the 70th week of Daniel and keep all current gentile believers out of the book of Revelation. I view this as incorrect as I know you do.

My position is not pre-trib or post-trib. I see the 1 Thess 4:14-17 harpazo occurring in accordance with the prewrath rapture theory.

The hope I have as a faithful believer is not for a pre-trib rapture or a pre-wrath rapture after the great tribulation. Could the antichrist have been already revealed to the current faithful remnant according to Acts 2:17? I’d say it’s possible.

I look forward to this glorification event mentioned in Rom. 8:17, and Rom. 8:30. Perhaps the same event is described in Daniel 12:1-3. I am focused on being faithful to God so I will obtain the inheritance promised to me in 1 Peter 1:4-5.

It is my view the Church is already seeing the signs mentioned in Matt. 24:4-8. I think the harpazo event of Rev. 12:5 will occur during this period following the glorification.

I view this glorification as occurring within Daniel’s 70th week during Matt. 24:4-8. The persecution that is described in Matt. 24:9-14 is analogous to the persecution the unfaithful church endures from Mystery Babylon described in Rev. 2:10 and Rev. 17:6.

It is the current unfaithful/lukewarm gentile church that will undergo further refining when persecution from Mystery Babylon comes.

Perhaps God is foreshadowing the harvest of Rev 14:14-16 with a harvest his glorified remnant will help reap according to Matt. 10:7, Matt. 24:14, Matt. 28:20, and Mark 16:5.

What makes you think Rev 12:5 is a rapture event of the Body of Christ?

A male child is singular and speaks of Christ.

There is not one Scripture or Prophetic word or vision or occurence in OT of a pre-trib rapture, including Enoch & Elijah.

ALL OT actual prophetic raptures are post-trib and pre-wrath.

These 3 prophets Noah, Daniel and Job completely destroy any false pre-trib rapture or secret rapture.

ALL references to the rapture make it subject to His Second Coming and the Resurrection.

Bible Scholars are "respect of persons" and never should be given the time of day but should be suspect as they rely on intellect.

Bible Scholars constantly attacked Jesus and the Apostles and wreck havoc with Scripture to this day.

The Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, is the only Bible Scholar that we are to say amen to.

These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment. - Prov 24

To have respect of persons is not good: for for a piece of bread that man will transgress. - Prov 28

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. - James 2