Saved by Water

[Wansvic]

obey Christ is living for Him...it is not the 10 commandments or other parts of the law

you want to make it all about baptism....look at the title of your op...saved by water...nope

walk in the spirit would be obedience to Christ...in other words, renew your mind by the word and do not walk after the world

you probably have something else in mind, but I don't follow cults

we are free in Christ...consult a Bible for that...free to be enslaved again to follow all kings of manmade traditions and rules that Jesus came to set us free from

you might know this if you actually believed that we are saved only by Jesus blood and not ritual bathing or Jesus name only or baptizing in water. we should be baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ.

If you will recall the thread is about the topic of water baptism as foreshadowed by the flood in 1 Peter 3:20-21. The topic of water baptism has nothing to do with the 10 commandments or the law. Water baptism is a New Testament mandate.

“...God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”

 

[Wansvic]

Okay. Playing the devil's advocate here for a second (because I am in agreement with you)...

What do you make of the following?

Act 10:43, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

The scripture you reference does not contradict the fact that sins are remitted in water baptism. The verse confirms the truth. Notice the scripture states that it is through the name of Jesus that believers sins are remitted. Afterward Peter actually commands the group to be water baptized in the name of the Lord in verses 47-48. Their obedience to the command is what brought about remission of their sin as confirmed elsewhere in scripture.

 

[Wansvic]

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

Believing in Jesus is witnessed by obedience to the Word. Jesus is the Word. (John 1:1)

 

[peldom10]

Okay. Playing the devil's advocate here for a second (because I am in agreement with you)...

What do you make of the following?

Act 10:43, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Don't allow the new age religion types to influence you.....: ........ " believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins".....has nothing to do with the requirement of water baptism. Except that...we must believe before repentance and baptism for...repentance and baptism to be meaningful.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Those who believe in Jesus will be saved through their obedience to His commands.

Well, you just keep getting it wrong.

Those who believe in Jesus will be saved, period. Eph 2:8 says we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.

Your saying "saved through their obeidence to His commands" puts you square in the middle of a works salvation system.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

It should be obvious to everyone that this is the ONLY verse in the NT saying this. And, there are many multitudes of verses that say that salvation/eternal life are by faith or belief in Jesus Christ, without any other addition.

Since that it true, your single verse is being misunderstood, obviously.

What is obvious is that to "obey Him" refers to believing in Him and who He says He is and what He has done for you personally.

It has nothing to do with works, lifestyle etc.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It seems you believe that proper "belief" excludes baptism for remission of sins. a.k.a water baptism for remission of sins is something outside of belief, therefore it is unnecessary

Proper belief is having 100 full trust in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ on your behalf. As a Person, He is fully God and therefore Deity, and His Work was on the cross paying my sin debt.

That, and that alone, is what saves. Water baptism is symbolic and a ritual and saves no one.

I believe that proper "belief" includes baptism for remission of sins.

Well, this is simply an addition to what God requires.

John 6:29 - Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Where do you see water in this verse?

A.k.a water baptism for remission of sins is something inside of belief, therefore it is a necessary part of belief (and more specifically it is part of "repentance")

You are simply forcing something into something else. The Bible doesn't do that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

This is only verse in the NT saying salvation is for those who "obey Him". And, there are many multitudes of verses that say that salvation/eternal life is on the basis of faith, without adding anything else.

So, it should be obvious to you that you are the one misunderstanding Heb 5:9. Salvation is NEVER by works, or lifestyle.

So, the words "who obey Him" refers to believing in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. As a Person, He is the God-Man, Deity, and His Work on the cross paid my sin debt, and He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him.

 

[peldom10]

Obedience IS NOT only on one point but to obey the WHOLE WORD OF GOD is pleasing.
Jesus is the word and the word was with the Father and the Holy Spirit at creation.

Since you believe Jesus only pentacostal,how do you reconcile the Holy Ghost entering into a person's being with evidence of tongues?
That's three distinct parts!

Furthermore how can anyone be so stopped at water baptism and miss ALL the commandments?

If all one has is Jesus ONLY what assurance of God do you have of his fullness in your life?

He is correct. If a person follows all of God's commandments he will be born again and receive eternal salvation.
What is it you disagree with of that proclamation?

 

[peldom10]

....................

That, and that alone, is what saves. Water baptism is symbolic and a ritual and saves no one.
........................

Well, this is simply an addition to what God requires.
.....................
You are simply forcing something into something else. The Bible doesn't do that.

Baptism is required...why do you disavow that in scriptures?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Have you ever considered that water baptism is only effective towards remission of sins BECAUSE of the atonement made by the blood of Jesus? That's why water baptism works for the remission of sins. It's not excluding, detracting or distracting from the blood of Jesus. It's RELYING on it.

Love in Jesus to all who read,
-Kelby

The fact is clear in the words of Acts 11 that Cornelius and household were saved by believing what Peter preached (the gospel) and received the indwelling Holy Spirit ALL BEFORE Peter was convinced that they were saved and received the Spirit and then baptized them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That was important enough that I'll repost it for all to consider. (plus it saves me re-writing it for @FreeGrace2 and @SophieT )

Have you ever considered that water baptism is only effective towards remission of sins BECAUSE of the atonement made by the blood of Jesus? That's why water baptism works for the remission of sins. It's not excluding, detracting or distracting from the blood of Jesus. It's RELYING on it.

Love in Jesus to all who read,
-Kelby

Water baptism is ONLY a ritual, and a symbol. It saves nothing nor remits sin. You've already seen many of the verses that prove this.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There is a specific, conditional promise in holy scripture regarding baptism in Jesus' Name, that if you receive the ordinance, you will receive remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now, why do you not believe in that promise? And why do you attempt to discourage others from believing in it?

My eternal destiny is secure; I have both the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost; as promised in holy scripture (Acts 2:38-39).

Your reliance on Acts 2:38 is a huge mistake. That verse isn't for you. It was only for that crowd plus the Gentiles who saw Jesus' miracles, His fulfilling of prophecy, and then took part in His crucifixion.

Cornelius was saved AND received the Holy Spirit and was then baptized by Peter ONLY AFTER he was convinced that Cornelius and household WAS saved and had the Spirit.

 

[peldom10]

Proper belief is having 100 full trust in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ on your behalf. As a Person, He is fully God and therefore Deity, and His Work was on the cross paying my sin debt.

That, and that alone, is what saves. Water baptism is symbolic and a ritual and saves no one.


Well, this is simply an addition to what God requires.

John 6:29 - Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Where do you see water in this verse?


You are simply forcing something into something else. The Bible doesn't do that.

WOW...carry that thru...;
where do you see repentance in that verse?
Were do you see ....maintain until the end..... in that verse?
Where do you see over 50 some commandments in that verse?, etc.
Are you saying they are of no consequence?

Why?...because that verse does not include wording about all the others...so what is your point?

Water baptism is ONLY a ritual, and a symbol. It saves nothing nor remits sin. You've already seen many of the verses that prove this.

You have not listed ......one.

Baptism is required. Start with acts 2;38 and respond to it or you have been relegated to the new age religion group.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sanctification is not an aspect of salvation?

Actually, one must clarify which "sanctification" is being referred to.

All believers have been "set apart" sanctified) for holy service. This is called positional sanctification. Based on the beilever being "in union with Christ" per Eph 1-2.

However, spiritual growth is what follows being born again (regeneration). this is called experiential sanctification.

Finally, neither sanctification is an aspect of salvation. both follow salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is something that you have wrongly judged.



You implied it.



It was directed to those who were present, and to their children, and to all that were afar off.

Unless you want to blot Acts 2:39 out of your Bible, stop purporting this lie!



See above. I refer you to Ats 2:39.

You are not going to succeed at purporting this lie. The scriptures specifically refute it (Acts 2:39).

I have refuted your flawed and misunderstanding of both Acts 2:38 and 39.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I think that we may have to agree to disagree.

I don't have a problem with that.

I don't believe that I am going to be able to convince you of my point of view

That is absolutely true!!

and you are not going to convince me of yours by calling God irrational

I never called Him that. Your posts seem to suggest rather clearly that God is capable of being irrational. So it's YOUR view that makes God capable of irrational actions.

but you will be held accountable for insulting Him on your day of judgment.

Nonsense. I haven't insulted Him in any way. I've defended the truth, which you don't believe.

And, everyone will be held accountable for ALL of their actions, whether good or bad. 2 Cor 5:10

I would suggest asking the Lord to show you how these contradictions in your mind can be reconciled by the Holy Spirit. Ask Him; seek the truth from Him; and knock on the door of His kingdom for the answer.

In fact, all the contradictions are found in your views. And they can't be reconciled with Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Actually, sanctification is a life long process. It would begin with baptism. But that's not the end or completion of it.

It can be completed in a moment of time (1 Corinthians 6:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv)).

1 Cor 6:11 - And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Thess 5:23,24
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

In the first verse, "you were washed" equals salvation. The next part is about positional sanctification, which follows salvation.

In the next 2 verses, v23 speaks of spiritual growth, or what is called "experiential sanctification". Notice the subjunctive mood in "may your whole spirit, soul and body...". That shows that experiential sanctification is potential, not a guarantee.

Here is a verse on experiential sanctification:

1 peter 2:2 - Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation

 

[FreeGrace2]

John's baptism prepared the hearts of the people for the coming of Christ. See Luke 7:29-30.

Let's not keep trying to change the goal posts. John's baptism was NOT Christian baptism, therefore, what Jesus told Nic at nite couldn't possibly be a reference to it.

And I gave you a lengthy explanation with website info to look it up for yourself.

 

[peldom10]

Your reliance on Acts 2:38 is a huge mistake. That verse isn't for you. It was only for that crowd plus the Gentiles who saw Jesus' miracles, His fulfilling of prophecy, and then took part in His crucifixion.

Cornelius was saved AND received the Holy Spirit and was then baptized by Peter ONLY AFTER he was convinced that Cornelius and household WAS saved and had the Spirit.

Totally wrong

I guess all of these are for the buggy man also....huh?;

1Peter 3; 21....The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. kjv:

John3;5......Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV)

Matt. 3;14........But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Matt; 28;18-29......And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. kjv

Plus Acts 2;38

There are many others.

We await your response....?

 

[FreeGrace2]

justbyfaith said:
Okay. Playing the devil's advocate here for a second (because I am in agreement with you)...

What do you make of the following?

Act 10:43, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

The scripture you reference does not contradict the fact that sins are remitted in water baptism.

Thanks for such a CLEAR exampe of denial. Of course Acts 10:43 contradicts your opinions about Acts 2:38.

The verse confirms the truth.

Uh, every verse confirms truth. Everyone knows that.

Notice the scripture states that it is through the name of Jesus that believers sins are remitted. Afterward Peter actually commands the group to be water baptized in the name of the Lord in verses 47-48. Their obedience to the command is what brought about remission of their sin as confirmed elsewhere in scripture.

No. You are very confused. The text refutes your opinions.

Peter only baptized Cornelius and household AFTER he was convinced that they were saved AND received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 11-
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. The Day of Pentecost involved those ALREADY SAVED.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

Peter was explaining to the Jewish believers in Jerusalem what happened in Joppa. The whole emphasis was on Cornelius/Gentiles believed and were saved AND received the Holy Spirit. Only then were they baptized.