Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy
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After we come under the blood of Jesus, by baptism, we must be committed to walking with him in truth (unleavened bread), leaving behind all falsehood (leavening). Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth” (I Corinthians 5:7,8).
Oh’ what a wonderful God we serve, who after he redeems us, tells us how the redeemed must walk to get life. Praise God! Many people believe that this feast along with God’s other Holy Days have been done away with. Why would God do away with his Perfect plan? Only Satan would promote such teaching, as he did with Adam and Eve after God had given them specific instructions. Many attempt to make this commandment too hard to fulfill, but how hard is it to change the bread you eat for one week? If we can buy a tree, haul it home, set it up and decorate it, which God never commanded, surely we can keep this feast, which he did command.
Coming under the blood of Jesus is a one time event. If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord.
Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.
Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.
Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
Paul didn’t come preaching and teaching his own thing, but he abided in the doctrine of Christ. (Rom. 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sights for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
The deeds of the law is referring to the animal sacrificial laws, all those sacrifices can never remove sins, so they could never be justified. This is true because the blood of Jesus can only justify us. The animal sacrificial laws was added because people continue to sin, and the wages of sin bring for death. So instead of God killing people every time they sin, he gave Moses a law to use, animals. So by the other law (Ten Commandments, statutes and Judgement) is the knowledge of sin.
Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law. Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.
Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship. But do they understand that they are breaking the law, one the Commandments that starts with Remember.
The deeds of the law is referring to the animal sacrificial laws, all those sacrifices can never remove sins, so they could never be justified. This is true because the blood of Jesus can only justify us. The animal sacrificial laws was added because people continue to sin, and the wages of sin bring for death. So instead of God killing people every time they sin, he gave Moses a law to use, animals. So by the other law (Ten Commandments, statutes and Judgement) is the knowledge of sin.
Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law. Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.
Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship. But do they understand that they are breaking the law, one the Commandments that starts with Remember.
Those who are of the law are under a curse; they are required to obey all of the moral tenets in the Old and New Testaments perfectly from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
Those who are forgiven, their salvation is not based on their performance (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6).
It is based solely on faith in the shed blood of Christ (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9).
Those who are forgiven, their salvation is not based on their performance (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6).
It is based solely on faith in the shed blood of Christ (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1, Romans 5:9).
As New Covenant believers, we are no longer bound by the letter of the law but have been set free to become obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).
I believe that the Old Testament sabbath day law is a type or a shadow (Colossians 2:16-17) of the substance which is Christ; as we find that Christ is our sabbath rest in Matthew 11:28-30.
I believe that the Old Testament sabbath day law is a type or a shadow (Colossians 2:16-17) of the substance which is Christ; as we find that Christ is our sabbath rest in Matthew 11:28-30.
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." - Hebrews 4:7-11 KJV
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." - Colossians 2:14-17 KJV
"No, Situation Ethics is used to undermine a truth ... You are employing Situation Ethics to do away with the Sabbath which you know full well will be kept for all eternity. " - Phoneman-777, post 805
"Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die: Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain." - Proverbs 30:7-9 KJV
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." - Galatians 2:20 KJV
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." - Philippians 2:13 KJV
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." - Proverbs 3:5 KJV
"Lord, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us." - Isaiah 26:12 KJV
"For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." - Hebrews 4:3 KJV
"For those of us who believe, faith activates the promise and we experience the realm of confident rest! For he has said,[b]" - Hebrews 4:3 TPT
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews 4:3
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." - Romans 14:5 KJV
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay," - John 9:6 KJV
"Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." - 1 Thessalonians 5:14-18 KJV
"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith." - Galatians 6:9-10 KJV
"For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." - Hebrews 4:7-11 KJV
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." - Colossians 2:14-17 KJV
"No, Situation Ethics is used to undermine a truth ... You are employing Situation Ethics to do away with the Sabbath which you know full well will be kept for all eternity. " - Phoneman-777, post 805
"Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die: Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain." - Proverbs 30:7-9 KJV
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." - Galatians 2:20 KJV
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." - Philippians 2:13 KJV
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." - Proverbs 3:5 KJV
"Lord, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us." - Isaiah 26:12 KJV
"For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." - Hebrews 4:3 KJV
"For those of us who believe, faith activates the promise and we experience the realm of confident rest! For he has said,[b]" - Hebrews 4:3 TPT
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews 4:3
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." - Romans 14:5 KJV
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay," - John 9:6 KJV
"Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." - 1 Thessalonians 5:14-18 KJV
"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith." - Galatians 6:9-10 KJV
Not doctrines of devils, but doctrines of Isaiah - he plainly says when the Lord Jesus comes in fiery judgment of the world, He's going to punish those who eat swine and abominable things, does he not?
Are we going to ignore Isaiah's words and continue in our erroneous conclusion about Paul's, or accept them and rethink our conclusions about Paul's?
Are we going to ignore Isaiah's words and continue in our erroneous conclusion about Paul's, or accept them and rethink our conclusions about Paul's?
Not always implicit, some sources explicitly make this case. NIV was an example.
I have no problem pointing out that the Talmud is antiChrist. Primary because it is explicitly antiChrist. I can't say I know enough about the Papacy to say one way or the other.
Any organization governed by mankind is inevitably going to do things that fall short of perfection, but the question comes down to the intention behind the texts. I'm not aware of anything that is explicitly antiChrist in the Greek and Roman Catholic bodies of elevated texts. But in some organizations, the root is rotten (such as the AntiChrist rhetoric in the Talmud) and therefore any organization driven by that body of elevated texts is necessarily antiChrist.
I'm sure the money-changers thrown out of the temple called Jesus a bigot too.
Who was advocating that Sunday was sacred above all other days? No one in this thread that I'm aware of.
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." - Romans 14:5 KJV
And if we look at scripture in the New Testament, we see that advise is given to be tolerant and not make an issue over non-essential traditions and rituals that other fellow believers may have taken part in. There is guidance in Romans 14 not partake of things that others of the faith considered unclean in their presence.
"And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven." - Acts 10:11-16 KJV
Let's focus on a few things here.
Acts 10:14 lists "common" (koinon) and "unclean" (akatharton).
In Acts 10:15, we see the response is to not call anything "common/impure" (koinou) which has been "cleansed" (ekatharisen) by God.
You might notice that "akatharton" comes from the root "a-" (not) and "katharos" (clean), and "ekatharisen" is antonymous.
Cool speculation.
If we look at the Hebrew:
"So Moses was there with Yahweh forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. [He wrote] on the tablets the words of the covenant - the Ten Commandments." - Exodus 34:28 (Strong's?)
We see a concept in scripture where God can work through people to perform actions. Where the first tablets were written by the finger of God, we don't see this description repeated (where a repeated description would be typical).
"And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:" - Acts 19:11 KJV
It was explicitly the case that God wrote the first tablets using his finger, there is good reason to believe that God wrote the second tablets through the hands of Moses.
If the basis of your interpretation was that somehow the Mosaic ten commandments were somehow above the rest of scripture due to having a direct physical interaction with the finger of God. It isn't explicitly said that way.
All scripture comes from God (2 Tim 3:16).
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"However, when the work changed from 'emergency' to 'routine', it is then I told my supervisors I could not longer report to work on Sabbath." - Phoneman-777, post 819
I've shown you that the word "unclean" should have been translated "common". Paul knew full well that "clean/unclean" yet remained a thing in the NT by quoting "touch not the unclean thing".[/quote]
Things are "unclean" to those that esteem that thing unclean. With the blotting of the ordinances of the OT, "unclean" and "common" are functionally the same thing: things unfit to consume or interact with.
Do you have a specific passage for this? Prophecy and parables are interesting for the fact that they can refer to things that aren't literal representations. In the parable of the sheep and goats, this is obviously not speaking of literal sheep and goats. But the prophetic parable uses the unruly nature of goats and the obedient nature of sheep to illustrate a temperament of the people that are being described. If a future generation existed where all sheep and goats were extinct and knowledge of them was gone, much of the context would be lost. (So too we might find instances where selective breeding of certain animals might change the characteristic behaviour nature and therefore cause a drift between what the parable intends to convey and how it is interpreted. Chickens, cows, goats, sheep, etc. of 1000's of years ago aren't necessarily the same as those of today.)
Likewise, with swine flesh, to the immediate target audience of the message, swine was seen as something that was without question unclean. But it may only be a metaphor for unclean things and not specifically about the literal case of swine-flesh.
I understand that you are trying to break the categories into "unclean", "common", and "clean" and that can be discussed further, but the reference to swineflesh in say Isaiah 66:17 isn't necessarily about literal swineflesh.
If the passage isn't a prophecy full of metaphors, you probably would have a great case for stating that. If we're talking about Isaiah 66:17, no, it is not necessarily the case the swine's flesh is a literal reference.
I have no problem pointing out that the Talmud is antiChrist. Primary because it is explicitly antiChrist. I can't say I know enough about the Papacy to say one way or the other.
Any organization governed by mankind is inevitably going to do things that fall short of perfection, but the question comes down to the intention behind the texts. I'm not aware of anything that is explicitly antiChrist in the Greek and Roman Catholic bodies of elevated texts. But in some organizations, the root is rotten (such as the AntiChrist rhetoric in the Talmud) and therefore any organization driven by that body of elevated texts is necessarily antiChrist.
I'm sure the money-changers thrown out of the temple called Jesus a bigot too.
Who was advocating that Sunday was sacred above all other days? No one in this thread that I'm aware of.
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." - Romans 14:5 KJV
And if we look at scripture in the New Testament, we see that advise is given to be tolerant and not make an issue over non-essential traditions and rituals that other fellow believers may have taken part in. There is guidance in Romans 14 not partake of things that others of the faith considered unclean in their presence.
"And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven." - Acts 10:11-16 KJV
Let's focus on a few things here.
Acts 10:14 lists "common" (koinon) and "unclean" (akatharton).
In Acts 10:15, we see the response is to not call anything "common/impure" (koinou) which has been "cleansed" (ekatharisen) by God.
You might notice that "akatharton" comes from the root "a-" (not) and "katharos" (clean), and "ekatharisen" is antonymous.
Cool speculation.
If we look at the Hebrew:
"So Moses was there with Yahweh forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. [He wrote] on the tablets the words of the covenant - the Ten Commandments." - Exodus 34:28 (Strong's?)
We see a concept in scripture where God can work through people to perform actions. Where the first tablets were written by the finger of God, we don't see this description repeated (where a repeated description would be typical).
"And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:" - Acts 19:11 KJV
It was explicitly the case that God wrote the first tablets using his finger, there is good reason to believe that God wrote the second tablets through the hands of Moses.
If the basis of your interpretation was that somehow the Mosaic ten commandments were somehow above the rest of scripture due to having a direct physical interaction with the finger of God. It isn't explicitly said that way.
All scripture comes from God (2 Tim 3:16).
"It has ALWAYS been lawful to do good on the Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, post 806
"However, when the work changed from 'emergency' to 'routine', it is then I told my supervisors I could not longer report to work on Sabbath." - Phoneman-777, post 819
I've shown you that the word "unclean" should have been translated "common". Paul knew full well that "clean/unclean" yet remained a thing in the NT by quoting "touch not the unclean thing".[/quote]
Things are "unclean" to those that esteem that thing unclean. With the blotting of the ordinances of the OT, "unclean" and "common" are functionally the same thing: things unfit to consume or interact with.
Do you have a specific passage for this? Prophecy and parables are interesting for the fact that they can refer to things that aren't literal representations. In the parable of the sheep and goats, this is obviously not speaking of literal sheep and goats. But the prophetic parable uses the unruly nature of goats and the obedient nature of sheep to illustrate a temperament of the people that are being described. If a future generation existed where all sheep and goats were extinct and knowledge of them was gone, much of the context would be lost. (So too we might find instances where selective breeding of certain animals might change the characteristic behaviour nature and therefore cause a drift between what the parable intends to convey and how it is interpreted. Chickens, cows, goats, sheep, etc. of 1000's of years ago aren't necessarily the same as those of today.)
Likewise, with swine flesh, to the immediate target audience of the message, swine was seen as something that was without question unclean. But it may only be a metaphor for unclean things and not specifically about the literal case of swine-flesh.
I understand that you are trying to break the categories into "unclean", "common", and "clean" and that can be discussed further, but the reference to swineflesh in say Isaiah 66:17 isn't necessarily about literal swineflesh.
If the passage isn't a prophecy full of metaphors, you probably would have a great case for stating that. If we're talking about Isaiah 66:17, no, it is not necessarily the case the swine's flesh is a literal reference.
It would be nice if you did understand what the experts say.
It would be nice if you were consistent with your own arguments.
Here's what I thought you were trying to say before you said that line:
"Common describes something that can be ceremonially made clean, but unclean describes something that cannot be made clean... Romans 14's references are only about things which in the OT would be considered common but OT references to things that are unclean are still unclean" - attempted paraphrase
I would have disagreed with that position, but now it looks like you've changed your tune?
Let's call it unclean for a moment, in line with KJV. Romans 14 doesn't say "unclean things are an illusion, nothing is unclean to anyone." No, Romans 14 says explicitly to avoid the things that appear unclean to you (if you esteem them to be unclean, they are unclean to you). The last verse in Romans 14 states explicitly not to eat something if you are doubtful of it.
"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." - Romans 14:23 KJV
Romans 14 is a deeper discussion about the situation ethics of partaking of things that are circumstantially unfit for a person, depending on how their faith guides them.
It is entirely possible there are salient facts hidden in the mess of contradictions that you have presented. Calling your opinions facts doesn't help the situation.
Considering you have said this in response to my criticism of granting authority to bodies of text outside of scripture (the Christian Bible), I wonder if that is an affirmation that you have drawn from texts that aren't the inspired word and have confused the matter in manner circumstances.
Some bodies of text might represent valid schools of thought that spread from the source material. Other texts are completely incompatible.
I cited the Greek and Strong's interpretation many times. If you're argument is with Strong's, by all mean, fire away. Strong's isn't an infallible authority. I'm open to learning more about disagreements between translators if they exist.
I don't think that was what you are getting at with this. I think you just didn't look at what I wrote.
It depends on the texts you are drawing from. If it's an antiChrist text, you're probably going to have a hard time integrating that into a valid Christian interpretation, and ultimately that interpretation will not be without contradiction.
The Word of God is Christ. The typical meal blessing is something along the lines of "Come Lord Jesus, be our guest, and let these gifts to us be bless. Amen."
Nothing is done without Christ.
And there you go again trying to cut Christ out of the picture and attempt to replace Him with the ordinances of the OT law.
Agreed. But Christ may work through us to do these things. Even in some circumstances where one does a moment of goodness in Christ and then flips the next moment to evil things.
"But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part." - Mark 9:39-40 KJV
"I was convicted by the Holy Spirit to be lawful 'doing good' on Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, Post 819
In your view, is it impossible for anyone but you to be able to commune with the Holy Spirit when determining what is considered a good work?
If I feel compelled to do something and you feel compelled to do the opposite thing, is it necessarily the case that only one of our convictions is from the Holy Spirit and the other's isn't? No.
It may be the case that the brain signals sent to the left foot and right foot appear to contradict each other, but by moving in different directions a greater thing is achieved. It may also be the case that your conviction to rest on the Sabbath in according to your internal compass, and by someone else's conviction to do good works on the Sabbath that both parties may be right. The fulfilment interpretation fully addresses that situation.
It would be nice if you were consistent with your own arguments.
Here's what I thought you were trying to say before you said that line:
"Common describes something that can be ceremonially made clean, but unclean describes something that cannot be made clean... Romans 14's references are only about things which in the OT would be considered common but OT references to things that are unclean are still unclean" - attempted paraphrase
I would have disagreed with that position, but now it looks like you've changed your tune?
Let's call it unclean for a moment, in line with KJV. Romans 14 doesn't say "unclean things are an illusion, nothing is unclean to anyone." No, Romans 14 says explicitly to avoid the things that appear unclean to you (if you esteem them to be unclean, they are unclean to you). The last verse in Romans 14 states explicitly not to eat something if you are doubtful of it.
"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." - Romans 14:23 KJV
Romans 14 is a deeper discussion about the situation ethics of partaking of things that are circumstantially unfit for a person, depending on how their faith guides them.
It is entirely possible there are salient facts hidden in the mess of contradictions that you have presented. Calling your opinions facts doesn't help the situation.
Considering you have said this in response to my criticism of granting authority to bodies of text outside of scripture (the Christian Bible), I wonder if that is an affirmation that you have drawn from texts that aren't the inspired word and have confused the matter in manner circumstances.
Some bodies of text might represent valid schools of thought that spread from the source material. Other texts are completely incompatible.
I cited the Greek and Strong's interpretation many times. If you're argument is with Strong's, by all mean, fire away. Strong's isn't an infallible authority. I'm open to learning more about disagreements between translators if they exist.
I don't think that was what you are getting at with this. I think you just didn't look at what I wrote.
It depends on the texts you are drawing from. If it's an antiChrist text, you're probably going to have a hard time integrating that into a valid Christian interpretation, and ultimately that interpretation will not be without contradiction.
The Word of God is Christ. The typical meal blessing is something along the lines of "Come Lord Jesus, be our guest, and let these gifts to us be bless. Amen."
Nothing is done without Christ.
And there you go again trying to cut Christ out of the picture and attempt to replace Him with the ordinances of the OT law.
Agreed. But Christ may work through us to do these things. Even in some circumstances where one does a moment of goodness in Christ and then flips the next moment to evil things.
"But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part." - Mark 9:39-40 KJV
"I was convicted by the Holy Spirit to be lawful 'doing good' on Sabbath" - Phoneman-777, Post 819
In your view, is it impossible for anyone but you to be able to commune with the Holy Spirit when determining what is considered a good work?
If I feel compelled to do something and you feel compelled to do the opposite thing, is it necessarily the case that only one of our convictions is from the Holy Spirit and the other's isn't? No.
It may be the case that the brain signals sent to the left foot and right foot appear to contradict each other, but by moving in different directions a greater thing is achieved. It may also be the case that your conviction to rest on the Sabbath in according to your internal compass, and by someone else's conviction to do good works on the Sabbath that both parties may be right. The fulfilment interpretation fully addresses that situation.