Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

[Phoneman-777]

Jesus FULFILLED all the laws requirement by his perfect obedience, taking upon himself the penalty and the curse of the law and with his dying rendered it inoperative for the believer (Rom.10:4-5; Heb. 8:13). To say one is going to keep the Old Testament law because of requirement is to ignore the work that Christ did in our place in the New Testament covenant.

As far as the word “FULFILL” which many abuse, it does not mean to continue or reinforce. Matthew consistently used the word FULFILL in a specific manner, once something is FULFILLED there is not a future FULFILLMENT. He quotes Isa.7:14 for the FULFILLMENT of the virgin birth. Where he was to be born Micah 5:2, there is no awaiting for this to re occur in the future. To FULFILL something means to bring it to a completion. It is used consistently this way through Matthews gospel (Mt.2:17,23, 12:17, 13:13,35, 27:9,35)

Here are a few examples: Matt 2:15 “and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be FULFILLED which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”

Matt 8:17 “that it might be FULFILLED which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: “He Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.”

Matt 21:4-5 “All this was done that it might be FULFILLED which was spoken by the prophet, saying: “Tell the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your King is coming to you, lowly, and sitting on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.’“

Matt 26:56 “But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be FULFILLED.” Then all the disciples forsook Him and fled.

All the Scriptures that Matthew writes about being FULFILLED all mean a completion of something that is said. That something was prophesied or written and he FULFILLED it or made it happen, bringing it to its end, having it come to pass.

So, do you agree with me that when Jesus said He came to "fulfill the law", He didn't mean "do away with the Ten Commandments" as is popularly taught?

 

[BroTan]

Jesus FULFILLED all the laws requirement by his perfect obedience, taking upon himself the penalty and the curse of the law and with his dying rendered it inoperative for the believer (Rom.10:4-5; Heb. 8:13). To say one is going to keep the Old Testament law because of requirement is to ignore the work that Christ did in our place in the New Testament covenant.

As far as the word “FULFILL” which many abuse, it does not mean to continue or reinforce. Matthew consistently used the word FULFILL in a specific manner, once something is FULFILLED there is not a future FULFILLMENT. He quotes Isa.7:14 for the FULFILLMENT of the virgin birth. Where he was to be born Micah 5:2, there is no awaiting for this to re occur in the future. To FULFILL something means to bring it to a completion. It is used consistently this way through Matthews gospel (Mt.2:17,23, 12:17, 13:13,35, 27:9,35)

Here are a few examples: Matt 2:15 “and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be FULFILLED which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”

Matt 8:17 “that it might be FULFILLED which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: “He Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.”

Matt 21:4-5 “All this was done that it might be FULFILLED which was spoken by the prophet, saying: “Tell the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your King is coming to you, lowly, and sitting on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.’“

Matt 26:56 “But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be FULFILLED.” Then all the disciples forsook Him and fled.

All the Scriptures that Matthew writes about being FULFILLED all mean a completion of something that is said. That something was prophesied or written and he FULFILLED it or made it happen, bringing it to its end, having it come to pass.

I'm sorry but that incorrect. Let's go to Isaiah 11:2, And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

Now in Matthew 3:16, And Jesus, when he was baptized, went straightway out the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

Let's go to Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Notice Jesus didn’t mention that last piece in Isaiah 61:2 and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; because this referrers to Jesus second coming. This part has not been fulfilled yet.

 

[BroTan]

You should try reading all of God's word instead of cherry picking what suits you. Lord Jesus fulfilled the Law already. He said on the cross, "It is finished". Galatians makes it clear what legalism is and where it leads to. Unless, of course, you are not yet saved. In which case, you are under the law.

1 Timothy 1:7-9

They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert. Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. We (but not you) realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers,…

That's a pretty backwards thing to say to me, but it's pretty common for people in your unknowledgeable position. Let's go to Isaiah 11:2, And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

In Matthew 3:16, And Jesus, when he was baptized, went straightway out the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

Let's go to Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Notice Jesus didn’t mention that last piece in Isaiah 61:2 and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; because this referrers to Jesus second coming. This part has not been fulfilled yet.

Again Jesus says in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus says in (Luke 24:44) And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Here Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled. Knowing that all things must be fulfilled by Jesus, as long as heaven and earth is still here, tells us that the law (Commandments) are still here as well and must be kept.

 

[TMS]

All the Scriptures that Matthew writes about being FULFILLED all mean a completion of something that is said. That something was prophesied or written and he FULFILLED it or made it happen, bringing it to its end, having it come to pass.

fulfil in matt 5:17 = plēroō
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

to make replete = filled, stuffed, jammed, crammed, or to make full

the meaning can be to finish or end, but that would not make sense with the verse and context.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (end) or (make full).
I didn't come to destroy the law i came to end it. that doesn't make sense.
and the next verse helps to clarify that point as well.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Fulfilled in verse 18 = ginomai = It isn't the same as verse 17......
be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married,

 

[Gideon300]

That's a pretty backwards thing to say to me, but it's pretty common for people in your unknowledgeable position. Let's go to Isaiah 11:2, And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

In Matthew 3:16, And Jesus, when he was baptized, went straightway out the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

Let's go to Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Notice Jesus didn’t mention that last piece in Isaiah 61:2 and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; because this referrers to Jesus second coming. This part has not been fulfilled yet.

Again Jesus says in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus says in (Luke 24:44) And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Here Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled. Knowing that all things must be fulfilled by Jesus, as long as heaven and earth is still here, tells us that the law (Commandments) are still here as well and must be kept.

So you accept only the gospels and reject the rest of the New Testament? Good luck with keeping the law. Not even Paul, with his near perfect Pharisee credentials, could do that.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

From reading the Bible with Holy Spirit discernment and with my eyes open:

• The Unmerciful Servant who was fully forgiven of his impossible debt but ended up owing the full amount.
• The enlightened ones who partook of the Holy Spirit but fell away no more to repent and proceeded to "crucify the Son of God afresh"
• Those who escaped the pollutions of the world but again became entangled therein and wound up in worse condition than they were when they were lost
• The "many" Christians who wound up lost because they allowed abounding iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead, in contrast to those who will "endure to the end" and will be saved.
• The Christian branches that failed to continuously abide in the Vine and were cast into the fire
• The Salt (Christians) of the earth that loses it's savor and can no more have its saltiness restored.
• Clean Christians who become defiled and lost like Esau who sought repentance with tears, but found it not.
• Those who willfully sin after having not merely heard but received a knowledge of the truth and turn back to sin.
• Those Ezekiel says will "die in their sins" because they turned from righteousness, resulting in none of it being remembered.

Boss: "Hey, Phoneman-777, where's Steve?
Me: "I haven't seen him."
Boss: "You're fired, you liar. I say you talking to him earlier at the safety meeting."
Me: "Boss, I see you been talking with Everlasting-Grace, haven't you?"

Commentators say the Greek verbs refer to "continue to see" and "continue to know". A child of God who turns his back on Him and again surrenders his heart to Satan is one who will not have "seen" or "known" God since he turned away.
Did you notice what Jesus did not say?
He did not say "ALL in that day..."
He said "MANY in that day..." which does not account for "ALL" who will stand lost before Him, does it?

Yes, there will be many in that day who never surrendered their heart to Jesus, but preached, cast out demons, and did great things by the power of Satan, only to find out the truth in the end.
HOWEVER, THIS SAME JESUS PLAINLY SAYS IN MATTHEW 24:12-13 KJV THAT "MANY" SAINTLY RECIPIENTS OF AGAPE WILL ALLOW INIQUITY TO KILL IT COLD AND DEAD, while reiterating that only they that "shall endure to the end" will be saved. Those "many" will stand just as guilty before God in that day as they who never knew Him.

Whoever eats this bread will live forever.

Your right not all. Because not everyone who does works does them in order to maintain or gain salvation.

You on the other hand have to worry.

Again, John also said whoever leaves the churhc in unbelief was never part of the church,

Jesus does not lie. He is God.

when he says people will never die he means it
when he says they will live forever he means it
when he says as long as I live you will, he means it
when he says he will never let you go, he means it

I would trust Jesus personally if I were you. And stop trusting in yourself.

When it comes to being worthy of salvation. God has a standard. That standard is perfection. On judgment day. No one will have met that standard. So they will have to rely on their works. And when ones works are tried. They are found lacking. Because they are GUILTY, and because their WORK has not made up for their guilt.

Sin can only be redeemed by the blood. There is no other solution.

 

[Grandpa]

"Let him who stole steal no more."
"Honor you father and your mother, which is the first commandment with promise."

Here's a couple of the Ten Commandments Paul tells you and I to observe, right or wrong?

Yes. Those are things Paul said.

You extrapolate from that that Paul commands to work at the 10 commandments?


This is what Paul said just before those two statements;

Ephesians 4:23-24
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Working at the 10 commandments don't cause that.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.




We don't lie, we don't steal, we honour our mother and father, we don't worship any gods but the One True God. Not because we are working at commandments. Because we are abiding in Christ. And the fruit of the Spirit cause us to walk this way.

Once we turn away from Christ, and start working at our interpretation of what we think the Law says, we become like the Pharisees and have to make up all kinds of rules for how to do those things the law says.


Take stealing, for example. To feel as if you're following the law you just don't take other peoples things. But there are lots of different ways to steal. You can overcharge for things that you sell. You can put a surcharge on things that other people sell. You can mis-report on how much time you spent on a job. You can receive something for free that you weren't supposed to receive as free. Even withholding charity could be a form of stealing.

You can feel as if you are righteous according to the law and not be Righteous at all. If you ever do feel righteous according to the law it just means you don't really understand the law. You missed something important.

The closest we ever come to being Righteous according to the Law is when we come to Christ and receive Rest from our work at trying to be righteous according to the law. Being given the Righteousness of Christ far outweighs any righteousness we think we have achieved by our own work.

Philippians 3:8-9
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:




If we point back to the Law and say "You have to do this because the Law says so" we are misleading people. That is a way to use the Rod to correct your own version of what you think is incorrect behaviour. That is NOT the way hearts and minds are changed.

If we point to Christ and say "Come to Christ to receive forgiveness of sin and Eternal Life" we are actually being edifying. We are giving them the solution for their problems that we don't even know about. Their secret problems. Secret from us. Not secret from the Lord. That is the Way hearts and minds are changed. By God.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




There is still time. God Willing.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[Grandpa]

Here Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled. Knowing that all things must be fulfilled by Jesus, as long as heaven and earth is still here, tells us that the law (Commandments) are still here as well and must be kept.

If one jot or one tittle from the law has changed then ALL is fulfilled.

Do you still stone a person for breaking any of Moses Law? Certainly those are jots or tittles?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


If we accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our High Priest then we MUST accept that He has fulfilled ALL. Because that means at least some of the jots and tittles passed from the law...


Or, we are calling the Lord Jesus a Liar or Paul a false Prophet.


I understand this will be difficult for you to understand and accept.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Whoever eats this bread will live forever.

Your right not all. Because not everyone who does works does them in order to maintain or gain salvation.

You on the other hand have to worry.

Again, John also said whoever leaves the churhc in unbelief was never part of the church,

Jesus does not lie. He is God.

when he says people will never die he means it
when he says they will live forever he means it
when he says as long as I live you will, he means it
when he says he will never let you go, he means it

I would trust Jesus personally if I were you. And stop trusting in yourself.

When it comes to being worthy of salvation. God has a standard. That standard is perfection. On judgment day. No one will have met that standard. So they will have to rely on their works. And when ones works are tried. They are found lacking. Because they are GUILTY, and because their WORK has not made up for their guilt.

Sin can only be redeemed by the blood. There is no other solution.

Yes, I'd believe as you do if I ignored the other texts of Scripture. James says good preaching saves souls from death, which would not be possible if souls were immortal. When Jesus says the righteous "will never die" He means "die the Second Death".
Proof?

11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, THOUGH HE WERE DEAD, yet shall he live (again at the resurrection): ​

11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die (the Second Death). Believest thou this? ​

You see, context and consistent interpretation preserves Scriptural harmony, unlike "immortal soul" doctrine. Jesus' mention of "though he were dead" proves souls are subject to death, and the next verse establishes the kind of death to which the righteous soul is subject to: the First Death...because only God is immortal:

"Who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who only hath immortality." - 2 Timothy 6:16 KJV​

​

And, immortality is only the promised gift of those who "seek" for it, and we never "seek" for that which we already have, right or wrong?

"To them who by patient continuing in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality: eternal life." -- Romans 2:7 KJV​

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, I'd believe as you do if I ignored the other texts of Scripture. James says good preaching saves souls from death, which would not be possible if souls were immortal. When Jesus says the righteous "will never die" He means "die the Second Death".
Proof?

11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live (again at the resurrection): ​

11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die (the Second Death). Believest thou this? ​

You see, context and consistent interpretation preserves Scriptural harmony, while Scriptural pretexts and partiality of application introduce the massive confusion that is the doctrine of the "immortal soul" doctrine.

"Who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who only hath immortality." - 2 Timothy 6:16 KJV​

​

And, immortality is only the promised gift of those who "seek" for it, and we never "seek" for that which we already have, right or wrong?

"To them who by patient continuing in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality: eternal life." -- Romans 2:7 KJV​

Nah, You would never believe as I do. You can’t get past your works. You have to get rid of a lot of pride. And a lot of self righteousness to believe as I do

 

[Phoneman-777]

Yes. Those are things Paul said.

You extrapolate from that that Paul commands to work at the 10 commandments?

Along with the ones I mentioned, he also says we ought not worship other gods, blaspheme, engage in idolatry, so that's five total. And, since you can't prove that Paul didn't write Hebrews, I can add to that list, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" in Hebrews 4:9 (Lamsa's Peshitta).

Let's not be willfully ignorant of the truth, OK? Paul more than plainly upheld the Ten Commandments in the NT, as did the other NT writers, and the fact they are grievous to you should indicate something about your relationship with God, right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Nah, You would never believe as I do. You can’t get past your works. You have to get rid of a lot of pride. And a lot of self righteousness to believe as I do

My inability to believe as you do is made so by only one thing: I don't cherry pick verses.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

My inability to believe as you do is made so by only one thing: I don't cherry pick verses.

You just make verses say things they don’t say

you also cause them to contradict other verses

no humility

 

[Phoneman-777]

You just make verses say things they don’t say

you also cause them to contradict other verses

no humility

Surely, you can cite at least one instance, can't you?

 

[BroTan]

If one jot or one tittle from the law has changed then ALL is fulfilled.

Do you still stone a person for breaking any of Moses Law? Certainly those are jots or tittles?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


If we accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our High Priest then we MUST accept that He has fulfilled ALL. Because that means at least some of the jots and tittles passed from the law...


Or, we are calling the Lord Jesus a Liar or Paul a false Prophet.


I understand this will be difficult for you to understand and accept.

Those are two different laws you just posted, but you should know that, if go back read the prophet Moses. In Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. This law Jesus is talking about is the Commandments, the Royal law.

The other law you post from Hebrew 7 Chapter is referring to the Priesthood laws, which includes the animal sacrificial laws as well.
Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

(v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

 

[BroTan]

So you accept only the gospels and reject the rest of the New Testament? Good luck with keeping the law. Not even Paul, with his near perfect Pharisee credentials, could do that.

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Which mean we can do as we please when we please! People we must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. But now you are going to try and convince yourselves that the creator of the world has no laws by which we must live.

 

[Grandpa]

Along with the ones I mentioned, he also says we ought not worship other gods, blaspheme, engage in idolatry, so that's five total. And, since you can't prove that Paul didn't write Hebrews, I can add to that list, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" in Hebrews 4:9 (Lamsa's Peshitta).

Let's not be willfully ignorant of the truth, OK? Paul more than plainly upheld the Ten Commandments in the NT, as did the other NT writers, and the fact they are grievous to you should indicate something about your relationship with God, right or wrong?

That is your very bad interpretation.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Then verse 10 describes what that rest is;

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


You can't turn rest into working at the law. Unless you have an AGENDA and twist many more scriptures to fit that bad philosophy.


The 10 commandments aren't grievous to me. I've been delivered from that. I've come to Christ and received Rest.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


This is just a small example of scripture that must be ignored or twisted in order to turn the Rest described in Hebrews 4 into working at the Law.

 

[EnglishChick]

Amen! Jesus fulfilled it all on the cross.

We are no longer subject to sins or hell. He has fulfilled the law so we can rule and reign with Him forever

 

[EnglishChick]

Jesus is our Sabbath rest. He has fulfilled the shadows (the law ) and made us one with Him, Jew or gentile, slave or free, woman or man

 

[Grandpa]

Those are two different laws you just posted, but you should know that, if go back read the prophet Moses. In Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. This law Jesus is talking about is the Commandments, the Royal law.

The other law you post from Hebrew 7 Chapter is referring to the Priesthood laws, which includes the animal sacrificial laws as well.
Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

(v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

The Law is one big WHOLE. It cannot be broken up into parts and some parts be done away and other parts stay.

Otherwise, whenever the Lord or any of the Prophets talked about a Law, they would have to state which Law they were talking about and which Law they were going to fulfill.

You should have kept going in Hebrews 10, it would have told you this as well.

Hebrews 10:15-22
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant (The New Covenant) that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.


Is Hebrews 10:16 talking about putting Priest and animal sacrifice Laws into people hearts and minds???? No. Of course not.

The Law is, first and foremost, the 10 commandments. Then it is all the laws that support the 10 commandments. Which includes Levitical Law, animal sacrifice and even feasts.


Otherwise, you have the Lord fulfilling Levitical Law and animal sacrifice but leaving people under the 10 commandments. And you have the Lord mis-speaking in Matthew 5. The Lord should have said, in your philosophy and bad interpretation, "not one jot or one tittle shall fall from the 10 commandments until all is fulfilled".

But the Lord didn't say that. He said not one jot or tittle shall fall from the Law, until all is fulfilled.


So this is a BIG PROBLEM for you. On the one hand, you HAVE to say the Lord DID NOT fuflill the Law He was talking about in Matt 5. And yet you have Him ABSOLUTELY fulfilling the Levitical and animal sacrifice laws.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Was the Law fulfilled? Did the Lord succeed in what He came to do?

Was it just a weird coincidence that the Lord fulfilled ALL the Law, except, in your wrong philosophy, the 10 commandments?


VERY STRANGE if the Lord meant He was only fulfilling Levitical law and animal sacrifice but immediately talked about the commandments. Especially saying not one jot or one tittle shall fall when the entire Levitical and animal sacrifice laws have changed.

Seems pretty dishonest to continue to twist scripture when this is pointed out to you.