Soul sleep is a false doctrine

[ewq1938]

You're the one making the mistake and can't see it though it's right in front of your eyes.

Lazarus was DEAD! You say he wasn't.

Of course he was dead but that is a physical reference. The soul was not dead. Souls are never said to be dead or sleeping. Everytime they are described or mentioned, they are alive and alert. Nevermind that though, believe in something not found in the bible.

 

[peldom10]

You should be the one studying since you are "dead wrong" pun intended:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

In otherwords disciples made the same mistake you are making.


Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

You are wrong.

Christ was correcting them in that they were referring to dead vs Christ referring to Laz sleeping.

Know what scripture means before putting new age religion bunk as fact.

 

[peldom10]

By your understanding of death, he was only physically wrong, not spiritually wrong. IOW, he wasn't wrong at all.

God bless you all. You're going to believe what you want. I'm out.

That is what the new age religion movement is all about, Wear them down ...even with un facts or un truths...and maybe they will go away.
I am here to stay to profess God's word. It speaks for it's self.

 

[peldom10]

Of course he was dead but that is a physical reference. The soul was not dead. Souls are never said to be dead or sleeping. Everytime they are described or mentioned, they are alive and alert. Nevermind that though, believe in something not found in the bible.

What do you think we speak of when dead....not the body...it is the soul...(.geeessssccchhh)....for anyone who has spent time with scriptures at all.
The reason I said...study scriptures.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What do you think we speak of when dead....not the body...it is the soul

Souls and spirits are imperishable. Death occurs when they are separated from the body, and the body eventually returns to dust. So mortality is applicable only to the body.

 

[TMS]

Souls and spirits are imperishable. Death occurs when they are separated from the body, and the body eventually returns to dust. So mortality is applicable only to the body.

Satan teaches that the soul is imortal. but the bible tells us that only God has imortality.
If you believe there is no death for peoples character and that life goes on in another form you have swallowed the lie hook, line and sinker.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

 

[ewq1938]

You are wrong.

Christ was correcting them in that they were referring to dead vs Christ referring to Laz sleeping.

You have it backwards. They thought Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping, but he meant that he was dead.

 

[TMS]

When you understand soul sleep you realise that death is compete death and you have no consciousness in any way while you are dead. but the term sleep is used because all will wake up, in the first or second resurrection.
The time for an unconscious dead person is unknown so it will be like a second from death to the resurrection. If 1000 years go by or if 3000 years pass while you are dead it will be the same. The thing that counts is what we do/believe before we die which will determine which resurrection we experience.

So it doesn't make much difference in regards to time what you believe, because for the dead person both beliefs think that you are alive quickly after you die (one as a spirit, the other with the resurrection). If you accept that the dead are now living in a different form it will affect your experience now, it does make a difference.
If the dead are completely dead they can't influence us.
If the dead are not really dead but alive in another form their is a possibility that the dead can speak to us and influence our lives. This leaves a huge door open for Satan and his demons to influence us (the spirits talked to me and told me to do ....., my dead father talked to me and told me ......) Can you see the way Satan can use this belief to lie and control us.

The only Spirits that can communicate with us is the demons or Gods and his holy angels.

 

[ewq1938]

What do you think we speak of when dead....not the body...it is the soul...(.geeessssccchhh)....for anyone who has spent time with scriptures at all.
The reason I said...study scriptures.

The soul is never said to have died. Not one verse says that. You need to study scripture and get rid of this false unbiblical doctrine.

 

[ewq1938]

Satan teaches that the soul is imortal. but the bible tells us that only God has imortality.
If you believe there is no death for peoples character and that life goes on in another form you have swallowed the lie hook, line and sinker.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

That is a reference to a dead body not anyone's soul.

The souls of the dead are clearly alive:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Satan teaches that the soul is immortal.

Satan does not teach anything. It is God and Christ who have revealed to us that souls and spirits do not perish, or disappear, or get annihilated, or go six feet under, upon death.

Were Stephen's spirit and soul imperishable? If not how could he ask Christ to receive his spirit when the Bible says that he fell asleep after his stoning? Does anyone fall asleep if they are stoned? Or is that not a metaphor for physical death? But while His body was buried with great mourning, his soul and spirit were safely with Christ in Heaven. Kindly WAKE UP and study Acts 7 and 8. Those are the words of God, not the teaching of Satan (who has nothing to offer). Then we have the teaching of Paul telling us very clearly that to be absent from the body (physical death) is to be present with the Lord (in Heaven). Looks like you hate the idea of being in Heaven after you die.

 

[Runningman]

That is what the new age religion movement is all about, Wear them down ...even with un facts or un truths...and maybe they will go away.
I am here to stay to profess God's word. It speaks for it's self.

I don't know. At some point it's pointless to counsel blind and deaf people. Some people just have their mind made up and either can't or won't see/hear anything else. As you can tell from the title of this thread, someone is here looking for a fight. At this point pride and ego is on the line, too. This thread leads with baited words that soul sleep is a false doctrine; of course that's going to provoke some responses. As you can see from reading through this thread, some are not open to verses like 1 Thess. 4:14, Rev. 6:11, or Rev. 14:13 that teach soul sleep point blank, especially when the Greek words are observed.

This is not uncommon, we often see that the stratagem of those who hold a false doctrine is to deploy tactics of intellectual dishonesty such as rejecting overwhelming evidence while continuing to advocate for their position long after it has been debunked.

I applaud you for staying here and taking a stance for truth. Please let me know if I can pray for you. Actually, anyone who reads this can ask me for prayer.

 

[peldom10]

The soul is never said to have died. Not one verse says that. You need to study scripture and get rid of this false unbiblical doctrine.

No one said the soul dies....keep up if you are going to contribute.

 

[ewq1938]

No one said the soul dies....keep up if you are going to contribute.

Take your own advice. You are wrong. This thread has had some posts about the soul being dead.

 

[JTB]

As best I can describe it, man has flesh, man has spirit, and where the two interlap forms the soul.

To understand what happens at death one must understand the relationship of time and eternity. There is no "Time Line". Rather, consider it to be like a wheel - with God/eternity in the hub and time running along the rim. God's interaction with time is like lacing a wheel. Run a spoke from the hub to the rim at the 12 o'clock position. Then another at 8. Then another at 4. And so on. This way we can see how God is able to interact with all of time, at all of the time.

Today you'll be with me in paradise - but your body will lay waiting for resurrection. How does that work? When you die, your spirit is immediately caught up to be with God, at the point of Christ's return. That your-ticket-is-punched moment is your rapture. As such, even tho our bodies die at different times, our spirits all arrive before Jesus at the same time. Which in His realm is as He returns.

On earth, on the rim, our bodies lay rotting in time for resurrection. Finally, on the rim's last day, Jesus resurrects them to be with Him when He returns.

Now, if our spirits arrive when He returns, and our bodies arrive when He returns, then even tho our bodies rot for years on the rim, in the hub we were never without it. Thus while on the rim, there was no interlapping of flesh and spirit to form a soul, and in that sense the soul slept; in heaven our souls never ceased as our spirits and flesh arrive at same time.

 

[Nehemiah6]

No one said the soul dies....keep up if you are going to contribute.

You just have to go back several posts to see that someone has in fact said that, and I have provided a rebuttal. Man is a tripartite being -- body, soul and spirit, Scripture reverses that order and speaks of spirit, soul, and body. The spirit and soul are (1) distinct from each other, (2) very closely connected, and (3) imperishable or eternal. Physical death is the separation of the body from the soul and spirit.

The Second Death is eternal separation of body and soul from God (since the spirits of the unsaved are in fact "dead"). Upon death the saved go directly to Heaven to be with Christ, whereas the unsaved go directly to Hades to await their final judgment. Therefore both Purgatory and Soul Sleep are false doctrines. And those who claim that no one goes to Heaven simply display their ignorance.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Also, for the record, there are core tenants to the soul-sleep theology that define it and I don’t agree with all of them. Actually, some of the official stances of soul-sleep are unbiblical, but the general idea that a soul can and does take a rest or sleep is solid Bible; that much is certain.

So you aren't really arguing for Soul Sleep then. As the doctrine is known and understood.
You are simply speculating that the souls of the departed dead might have some form of sleep in the spirit-realm?

John 11:13
13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

So the disciples think it’s possible to rest in sleep but you don’t? 🤔

Then when the soul is resting, why can’t it optionally sleep too? Nothing is this thread has ruled out soul sleep.

The physical body needs sleep. The brain is an organ which will suffer from sleep depravation.
The soul is not such an organism. 'Rest' for the soul doesn't require periods of unconscious rejuvination.
You may imagine that it does. IMO none of the verses you've cited back up that idea though.

Perhaps you should call this idea something other than - Soul Sleep. Which is a well-known false doctrine.

 

[Runningman]

So you aren't really arguing for Soul Sleep then. As the doctrine is known and understood.
You are simply speculating that the souls of the departed dead might have some form of sleep in the spirit-realm?

Yeah pretty much. I believe the departed dead can sleep.

The physical body needs sleep. The brain is an organ which will suffer from sleep depravation.

The soul is not such an organism. 'Rest' for the soul doesn't require periods of unconscious rejuvenation.
You may imagine that it does.

What verses say that believers "have no rest day or night" when they go to be with the Lord? Or is that a reference to those who go to the lake of fire.

Now, which verses say that the departed dead can have rest in the afterlife?

IMO none of the verses you've cited back up that idea though.

Which verses do you use to support this idea:

"Rest' for the soul doesn't require periods of unconscious rejuvenation.
You may imagine that it does."

An honest analysis of sola scriptura shows there's more evidence for rest in the afterlife than not.

Perhaps you should call this idea something other than - Soul Sleep. Which is a well-known false doctrine.

Soul Sleep is a misnomer. The doctrine I'm talking about it appropriately named because it posits what the name suggests. The Soul Sleep doctrine that most people think of is actually riddled with heresies, mine isn't. They should change theirs, just saying.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Yeah pretty much. I believe the departed dead can sleep.





What verses say that believers "have no rest day or night" when they go to be with the Lord? Or is that a reference to those who go to the lake of fire.

Now, which verses say that the departed dead can have rest in the afterlife?



Which verses do you use to support this idea:

"Rest' for the soul doesn't require periods of unconscious rejuvenation.
You may imagine that it does."

An honest analysis of sola scriptura shows there's more evidence for rest in the afterlife than not.



Soul Sleep is a misnomer. The doctrine I'm talking about it appropriately named because it posits what the name suggests. The Soul Sleep doctrine that most people think of is actually riddled with heresies, mine isn't. They should change theirs, just saying.

Perhaps they should but you're playing the Maverick in this case.
The 'soul sleep' term is established.

 

[ewq1938]

Soul Sleep is a misnomer. The doctrine I'm talking about it appropriately named because it posits what the name suggests. The Soul Sleep doctrine that most people think of is actually riddled with heresies, mine isn't. They should change theirs, just saying.

Yours is really more like, "soul rest" which no one would disagree with. Taking that to "soul sleep" is problematic because it relies upon one concordance's use of "repose" which some dictionaries say includes sleep, while other dictionaries do not say it means sleep. It all depends on how James Strong intended it to mean. Thayer certainly doesn't use any language that suggests sleep. I think rest is just that, rest. Especially when the rest is a rest from a stressful activity like being upset regarding when murders would be avenged which is the context of Revelation 6.