Saved by Water

[justbyfaith]

I am in DENIAL

Yes, you are.

It ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually, one must clarify which "sanctification" is being referred to.

I am referring to the practical kind.

 

[Wansvic]

But it seems to contradict the idea that sins are only remitted in water baptism. The verse in question appears to say to us that believing is all that is needed to obtain the remission of sins.

Please examine the verse again. The verse says that it is through Jesus' name that remission of sin is received. (this occurs in water baptism)

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

Please examine the verse again. The verse says that it is through Jesus' name that remission of sin is received. (this occurs in water baptism)

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Issue settled. Makes sense to me.

 

[Wansvic]

Issue settled. Makes sense to me.

Praise God. For it is He who reveals the truth in His Word. (1 Cor 3:5-8)

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour."

 

[peldom10]

Because Scripture disavows that.

Acts 10-
43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” NOT THROUGH BAPTISM. THROUGH HIS NAME.
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

What is clear in this passage is that Cornelius and household all were SAVED and received the Holy Spirit BEFORE Peter baptized any of them.

In fact, from v.45 and v.47 Peter didn't baptize anyone UNTIL he was convinced that they all were saved and had the Spirit.

Totally wrecks your theology.

Crazy...................now you just want to argue to protect your position.
That does none of us any good.

 

[peldom10]

This post is for any who want clarification as to the relationship between baptism and the blood of Jesus.

.............

Jesus completed HIS part of the process. Now he waits for all (who are willing) to RECEIVE the remission part. Baptism (for the remission of sins) is something you RECEIVE, not do. And it was established as such by God, not man. (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, etc)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

This not clear of your meaning.
Please clarify.

 

[peldom10]

Cornelius was saved AND received the Holy Spirit and was then baptized by Peter ONLY AFTER he was convinced that Cornelius and household WAS saved and had the Spirit.

Acts 10
43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” NO WATER HERE
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

How are any of these verses wrong? Please advise.


Sure. Quote the antiquated and rather unclear KJV.
New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Berean Study Bible
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
International Standard Version
Baptism, which is symbolized by that water, now saves you also, not by removing dirt from the body, but by asking God for a clear conscience based on the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah,
New Heart English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
World English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Nic at nite couldn't possibly have understood anything about Christian water baptism, since at that time, only the baptism of John was done, a baptism of repentance. So "born of water" refers to human birth.

Jesus spoke of 2 births in v.5; physical birth and spiritual birth. iow, one must be born and born again to enter the kingdom of God.


Clearly John was asking for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


The order is clear: making disciples is evangelism, and what follows is water baptism, as an act of obedience and experiential sanctification.


The account of Acts 10:43-47 refutes your application of Acts 2:38 to anyone outside that crowd.

WOW...now what makes KJV antiquated?...all of a sudden.

New age religion has several members..and self serving.

 

[KelbyofGod]

@justbyfaith In answer to request to show that remission of sins is accomplished through water baptism INDEPENDENT of receiving the Holy Ghost...

Doesn't matter. A lot occurs when a person puts their 100% trust in Christ for salvation.

You need to support this assumption with actual Scripture. Please do.

The scriptural support was put in place quite awhile before Cornelius.

In John the Baptist's day,,,when Jesus hadn't been revealed even to John yet... when 100% trust in Jesus could not be done, and the Holy Ghost could not yet be given because Jesus had not yet been glorified.... John was given the task of water baptism with a purpose that was clearly stated in both Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3 as it is written "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Mark 1:4 KJV

What that means is that remission of sins was scripturally proven to be available BEFORE either of the two things you've claimed are the cause for it.

If that blows your mind, GOOD...It should. But that is no excuse for disbelieving the scripture which states that John's baptism IN WATER is a function and manifestation of repentance to the accomplishment of remission of sins.

If you can't acknowledge the purpose of baptism when ONLY baptism was available, it is no wonder that you cannot acknowledge it when God then provides even more astounding details of salvation that you could get distracted by.

Water baptism doesn't provide the fullness of salvation, but it does produce the one piece (remission of sins) because Jesus indeed shed his blood to make the atonement.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

This not clear of your meaning.
Please clarify.

Remission of sins was available before Jesus died through John's baptism as it is written:

"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." - Mark 1:4 KJV​

​

This is possible because the sins(or debts for sin) were removed (remitted) from the sinner who was getting baptized...and those sins were placed on Jesus so Jesus could carry them to the cross for us....as it is written:


All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." - Isaiah 53:6 KJV

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

@justbyfaith In answer to request to show that remission of sins is accomplished through water baptism INDEPENDENT of receiving the Holy Ghost...




The scriptural support was put in place quite awhile before Cornelius.

In John the Baptist's day,,,when Jesus hadn't been revealed even to John yet... when 100% trust in Jesus could not be done, and the Holy Ghost could not yet be given because Jesus had not yet been glorified.... John was given the task of water baptism with a purpose that was clearly stated in both Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3 as it is written "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Mark 1:4 KJV

What that means is that remission of sins was scripturally proven to be available BEFORE either of the two things you've claimed are the cause for it.

If that blows your mind, GOOD...It should. But that is no excuse for disbelieving the scripture which states that John's baptism IN WATER is a function and manifestation of repentance to the accomplishment of remission of sins.

If you can't acknowledge the purpose of baptism when ONLY baptism was available, it is no wonder that you cannot acknowledge it when God then provides even more astounding details of salvation that you could get distracted by.

Water baptism doesn't provide the fullness of salvation, but it does produce the one piece (remission of sins) because Jesus indeed shed his blood to make the atonement.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

@justbyfaith the statement including "BEFORE either of the things you've claimed" was written towards @FreeGrace2 's claim, not yours. Just an FYI there. I should have written it more clearly.. something along the lines of :

"What that means is that remission of sins was scripturally proven to be available BEFORE either 100% trust in Jesus OR the receiving of the Holy Ghost."

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

oops. forgot the last part

"What that means is that remission of sins was scripturally proven to be available BEFORE either 100% trust in Jesus OR the receiving of the Holy Ghost were even available."

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[peldom10]

Cornelius was saved AND received the Holy Spirit and was then baptized by Peter ONLY AFTER he was convinced that Cornelius and household WAS saved and had the Spirit.

Acts 10
43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” NO WATER HERE
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

How are any of these verses wrong? Please advise.


Sure. Quote the antiquated and rather unclear KJV.
New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Berean Study Bible
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
International Standard Version
Baptism, which is symbolized by that water, now saves you also, not by removing dirt from the body, but by asking God for a clear conscience based on the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah,
New Heart English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
World English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Nic at nite couldn't possibly have understood anything about Christian water baptism, since at that time, only the baptism of John was done, a baptism of repentance. So "born of water" refers to human birth.

Jesus spoke of 2 births in v.5; physical birth and spiritual birth. iow, one must be born and born again to enter the kingdom of God.


Clearly John was asking for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


The order is clear: making disciples is evangelism, and what follows is water baptism, as an act of obedience and experiential sanctification.


The account of Acts 10:43-47 refutes your application of Acts 2:38 to anyone outside that crowd.

Tray again. Your disagreement is with God's word....not me. The quote speaks for itself.

Posting a bunch of unrelated sections of the Bible achieves nothing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is "positional sanctification" a practical thing in your opinion?

No. That would be "experiential sanctification", or spiritual growth.

It amounts to justification...which is the declaration of righteousness apart from practical righteousness.

The believer is justified on the basis of being in union with Christ, which is positional sanctification.

All of which I've already explained.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I have refuted your flawed and misunderstanding of both Acts 2:38 and 39.

zzzzzzzzzzzz.

See 1 Corinthians 13:5 (RSV).

" It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs."

If there was a point to quoting this verse, please explain.

To correct those in need of correction is in no way a "dishonoring" of them. If I had called you a name, that would be a dishonor.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1Co 8:1, Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2, And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3, But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

How does Cornelius refute my view totally?

Because he was saved and received the Spirit BEFORE he was water baptized.

If you had actually read ch 10 and 11, you would have realized that.

Regarding v.2 above, attempting to correct someone who is in error doesn't mean they lack charity.

Titus 1:13 - This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith.
That is my hope.
Your views are NOT sound in the faith. And you have been shown the truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Cornelius refutes all of your notions.

How so?

Cornelius was saved and received the Spirit BEFORE ever being water baptized. That's how so.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, how about that!!??

You are now admitting that early Acts was "transitional". I made that point way back.

I never denied it.

I pointed out early on that early Acts was transitional, but you weren't buying it.

Since you believe it is, why are you still holding on so tightly to Acts 2:38 then? Things were obviously different during the transitional period.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm sure they believed before they were baptized; and therefore Acts 2:38 is not an exception.

Are your views like wansics? Or different? Maybe I'm getting you 2 mixed up.

It went like this:

Preaching --> repentance --> belief -->baptism --> received the Holy Ghost.

or,

Preaching --> belief --->repentance --> baptism --> received the Holy Ghost

What do you mean by "IT went like this"? What, exactly, "went like this"?

Above, you have baptism before receiving the Spirit. That's NOT what occurred with Cornelius, or what Paul taught the Galatian believers.

Do you believe that water baptism is required for soul salvation? I need to clear up who believes what.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I am in DENIAL

Yes, you are.

What a low down dishonest move that was. Leaving out the REST of the sentence. But of course you were too dishonest to include the REST of the sentence. I am in total DENIAL of your views. That's what.