Saved by Water

[Wansvic]

I must leave you to your reality denial, then. I have done all I can do for you. I must go now. Fairwell.

Since Acts 2:38 and 22:16 speak directly to the fact that remission of one's sin takes places upon obedience to water baptism there is no question as to who is in denial. Paul stated in Romans that it is in obedience to baptism that a person is buried with Jesus into death wherein the body of sin is destroyed.

Rom 6:4-6
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

[Wansvic]

No!!! good works won’t save you, only in God through Jesus Christ can you get saved. No baptism will change this!!

Obedience to water baptism is when one's sins are remitted as stated in God's word. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

 

[KelbyofGod]

Not water baptism.

Why do you say "not water baptism" in regards to remission of sins? Does not Mark 1:4 (and Luke 3:3) state that John baptized "for remission of sins"?

John clearly was baptizing with water and NOT the spirit.

So remission of sins was accomplished by water baptism, not spirit baptism. Remission of sins just makes us sin-free. It does not make us Sons. Spirit baptism is what makes us Sons, as you pointed out.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Evmur]

Acts 15:8-9
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

After receiving the Holy Ghost the group obeyed Peter's command and was water baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:48) Notice also that Peter told the group prior to water baptizing them that it was through Jesus' name that people receive remission of sins after believing in Him. (Acts 10:43)

You have to walk very carefully around such words as command and obey, looks to me like Cornelius greatly desired to be baptised and Peter felt like he could not withold it since they were already saved.

If Baptism was a condition of salvation, without which we could not be saved then be sure ...

... be sure that Paul would have baptised but he didn't.

 

[Evmur]

Just as the water of Noah's day pointed to the need for salvation, the water in the baptismal tub points back to the already established fact of salvation. It is for witnessing, testimony, and remembrance. The soul-cleansing power is in the Blood, not the tub.

totally well said there bro.

 

[Evmur]

Obedience to water baptism is not a work of righteousness. Also, according to the word without obedience to water baptism one's sins are not remitted. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) This is why even after receiving the Holy Ghost the group was commanded to submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Peter said their hearts were purified ... white as wool, pure as the driven snow. All before any baptism with water.

 

[Evmur]

This is pure and utter rubbish. The Bible also tells you to wash my feet and give me a holy kiss. None of these things are causal for salvation. Anything that detracts from the efficacy of the power in Jesus's blood is blasphemy in my mind.



Let us have a look at it then...

Acts
2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts
22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

No water mentioned anywhere. We are to be washed in Jesus's name and by His blood.

Please stop detracting and distracting from power of Jesus blood to completely save.

You speak right. They are raising baptism to the level of an idolatrous act in the same way as the Jews of old raised Gideon's fleece and made it an idol.

All this is what led to the sprinkling of babies and the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. The next step after that was to restrict the administration of baptism and the Lord's Supper to a clerical class and so they usurped the leadership of the church.

 

[Evmur]

If nothing is required of man why didn't Peter just congratulate and tell the group that they were saved after they believed his message about Jesus? Why command they do anything else?

They WERE saved when they believed only. By making something we must DO in order to be saved you are opening the door to false profession. That is exactly where the church began to go wrong. People got baptised and joined the church who never were saved, no inner work of the Holy Spirit had been done in their hearts.

But they were baptised as good as anybody else so who can bar them from the fellowship.

They come into the church unchanged full of their old ways of worldly ambition pushing to go to the top of the pile and be elected as leaders [... not to mention all their other naughty ways ] and so the church becomes as corrupt as the world.

That is why Paul so fiercely defended the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith.

If you make baptism a requirement of salvation you are as guilty as those who turned the Galatians away from the pure faith.

I say to you BEWARE.

 

[Wansvic]

Why do you say "not water baptism" in regards to remission of sins? Does not Mark 1:4 (and Luke 3:3) state that John baptized "for remission of sins"?

John clearly was baptizing with water and NOT the spirit.

So remission of sins was accomplished by water baptism, not spirit baptism. Remission of sins just makes us sin-free. It does not make us Sons. Spirit baptism is what makes us Sons, as you pointed out.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Both baptisms are necessary. According to Jesus only those born of water and Spirit can enter the kingdom of God. This is confirmed by many scriptures. One such scripture is 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Verse 11 specifically points to water and Spirit baptisms.

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: BUT ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, AND by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Wansvic]

You have to walk very carefully around such words as command and obey, looks to me like Cornelius greatly desired to be baptised and Peter felt like he could not withold it since they were already saved.

If Baptism was a condition of salvation, without which we could not be saved then be sure ...

... be sure that Paul would have baptised but he didn't.

You are mistaken. Paul did water baptize. First of all he was water baptized himself by Ananias. (Acts 22:16) He water baptized the Ephesus disciples. (Acts 19:1-6) And he points out specific people he baptized in the first chapter of 1 Corinthians. His interaction with them makes the point that water baptism is done in a name, the name of the one crucified for all of mankind. And we know that name is Jesus.

In response to your comment about Cornelius, no where in the Acts 10 account does it make mention or imply that Cornelius greatly desired to be baptized in water. However, what is clear is that Peter had no choice. He had to command they be water baptized. To neglect to command the group be water baptized would have kept the people from receiving repentance until life. This is seen in Peter's conversation with Jewish leaders in Acts 11:17-18. Peter said he could not withstand God AFTER seeing the group filled with the Holy Ghost. It was after the group received the Holy Ghost that Peter commanded them to be water baptized. Therefore Peter knew that not water baptizing the group was to go against God's command; and thus there sins would not have been remitted.

 

[Wansvic]

Peter said their hearts were purified ... white as wool, pure as the driven snow. All before any baptism with water.

Hearts being purified and sins being remitted are two different things.

 

[Wansvic]

They WERE saved when they believed only. By making something we must DO in order to be saved you are opening the door to false profession. That is exactly where the church began to go wrong. People got baptised and joined the church who never were saved, no inner work of the Holy Spirit had been done in their hearts.

But they were baptised as good as anybody else so who can bar them from the fellowship.

They come into the church unchanged full of their old ways of worldly ambition pushing to go to the top of the pile and be elected as leaders [... not to mention all their other naughty ways ] and so the church becomes as corrupt as the world.

That is why Paul so fiercely defended the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith.

If you make baptism a requirement of salvation you are as guilty as those who turned the Galatians away from the pure faith.

I say to you BEWARE.

If the group was saved the moment they believed why does the record state they were distressed and wanted to know what was required of them to rectify the situation? Furthermore, why didn't Peter just say why are you so upset? You're saved! All you had to do was believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection there is nothing else required. We know that is not what Peter said. Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. He also said that God would give them the gift of the Holy Ghost. Even though many will not accept it as the truth, that is what the word of God actually says.

 

[SophieT]

And you can believe what you want...

Though what you believe certainly has no guarantee of saving you to the uttermost;

While what I am believing does have that guarantee.

classic nah nah nah nah nah post

congratulations on your 5th birthday

 

[SophieT]

The point being made is that the scriptures referenced pertain to water baptism. Do you agree?

Acts 2:38 and 22:16 are indeed baptisms in water in the name of Jesus as other scriptures attest. Post #1747 provides additional proof that baptism in name of the Lord Jesus is in fact water baptism.

your Oneness beliefs will not allow you to be open to the truth

no one has denied water baptism. you are just blowing smoke

you create an unbiblical doctrine when you say water baptism saves

the Bible you claim to receive this information from, does not agree with you

only the blood of Christ washes away our sin.

 

[Wansvic]

classic nah nah nah nah nah post

congratulations on your 5th birthday

You really should ask yourself where an attitude such as yours actually comes from because it is certainly not any fruit of the Spirit.

 

[SophieT]

Hearts being purified and sins being remitted are two different things.

how can your heart be purified if your sins are not forgiven?

please engage your gray matter and reflect on the nonsense you have written here

smhj

 

[SophieT]

You really should ask yourself where an attitude such as yours actually comes from because it is certainly not any fruit of the Spirit.

another nah nah post

do you feel better when you do that?

 

[Wansvic]

another nah nah post

do you feel better when you do that?

You may be interested in what Jesus had to say in Luke 6:
“...a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil [a]treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

 

[Wansvic]

how can your heart be purified if your sins are not forgiven?

please engage your gray matter and reflect on the nonsense you have written here

smhj

I will be happy to respond when you can ask a question without being rude. Your appetite to ridicule people is no longer going to be fed by me.

 

[SophieT]

You may be interested in what Jesus had to say in Luke 6:
“...a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil [a]treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

I know what Jesus says which is why I refute your continued Oneness doctrine