TONGUES false teaching.
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O
Oblio
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It was good that you were able to save your animals. Much of the time He may not seem to be there, but I've found that when I need Him most, He comes through. He is faithful...so I know that I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever!
The creator of the universe sent an angel to help you. Sounds to me like He cares about you. Not that He needs to prove it more!
Thanks for sharing your story and photos. The Lord's speaking to me through it.
The creator of the universe sent an angel to help you. Sounds to me like He cares about you. Not that He needs to prove it more!
Thanks for sharing your story and photos. The Lord's speaking to me through it.
Sister, I would not questioning that speaking in tongues is for today, if people would teach it as it is written in 1 Cor. Or at any other letter in the NT.
But it is not!
According 1. COR. 12, every believer is getting a spiritual gift, when he became a child of God. And this is not conditioned on a different expierience!
https://www.learnreligions.com/assemblies-of-god-700144
See point 7 and 8.
Where it is written in the bible?
That there is a different expierience needed, for to get the gifts?
And where it is written that speaking in tongues is an evidence of it?
You may now take Acts 2,8,10 and 19.
But you know that Acts is an report from Luke to Theophilis and contains the history, but less teachings. Acts 2,8,10 and 19 are a reportvof special events.
While you can find in Acts 15 some teaching about that what gentiles should do in different to the jews.
If you dont have the book of Acts, you would have non base for the teaching that speaking in tongues would be the evidence that somrone is baptised with the Holy Spirit.
So this is man made doctrine, but not what the scripture teaches.
That you can find in 1.Cor.
And anyhow after the apostolic time this gift of speaking in tongues disappeared in the churches. Till Montanus build an cult (in around 160) with even the vanished gifts of the apostolic time. And thats why many believed that is from God. But montanism was a cult.
And when the pentecostal teaching came to germany in 1907, many believed that is from God first, but then found out that it was not.
Why? There were events which you can found in spiritism.
iIn the churches of the churchhistory after the apostolic time the Holy Spirit gave these gifts obviously no longer, to the believers as he did in the apostolic time.
Today we see that through the pentecostal and charismatic movements these gifts are available in nearly all denominations.
With this many false teachings came along.
So my conclusion is, if the gift of speaking in tongues would be for today the Lord would not use false teachings. And these gift would be given independ in which church/denomination the believer is.
Adian1 = "So my conclusion is, if the gift of speaking in tongues would be for today the Lord would not use false teachings. And these gift would be given independ in which church/denomination the believer is."
The Gifts of the Spirit are independent of man and religion = always has been and always will be.
You will find the Gifts of the Spirit where there is Faith in the hearts of Believers to receive them = PERIOD.
Unbelief and a double minded heart will receive nothing from the LORD.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.” Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
And He/Jesus marveled because of their unbelief..............Mark 6:4-6
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
Hebrews ch3
K
kaylagrl
Guest
False teaching arises on many Biblical issues. That doesn't make tongues fake. We know that tongues was real in the NT, Paul said not to forbid speaking in tongues. There is no day nor date given that tongues were supposed to stop. Because it ceased for a time, or that people misused the gift, does not make tongues false. But it must be done in order as the NT says.
Oh ok, some things I'm just not going to understand about the word and that tongue thing is one of them, but thank you for explaining how you feel about it. God bless
Stop pretending that you know everything about AoG churches and what people practice in them. I already said it was in AoG that I was taught counterfeit tongues. It appears to me that you have a vested interest in denying the truth of my testimony.
sarcasm will get you nowhere.Nope totally skipped 'em.
If I quote scripture that says "do not take the name of the Lord your God in vain," and then cite an application where many are doing it, do you think me wrong? Do you think I'm trying to take spiritual authority over others? Actually, I'm merely stating what I have observed and experienced. If that offends you, I'm sorry, but love rejoices in the truth. Isn't this a discussion forum as you say?
And so does a woman.
I don't see anyone requesting to have tongues translated and evaluated. Can you show me one?
100%. Some people are saying ALL of them. I'm not so bold as to say that, except I have heard dozens in addition to what I see on youtube, and they were ALL counterfeit. Just listen carefully to what is offered on youtube. Write down the transliteration. Then it will be easy to see that what is spoken is nonsense. It's not language, and that's why it's called pseudo-language. All I'm asking is that you (or anyone) record your tongues, write down the transliteration, and post it in this forum. Is that too much to ask?
I've yet to see anything authentic. Language-like doesn't make it something from God. Just because a person sincerely believes that what they are saying comes from God doesn't make it so. Just because a person is convinced that their tongues is "tongues of angels" doesn't make it so.
That's what I'm doing, but you're griping, and taking what I say out of context. Here's the actual scenario: You claimed you have nothing to prove. I said, if you have nothing to prove, then why are you debating here? I have to assume that you are debating because you do have something to prove, that's why you're debating. Oh, excuse me, "discussing."
This is what I'm trying to find out. Instead of prejudging and rejecting everything I say, why don't you carefully read my request with an open mind?
If P/C (Pentecostal and Charismatic) leaders are acknowledging counterfeit tongues, isn't it your bias that you reject the idea? And if it's not of God, then it's of man. In fact, expert linguists who can translate just about any language and decode cryptic languages like Ugaritic and Hieroglyphics have stated clearly that the 'tongues' they evaluated can't convey a message because it doesn't have any language structure. It also is something anyone can do, which has been proven to be so. In addition to that, P/C doctrine teaches the expectation that EVERYONE receiving the Spirit WILL speak in tongues. Hmm, sounds like the same thing. Yes, I do believe it's the same thing. So it's of human origin, not divine. And the fact that many religions all over the world have people who do it, is further proof.
But if you claim that your tongue is an actual language, then why aren't you taking up my request? (unless you have a vested interest in keeping people in the dark about it)
I'm starting to see that it's pointless trying to discuss this issue with you, as you seem to be hostile to about everything I say. Is this the final conclusion I must come to, that conversing with you is an exercise in futility?
I can only speak for the AofG. No people are not taught to talk in tongues and yes it has everything to do with licenses. As I said, Benny Hinn was put out of the AofG for those type of tactics. Don't tell me you know different, I family that are pastors in the AofG, I grew up in it and was in ministry 20yrs. What other churches do I cannot speak to.
Nope totally skipped 'em.
That's up to the pastor of the church, not you, not me. And this is a discussion forum, no one has spiritual authority over anyone else here.
Bro. I was in traveling ministry over 20yrs. I left my home and was away for half the year. I didn't see family or friends or get to go to my home church. Sang and preached as a family in much of Canada and east to south in the US. Thanks for asking.
Still a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest.
Cast your gaze around, search this topic and you will find you are far from the first one here to make the very same arguments. Almost word for word. Yes, it's wearisome, it's been done to death here.
Lots is a general term. How many? Do you have facts backing this claim? If people fake something does that make everyone a fake? Does that make tongues fake? Because there are fakers? And no, they are not in my camp.
Bro, if it's not of God, jibberish or taught as you claim , then it has to be fake. No other choice is left open. You painted yourself into a corner, why would anything weigh on me? What other choice is there? Either it's fake or from God. smh
Umm look at the top of the page, what's it say? Discussion Forum. We don't come here for cake recipes Bro.
Maybe it wasn't, that doesn't mean everyone else had the experience you did.
And there we have it. Not of God. So who is it of? It's not fake so what is it of. If it's not of God, if it's not his spirit where is it from?! smh The blind man said " All I know is once I was blind and now I can see".
Don't waste your breath sister, he thinks he knows about Aog and other fellowships because he says he was taught wrong by them.
in fact, he ignores the statement of faith and the 16 fundamental truths they have listed on the AOG web page all backed by the word of God. He attacks those he disagrees with then tries to use linguists to validate the unbiblical position he has. Just a hater.
You provided a biblical context in which he just mocked and scoffed.
I am shocked he has not too you to be quiet because you are a woman.
Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out there is something wrong with the picture? There is a claim that modern tongues is miraculous, but with closer examination, there is nothing miraculous about it, only that it appears so, because it's mysterious. There is a claim that modern tongues is language, but with closer examination, there is only an appearance of language, but no language.
Is Acts 2 the example we have in scripture about it? Is Acts 2 the Biblical precedent to interpret all mention of tongues in the NT? If so, then authentic tongues is a language, and it is miraculous. And the only way to show that is to translate the message in it.
Is translating a language a process in which methodology is applied? Then how is translating tongues any different than translating scripture (except that it's unknown, so it has to be decoded) - unless it can't be translated because it's not really a language.
What I would like to know is if there is ANYONE who speaks a language they haven't learned. And the only way to find that out is to translate it. That's why it has to be recorded, transliterated, and evaluated to see if it has language structure in it. Because if it has no language structure, it can't convey meaning, then it's nothing but nonsense.
If we can find just one person out there who actually has the authentic gift, then this controversy is over. But so far I just haven't found one. So far, all claims of tongues as a miraculous language have been nothing but Big Fish stories.
I'm asking for proof that even just ONE person has the authentic gift. Are you that person? Do you know of one?
You just don't understand and don't want to.
If one relates personal experience you basically call them a liar and an unreliable witness (can I count on you to vouch to that for me next time I'm called for jury duty ; ) ).
True tongues are to be done in private and speaking to God only. Thus if one is speaking to a translator or a recording it is not true.
You want to see to believe. Trouble is, under faith, believing is to see.
Since you insist on putting the cart before the horse, yes, what you see/hear WILL be false.
I agree with scripture. But I'm not questioning what scripture teaches. I'm questioning the application of it to modern tongues. Can't you see that?
Your claim is that your tongues is the same thing that Paul was talking about, which is the same thing that the apostles had in Acts 2. Isn't this your claim?
Or do you redefine tongues and claim that what Paul was talking about in 1 Cor. 14 different in nature than Acts 2? I believe in Biblical precedence, that the description of the first instance or mention of something is key to interpreting subsequent mentions of it. Acts 2 is the Biblical precedent and key to interpreting what Paul was talking about in 1 Cor. 14. When he said "I speak in tongues more than you all," he was talking about languages that convey meaning. It means he was talking about speaking things with language structure.
So then when Paul wrote that one speaking in a tongue (that is, an authentic one like Acts 2), he speaks to God, he is still talking about speaking something that conveys meaning. And if tongues was designed to speak only to God, then why does Paul require that there be an interpretation (translation) of it in the church? If you are implying that tongues is for speaking only to God, then I'd say your implication is due to your P/C bias, because scripture doesn't say that or imply it.
Therefore, your statement that it "conveys a known message = to God", implying that no one else needs to know what the message is, is a cop-out. If you take a stand on this, because you refuse to do what I request, then my only recourse is to conclude that you have a vested interest in keeping people in the dark about it, just like every other P/C I've met.
Will you do what I request? (that's a yes/no)
I have nothing to add. You have obviously an different understanding.
I explained merely why I dont believe the pentecostal/charismatic teachings.
You said: "If we can find just one person out there who actually has the authentic gift, then this controversy is over. But so far I just haven't found one. So far, all claims of tongues as a miraculous language have been nothing but Big Fish stories."
Dear Brother, PLEASE listen to me and take no offense to what i say here, for i say this for your benefit and blessing.
Your statement above is an attack upon Scripture and even worse, you are on the precipice of calling the Holy Spirit a liar.
Stay CLOSE to JESUS and stay far away from that position of attack against the Word.
i BELEIVE you when you say there are counterfeits/fakes/false prophets and teachers out there = even in our midst.
BELIEVE the Holy Spirit:
Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God.
Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets so that the church may be edified
PEACE to and Blessing to You, TDidymas
This is your bias talking, so I forgive your insult.
I didn't call anyone a liar. If a person sincerely believes in what they are doing, they are not a liar, even if what they are doing is wrong. However, an unreliable witness they may be. Charismatics are historically notorious for Big Fish stories, so in general they are considered by the public as unreliable witnesses. I'm asking for forensic evidence. If you're unwilling to present it, then why reply here, unless you're upset that I question what you're doing?
Here is where our paths diverge. When Paul wrote that one speaking in a tongue speaks to God, he wasn't saying that tongues is designed to speak to God only. If that were the case, he would not be requiring an interpretation of it in the church, and saying that it will edify the church. Therefore, to claim that tongues is only for speaking to God is a cop-out from the challenge to interpret (translate) it. That idea is not supported in scripture.
To blindly believe something regardless of evidence is a cultic idea. Biblical faith is based on both scripture and evidence. I have no trouble believing the miracles described in scripture, as they are obvious. Not only is modern tongues NOT obviously miraculous, at close examination, the evidence shows otherwise.
This is also your bias talking. So here's my bias: I've been deceived so many times by religious people, I don't believe a word that comes out of their mouths. Unless, of course, it has the backing of scripture and evidence. Are you willing to back up what you say with evidence?
Actually, you're the one who is slandering me in this case. You are implying that YOUR INTERPRETATION of scripture is equal with scripture, and implying that because I question your practice of tongues, that I'm questioning the Holy Spirit. Can you see that there is something wrong with this picture? Your judgment is not based on scriptural truth, but rather on your experience and assumptions.
The fact that you say "take no offense," you are setting yourself up here for offense, because you inherently know that what you are about to say is offensive, and indeed it is. If I claimed that you were mocking the Holy Spirit, would that be offensive to you? But the truth of the matter is, that you are on the precipice of claiming that I'm blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Let's get real, this is what you really want to say, isn't it?
I'm not attacking the Word. I'm attacking P/C error.
Thank you, I was beginning to wonder.
Well, I wish I could speak in tongues (the real kind), interpret, and prophesy. But the Holy Spirit decides those things, not me.
Not one slander directed at you - only truth and love in Christ.
No interpretation of Scripture was given, nor is it necessary as Scripture speaks very clear on this subject.
Speaking in Tongues, as given by the Holy Spirit, is a Great Blessing and i am Thankful to God for it - Amen.
Praise God, I know when a true Miracle of God happens, it should be an awareness in our Spirit from the Holy Spirit that confirms it. I have been able to use this to present to non believers and share that God is Real not just for me, but for them as well. The one true Blessing is the local Farmers here that were a part of trying to help are Believers in God. So even for them, with Family Members that don't believe, this is a Testimony they not only can share, but several have driven past the Property so they can see in person for themselves.It was good that you were able to save your animals. Much of the time He may not seem to be there, but I've found that when I need Him most, He comes through. He is faithful...so I know that I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever!
The creator of the universe sent an angel to help you. Sounds to me like He cares about you. Not that He needs to prove it more!
Thanks for sharing your story and photos. The Lord's speaking to me through it.
It's a true Blessing from God to have Miracles for Testimonies because people can feel and sense the authenticity when you share it with them. It really moves people in person. And the fact you are able to sense it, seems like a greater Miracle that it can be felt through typed words and pictures.
Thank You!
There are many Gifts of the Holy Spirit and not anyone of us has them all. I really only have Discernment, Speaking in Tongues, some Knowledge, and portions of a couple others. So because I have the Gift of Speaking in Tongues does not mean you will. You could be Blessed with several Gifts I do not have. So don't be discouraged, because when I bring my gifts, You bring Your Gifts, Others bring their Gifts, Together we have All of the Gifts. And that is why the Body is Important because it takes us All Together to do really amazing things through God.