How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Yes but God Shows the Rapture before the 666 inquisition begins
Dear FRIEND, i do not know you personally, but if you are in Christ then you are my Brother.

4 Months ago i offered a $1,000 Reward for anyone to bring forth just one pre-trib rapture of the Church/Elect/Saints scripture.

No one has been able because it does not exist in Scripture.

But i want you to get the Reward so please search the Scriptures and see if you can find:

The Lord or the Apostles saying: "Christ will pre-trib rapture His Bride/Church/Elect/Saints BEFORE the Antichrist and BEFORE the Resurrection."

SIMPLE
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
^ "3 that day [from v.2's Subject] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* and the man of sin be revealed..."


When Paul REPEATS this SEQUENCE THREE TIMES in this passage, he is not changing Subjects (amongst those THREE TIMES)
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
^ "3 that day [from v.2's Subject] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* and the man of sin be revealed..."
^ "3 that day [from v.2's Subject] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE FROM THE TRUTH *FIRST* and the man of sin be revealed..."
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
!!!!THE SECRET RAPTURE!!!!

It's was only a secret when the body of Christ was lacking some of the Hidden Manna.


Rev 2:17b To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna.

Two of the Seven Promises

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Rev 3:22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

("After These Things")

Rev 4:1-2 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.

If one is concerned about Chronological order then we see/hear !!!!"After these things"!!!! six more times (for a total of eight times) and the words "After This" Once, before the Church is ever mentioned again (nineteen chapters later)

John is the observer of everything that happen (firstly in the throne room) where shortly after his arrival there, and Immediately after a reception of Lighting and Thunder Seven Lamps of fire appear in front of the throne.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were (((seven lamps of fire))) burning before the throne, ((((which are the seven Spirits of God.))))

And what follows is where the seven lamps of fire came from, and Jesus states what they are.

Rev 1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash.

Rev 2:1a-b “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this

Rev 1:19 "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place "after these things". 20 (((("As for the mystery)))) of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and (((((the seven lampstands are the seven churches.)))))

Rev 5:6 And I saw in the middle of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the middle of the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, ((((which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth)))).

(((And now remembering again the great promise)))

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

The Seven Spirits of God are first acknowledged after John came (back from the future) to deliver what he had written to seven letters to the churches in Asia. John Gives the blessing from those in heaven.

Rev 1:4-5 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, (from) Him who is and who was and who is to come, and (from) the seven Spirits who are in front of His throne. 5 and (from) Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
When connecting all the sevens we are seeing the perfection of timing in that John arrives into the throne room immediately before the Lamb (with His completed Spirit Body) returns to be presented before God; In that those in heaven first descend (to receive in the clouds) those who remain alive on earth; then immediately returning to the throne room.

Dan 7:13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days And was
presented before Him.

1Th 4:16 The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice like the an archangel, and with the trumpet of God;
the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1Th 5:9 Because
God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:10 to wait for His Son
*(out from/G1537)* heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

*G1537* ἐκ ek, ek; a primary preposition denoting origin
(the point when action or motion proceeds)

And a few more examples of ek/s proper usage.

Rev 4:5
Out from/G1537 the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came
out from/G1537 the temple from/G575 the throne, saying, "It is done."

Note
G575/s proper use in that it denotes only (where) excluding motion/action.

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, “The
days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming
s

So it's not without aim and extensive examination that we come to these conclusions.

Rom 1:18 the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

An Empire was torn by war, and even every kind of plague, and yet a woman stakes claims of having originated from there. Other than many dispersions that occurred throughout the empire’s demise, there is no evidence (like scores of original documents) that would be proof of meticulous devotion to the truth; but only the opposite is true. What remained of the Roman congregation was ravaged, and replaced with the completely imposter church. If there were even a few righteous people remaining in the Roman Empire, it would have survived intact to this day. It was the woman’s destiny to survive the demise of her many beasts/empires. What went out of Rome (even its legacy) was the final makeover of Babylonian religion; the false prophets of the harlot, riding the backs’ of the sea beasts; ruthless profiteers taking her plague out to all humanity; just as the Revelations prophecy.

It was only when Protestants published a complete bible that the Harlot prepared her own. Otherwise we might well have been waiting until now before we could decipher all these things. The Harlot (with the Sword) has taken her testimony out in to all the nations, with the whole world broken up into her own states/diocese; the clay molded within the iron of Her beasts who conquer. So it's safe to say that she's taken (her testimony) out to all the nations, but the end did not come.

Mat 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
I agree with the point that I *think* you are making with regard to Daniel 7:13 (unless I'm misunderstanding your point there :D )

Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His comings

So it's not without aim and extensive examination that we come to these conclusions.
... however, I am not seeing that the word "coming" ^ in the Greek, here, is "plural"



(note: I'm not saying that the word "parousia" isn't used of BOTH the occurrence associated with "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" and ALSO associated [distinctly] with His Second Coming TO THE EARTH... IT IS... and with those being at different points in time, in the chronology)
 
Dec 8, 2021
76
18
8
Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?”
Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.”

THREE things the LORD said to Peter.
#1.) The Lord was going to the Cross where only HE can go for our sins.
#2.) After the Resurrection Peter would again follow the LORD = Acts
#3.) Peter would die, as the Lord, being crucified.

Jesus said to Peter, “Feed My sheep.
Truly, truly, I tell you, when you were young, you dressed yourself and walked where you wanted; but when you are old,
you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God.
John 21:16-19

If we keep on reading
Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?”
Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.”

THREE things the LORD said to Peter.
#1.) The Lord was going to the Cross where only HE can go for our sins.
#2.) After the Resurrection Peter would again follow the LORD = Acts
#3.) Peter would die, as the Lord, being crucified.

Jesus said to Peter, “Feed My sheep.
Truly, truly, I tell you, when you were young, you dressed yourself and walked where you wanted; but when you are old,
you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God.
John 21:16-19
(P2021)
To better understand the Savior's answer given to Peter ("Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward" [Jn 13:36]), We should go on reading, without even stopping at the end of the chapter, because the same subject is being spoken of, and enlarged, by the Lord to all the disciples further ahead. Our bibles put an end in verse 38, causing an artificial and deceiving break that distracts the reader from the fact that Jesus speech does not switch, but goes on (Jn 14:1-4), abounding on the subject, which would be: Him going to the Father, making arrangments for His own, and then coming back for them.
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
What was the message that Christ repeated to the Churches?
Everybody can read what I posted and find out.. But (FOLLOW THE SEVENS to the throne) AND THE REVLATIONS SAYS ((("AFTER THESE THINGS"))) NINE TIMES AND "AFTER THIS" ONCE, (nasb) These short phrases set the Chronology of all the events taking place in the book of Revelations!!!!
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
Dear FRIEND, i do not know you personally, but if you are in Christ then you are my Brother.

4 Months ago i offered a $1,000 Reward for anyone to bring forth just one pre-trib rapture of the Church/Elect/Saints scripture.

No one has been able because it does not exist in Scripture.

But i want you to get the Reward so please search the Scriptures and see if you can find:

The Lord or the Apostles saying: "Christ will pre-trib rapture His Bride/Church/Elect/Saints BEFORE the Antichrist and BEFORE the Resurrection."

SIMPLE
OK HERE IS THE RAPTURE AGAIN!!

VOICE LIKE THE SOUND OF A TRUMPET SAYS "COME UP HERE"
Rev 4:1 (((After these things))) I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first (((voice))) which I had heard, (((like the sound of a trumpet))) speaking with me, (((said, “Come up here))), and I will show you (((what must take place (((after these things.”))) 2 Immediately JOHN was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.

There are (17) "SEVEN"/S THAT LEAD ALL THE WAY TO THE THRONE

! ! !Follow the "seven"s to the throne! ! !

Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and ((((the seven lampstands are the seven churches.))))

Seven Golden Lampstands = Seven Churches = Seven Lamps of Fire in front of the Throne = Seven Spirits of God = Seven Eyes and Seven Horn = Seven Spirits of God that were sent out into all the earth.

There are nine ((("AFTER THESE THINGS"))) IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS.​
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
We are before the throne even now FRIEND - and you are still here on earth and will remain here on earth Until His Coming.

Should you not die before then - amen.

Instead of seeking to support a certain view = challenge that view to the entire Body of Scripture.

Review what i shared in Post 5,262

my last call back to you for now = I HAVE to GO help my sick Father in Law = PLEASE Pray for Morris who is a Jew and is dying and needs His Messiah = Can i count on you for that???

PLEASE pray for the Holy Spirit to speak thru me with Grace and Favor for Morris.........................
This statement of the Lord makes it pretty clear that until we pass to heaven we are not yet in the Thone room, and therefor not yet among the Seven Spirits/Brethren who are looking upon God and the Lamb.

Jhn 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later."​
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
I agree with the point that I *think* you are making with regard to Daniel 7:13 (unless I'm misunderstanding your point there :D )


... however, I am not seeing that the word "coming" ^ in the Greek, here, is "plural"



(note: I'm not saying that the word "parousia" isn't used of BOTH the occurrence associated with "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" and ALSO associated [distinctly] with His Second Coming TO THE EARTH... IT IS... and with those being at different points in time, in the chronology)
Hello Brother: The Revelations set the Chronology with 9 "after these things" indicative of segmentation of time and events that take place over the seven year period of time. We (the body of Christ) is first receiving the kingdom of heaven before returning to earth, but even after the church's rapture the kingdom of heaven continues to fill up because of the 666 inquisition. Yet three and a half days past the middle of the week marks the point in which heaven is filled; with all those that relate to the heavenly kingdom complete. And then (with the temple closed) the bowls of wrath begin. There will be the surviving remnant that will be passing into the millennium; when thereafter, the full expression of what is being said in Daniel 7:14 is realized.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
Hello Brother: The Revelations set the Chronology with 9 "after these things" indicative of segmentation of time and events that take place over the seven year period of time.
Pretty much AGREE (y) (I suspect we differ *slightly* on the details of the timing of items falling within these "7 years, but basically pretty much AGREE).

And I agree there are "9 'after these'" which fall WITHIN the "7 year period" (y)

(this does not mean I think that each mention of this is spaced something like "280 days apart"... just to be clear to the readers :D )

We (the body of Christ) is first receiving [...] before returning to earth,
Pretty much agree. (y)

(note: I see the 24 elders, who say, "hast redeemed US" as being the completed "Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" / or, at the very least representing it/us)

but even after the church's rapture the kingdom of heaven continues to fill up [...].
Agreed. (y)

More ppl will indeed be coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (while they are IN / EXPERIENCING what is commonly called the Tribulation period [the 7 year period])

Yet three and a half days past the middle of the week marks the point in which heaven is filled;
I suspect we differ slightly as to the matter of what event / events mark the MID-point.

I see the "5th Trumpet [events] / 1st Woe unto the earth" as pretty much being the MID-point (Rev9:1,12 / Rev12:12,9,14 / Rev8:13;
the "abyss / bottomless pit" is not opened more than ONCE during the 7-yr period;
and I see the "2Ws' 1260 days" as STRADDLING the two halves somewhat, with THEIR "1260 days" concluding in the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"... that being somewhat AFTER the MID-trib point [which is 5th Trumpet]);

...so while there are 9 mentions of "after these," I see 1:19c as like a summary intro statement...
...and I see 4:1's TWO mentions as speaking of the same thing (the 7 years' commencing point, so to speak);

... so that if you were to list these mentions ("after these") out (minus the INTRO summary one, and combining the two in 4:1), there would be a LIST of SEVEN mentions... so (as I see it) it would be the MIDDLE ONE of those SEVEN (9:12) that I see as reflecting on what just took place surrounding the MID-trib point / events ("5th Trumpet [events; 9:1] / 1st Woe unto the earth")...


...so you and I only differ SLIGHTLY on the nitty-gritty details of the timing of certain items WITHIN the 7 Trib years...

...no biggie. = )

(y)

P.S. on this general point ^ ... This doesn't mean I think the mention of "after these" in 7:9 is speaking of things within the first half (since it would be among the LISTED mentions falling in the LIST before the 9:12 mention [MID-trib events point])... since I see the phrase (in 7:14) "[coming out of] the GREAT tribulation" to be referring specifically to the SECOND HALF of the 7 years... not that these folks don't EXIST in the first half... lol

And then (with the temple closed) the bowls of wrath begin.
...we only differ SLIGHTLY on the timing of this point, in particular (for reasons I explained a little, above).

There will be the surviving remnant that will be passing into the millennium; when thereafter, the full expression of what is being said in Daniel 7:14 is realized.
Pretty much AGREED. (y)





Yes, I am among those who DO see a "pre-trib" Rapture of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (us)... with more ppl coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (when they are IN the Trib); I've stated in past posts that "our Rapture" is a primary IMPETUS that helps Israel turn in faith to Christ... and it is THEY who go on [in the Trib yrs] to DO the "INVITING" TO the earthly MK age, which follows the 7 years and commences upon Christ's "RETURN" to the earth (RETURNING *with* us / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY)
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
pre-trib is disinformation from satan because God never said it - never
Stop lying.
1) all rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.
2) lot is gathered pre judgement
3) noah is framed preflood and paired with the coming of Jesus
4) you need acts1 to read in a destroyed earth 4 horseman apocolypse

Psssst..you need ALL THAT REVERSED
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
This statement of the Lord makes it pretty clear that until we pass to heaven we are not yet in the Thone room, and therefor not yet among the Seven Spirits/Brethren who are looking upon God and the Lamb.

Jhn 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later."​
Good Morning Dear Friend,

KEY to Understanding = The LORD say this to Peter BEFORE he went the the Cross and His Resurrection.

The Way was Opened for us made NEW after His Resurrection.

When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit.
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people. Matt ch27

Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
If we keep on reading


(P2021)
To better understand the Savior's answer given to Peter ("Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward" [Jn 13:36]), We should go on reading, without even stopping at the end of the chapter, because the same subject is being spoken of, and enlarged, by the Lord to all the disciples further ahead. Our bibles put an end in verse 38, causing an artificial and deceiving break that distracts the reader from the fact that Jesus speech does not switch, but goes on (Jn 14:1-4), abounding on the subject, which would be: Him going to the Father, making arrangments for His own, and then coming back for them.
YES Brother Pablo2021 = YES and AMEN and HalleluYah

Thank You for your Post #5,348
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
Yes, I am among those who DO see a "pre-trib" Rapture of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (us)... with more ppl coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (when they are IN the Trib); I've stated in past posts that "our Rapture" is a primary IMPETUS that helps Israel turn in faith to Christ... and [...<snip>...]
As another P.S. to my post (I forgot to add, to that overall point)...


2 Thessalonians 2:13 [to the Church which is His body] ... as some versions have it -


English Standard Version
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord,
because God chose [*G138 - heilato / haireo] you
as the firstfruits to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit
and belief in the truth.


International Standard Version
At all times we are obligated to thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord,
because God chose [*G138 - heilato / haireo] you
to be the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit
and through faith in the truth.




[note what *G138 ^ "chose / hath chosen" says... (under "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance") - "Probably akin to airo [G142]" (see that word ;) - G138 - https://biblehub.com/greek/138.htm ; G142 - https://biblehub.com/greek/142.htm ]
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Twisting Scripture Brother is sin. Why do you fight against the words of the LORD where the dead in Christ are FIRST to RISE.

Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,
will by no means will precede those who have fallen asleep/died.
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
You just pointed out " with"