I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.

[Nehemiah6]

So Michael is your God? Michael is not Jesus! You've been duped!

It is a perverse fact of life that some people -- maybe too many people -- love being duped. Just look at all the masked bandits on the streets and in the stores! Masks are totally useless against a virus, but almost everyone has gone along with this hoax.

There have been many hoaxes in the past as well as very recently. And each time a whole bunch of people loved it. Some say that this is because critical thinking is not a part of modern education. Then you have all the indoctrination and the brainwashing by the universities and colleges, the mainstream media, the Leftist politicians, and the cultist groups. However, if anyone sincerely wants the truth and hungers for the truth, God will show it to him or her. But there must be a desire to forsake the lies and cling to the truth alone.

 

[tourist]

Here are a couple of questions. Do you think Jesus is going to come back on the seventh day of the week? If so, why? Doesn't SDA imply that?

Also, is there any Biblical reason to think that wearing wigs is unhealthy?

Even Jesus himself does not know when he will return as only the Father knows this.

 

[tourist]

@unelie

I read this attributed to EG White,

"Let a Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband.'

and this,

"The colored people should not urge that the placed on an equality with white people." Testimonies Vol. 8. p. 214.

Do you agree with these statements?

I certainly don't but everything Ellen White wrote is not the official doctrine or practice of the SDA.

 

[ewq1938]

Even Jesus himself does not know when he will return as only the Father knows this.

He said that before the cross. It is unlikely he still does not know.

 

[tourist]

He said that before the cross. It is unlikely he still does not know.

Haven't seen any scripture that implies that Jesus, having risen from the dead, now knows the time that He will return. Either way, I'm Ok with it.

 

[ewq1938]

Haven't seen any scripture that implies that Jesus, having risen from the dead, now knows the time that He will return. Either way, I'm Ok with it.

Didn't he tell John?

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The 7th trump is the second coming and here Jesus has shown John that when the two prophets are killed, 3.5 days later is the second coming. We could even go to the start of the 42 months and the appearance of the beast to know there is 42 months until that 7th trump second coming.

I believe Christ knew nothing of this when he walked the Earth which is why he didn't speak of 42 months, the deaths of the two prophets and the 3.5 days being dead before they raised from the dead and the same hour the 7th trump sounded. Those things only come from Christ after he ascended which is pretty solid evidence he does now know the time of his coming.

 

[presidente]

I'm not sure I understand the question.
Yes we believe Michael is one of the names of Jesus, and Jesus is God, so does it answer your question?

(it's weird to say "Micheal is my God", for me it's similar to say "Emmanuel is my God", or *the Son of Man is my God", or "the Way is my God"... Technically true, but weird phrasing, but it's just my personal opinion)

There is not much at all to pin this idea onto.

There is an old idea that some of the 'angel of the Lord' passages refer to Christ. But the Bible also says , 'To which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son. This day have I begotten thee." Hebrews mentions this in the discussion of the superiority of Christ to the angels.

Assuming Michael is Christ is a guess at best. There is not much to base the argument on.

And the prince of Persia is not deity. If the SDA is wrong and Michael is an angel and not Christ, isn't it blasphemy to call him Christ?

 

[posthuman]

Even Jesus himself does not know when he will return as only the Father knows this.

that is wedding language.

the Hebrew betrothal ceremony has 12 steps, from the father choosing a bride, paying a price for her, to the groom snatching her away at a secret time after preparing a place for her in his father's house, having a feast and consumating the marriage.
part of that ancient ceremony is that the father of the groom sets the appointed time, and the son directs any inquiries about the day or hour to him by saying 'only the father knows'

this saying is not indicating that Christ - who is equally omniscient God and never was not - is unaware of the appointed times and seasons.
this saying is placing salvation in a wedding context. the Jews who heard Him say this would have recognized it and understood it, but we weirdly think this means God isn't God because we don't have the background to comprehend it correctly.
the Hebrew betrothal process is all over scripture. it's why He gave the parable of the foolish & wise virgins, waiting for the groom to arrive in the middle of the night, saying the kingdom is like this.

 

[posthuman]

He said that before the cross. It is unlikely he still does not know.

it is wedding language; it does not mean that God is not omniscient.
the 12 steps of the ancient Hebrew betrothal process are commonly listed in several variations, but here is the gist:

1. the father chooses the bride for the son
2. a price for the bride is set
3. the bride and groom are legally betrothed
4. a marriage contract is established
5. the bride gives her consent
6. the bride is given gifts as a surety and the couple shares a cup of wine, sealing the contract
7. the bride is ritually washed, being submerged in a mikveh
8. the groom departs and prepares a place in his fathers house for the bride
9. the bride is consecrated and waits. the groom is at work making ready. the father sets the day and hour, and it is kept secret from the bride and her friends. if anyone asks about the time, it is said 'only the father knows'
10. at the appointed time a shofar is blown with a shout, 'behold the bridegroom comes!'
11. the groom appears and abducts the bride, taking her to his father's house - usually in the middle of the night
12. there is a great feast, and the consumation of the marriage

 

[unelie]

@unelie

I read this attributed to EG White,
"Let a Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband.'
...
Do you agree with these statements?

Yes I agree. We all should refrain to behave like animals or excite others (male or female) to do so. I guess there is something schoking there for you, but Idk what. I read this passage recently in a book, and I think it is very insightful. However I am not married yet

I can talk more about this quote, but basically, this is clear that she supports equality and respect between genders. I can post quotes about that if anyone is interested.

@unelie
and this,
"The colored people should not urge that the placed on an equality with white people." Testimonies Vol. 8. p. 214.
Do you agree with these statements?

(btw, the quote is not from volume 8 but from volume 9, but it is a correct quote)

Hum, she was living during the American civil war. When she makes this statement, she is simply advocating for peace, and preparing the way for allowing the church unity. Therefore, I agree. Like, don't get violent about these things, let's work toward it as peacefully as possible, to avoid complete division of the church through skin color lines. This is shocking for some ppl, but I am black and I fully agree, because of my belief in peaceful solutions and human need to be together. War is not always avoidable, but if it can be, we should always be part of that.

She is very strong on equality, she supported the liberation of black slaves, refusal of sending back slaves to their owner (in contradiction to the law at the time), and supported the access to higher education and equal salary for black people.

For example, she wrote :

No distinction on account of nationality, race, or caste, is recognized by God. He is the Maker of all mankind. All men are of one family by creation, and all are one through redemption. Christ came to demolish every wall of partition, to throw open every compartment of the temple, that every soul may have free access to God.... In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free. All are brought nigh by His precious blood.
The Lord has looked with sadness upon that most pitiful of all sights, the colored race in slavery. He desires us, in our work for them, to remember their providential deliverance from slavery, their common relationship to us by creation and by redemption, and their right to the blessings of freedom.
The religion of the Bible recognizes no caste or color. It ignores rank, wealth, worldly honor. God estimates men as men.

Quote from : Second Volume of Selected Messages, p. 486 (see https://egwwritings.org/?ref=en_2SM.486 )

 

[unelie]

everything Ellen White wrote is not the official doctrine or practice of the SDA.

This is true.
I would just add that Ellen White is officially recognized by our Church for her prophetic gift.

The following is quoted from our "fundamental belief". I should note that these beliefs are NOT disciplinary. If you don't belief that, you can still be Seventh-Day Adventist, it's fine. This is simply our most common belief and the teaching of our institution/administration, not the actual belief of all our theologians and members.

[Ellen G. White's] writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.) (source : https://www.adventist.org/gift-of-prophecy/ )

 

[unelie]

There is not much at all to pin this idea onto.

There is an old idea that some of the 'angel of the Lord' passages refer to Christ. But the Bible also says , 'To which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son. This day have I begotten thee." Hebrews mentions this in the discussion of the superiority of Christ to the angels.

Assuming Michael is Christ is a guess at best. There is not much to base the argument on.

I disagree. I believe it is rigorous interpretation of prophecy.

And the prince of Persia is not deity. If the SDA is wrong and Michael is an angel and not Christ, isn't it blasphemy to call him Christ?

To ask "if X is wrong" is problematic to me. I don't want to think in the direction "if truth was wrong".
But I can make a similar thought experiment to try to help you understand my belief.

"If the church of W believe that the angel that opened the tomb of Jesus is God, whereas he is not, would that be blasphemy ?"
Well... Personnally, I do not think so. If you believe that X or Y person in the Bible is actually Jesus, and you worship him in your prayers, not as himself, but as Jesus, because you were fooled by some theology, but you don't, in anyway, diminish or change who Christ really is, how is that a blasphemy? This is just a sad error.
I really don't see the problem.
Though, if we were to say, Christ is JUST some powerful angel, this would be wrong. But we don't even believe Jesus has an angel nature. We only think he has a title (Archangel) and a name (Michael) that you guys don't recognize. So, how is that blasphemy?

 

[unelie]

The reason I ask this is because of the way some SDAs treat EG White's writings. A friend of mine put it this way- 'liberal' SDAs are more like evangelicals. The 'conservatives' treat EG White's writings as inspired, almost like the Bible. If I recall correctly EG White wrote something about it being unhealthy to wear wigs.

(about liberals and conservatives, this is exagerated, but kind of true. Many conservative Adventists disapprove some Ellen White teachings, and most liberal adventists think EGW was inspired, just not always)

Oh... But you asked where in the Bible was the statement that wigs are unhealthy. It looks like you expect her statements should be Bible based. Why would you think Ellen White statements on health should/would be Bible-based? If it was scientifically supported, would you need it to be also Bible based?
This is a genuine question, I am very interested in your opinion on the matter. This is a question I personally ponder on.

 

[unelie]

There is not much at all to pin this idea onto.

There is an old idea that some of the 'angel of the Lord' passages refer to Christ. But the Bible also says , 'To which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son. This day have I begotten thee." Hebrews mentions this in the discussion of the superiority of Christ to the angels.

Assuming Michael is Christ is a guess at best. There is not much to base the argument on.

And the prince of Persia is not deity. If the SDA is wrong and Michael is an angel and not Christ, isn't it blasphemy to call him Christ?

(This post is nicely worded, thank you )

 

[ewq1938]

the Hebrew betrothal ceremony has 12 steps, from the father choosing a bride, paying a price for her, to the groom snatching her away at a secret time after preparing a place for her in his father's house, having a feast and consumating the marriage.

So the son would have a pretty good idea when the time would come because he would know when he is finished preparing his Brides place. All he would need is a thumbs up from his Father and the time would come.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

While on Earth, he wasn't in heaven preparing the place so naturally he would not know the time yet but after he left and started preparing, then he would know which is why he was so detailed about the times and events surrounding his second coming in Revelation.

 

[posthuman]

While on Earth, he wasn't in heaven preparing the place so naturally he would not know the time yet but after he left and started preparing, then he would know which is why he was so detailed about the times and events surrounding his second coming in Revelation.

does He know how many mansions to build?
does He build a random number and hope it's enough? will he have too many, or not enough?
He knows if He has lost one sheep or not - and He won't lose one. so does He know how many sheep He has?

He's a carpenter - does He have a good guess at how long it will take Him to carpenter something?
all things were made by Him - is time a created thing, or is time older than God?
so is He inside it? or is it inside Him?

 

[posthuman]

If I recall correctly EG White wrote something about it being unhealthy to wear wigs.

i guess they'd make your head sweat, if you had them on all the time. like a hat.
what does she think of hats?

 

[presidente]

I disagree. I believe it is rigorous interpretation of prophecy.

How so? How could anyone get the idea that Michael is Christ pre-incarnate just based on his name and his being prince over Israel? Saul was prince over Israel.

That's not rigorous interpretation. It's guesswork.

To ask "if X is wrong" is problematic to me. I don't want to think in the direction "if truth was wrong".
But I can make a similar thought experiment to try to help you understand my belief.

"If the church of W believe that the angel that opened the tomb of Jesus is God, whereas he is not, would that be blasphemy ?"
Well... Personnally, I do not think so. If you believe that X or Y person in the Bible is actually Jesus, and you worship him in your prayers, not as himself, but as Jesus, because you were fooled by some theology, but you don't, in anyway, diminish or change who Christ really is, how is that a blasphemy? This is just a sad error.
I really don't see the problem.

Let's change it to something else. Let's say people were worshipping Gabriel and claiming Gabriel were god. Wouldn't that be blasphemous? Some Muslims call Gabriel the holy spirit.



Though, if we were to say, Christ is JUST some powerful angel, this would be wrong. But we don't even believe Jesus has an angel nature. We only think he has a title (Archangel) and a name (Michael) that you guys don't recognize. So, how is that blasphemy?[/QUOTE]

 

[presidente]

(about liberals and conservatives, this is exagerated, but kind of true. Many conservative Adventists disapprove some Ellen White teachings, and most liberal adventists think EGW was inspired, just not always)

Oh... But you asked where in the Bible was the statement that wigs are unhealthy. It looks like you expect her statements should be Bible based. Why would you think Ellen White statements on health should/would be Bible-based? If it was scientifically supported, would you need it to be also Bible based?
This is a genuine question, I am very interested in your opinion on the matter. This is a question I personally ponder on.

I was wondering how you viewed her writings. Some SDAs seem to think her grocery list was inspired.

I saw a SDA Saturday school (?) lesson about Ellen G White, talking about what kind of woman she was. It seemed really weird to me. I wouldn't imagine Methodists had books with little pictures about John Wesley and his preaching or Presbyterians with pictures of Calvin or Knox in Sunday school.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The Seventh Day Adventist teach that Jesus is Micheal the Arch Angel.

This was a widely accepted teaching among many Christians, including Spurgeon and various commentators like Adam Clarke. That Jesus, before He took the form of a man and was called "Jesus", took the form of an Angel and was called "Michael" which means "Who is as God".

Now, if Jesus manifesting Himself in the OT as a created angelic being isn't "Who is as God", then to what other being could the name possibly apply?