How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[peldom10]

Satan has always been limited as to what he can do! In fact, we learn in the book of Job that he has to get permission from God to do anything, especially what he can do to a believer!

But look around to what is happening in this world and tell me who reigning on this earth, Christ or Satan?

Of course God's will is taking place, Jesus told us in Matt. 24, don't worry about these things taking place, for these things must come to pass. Jesus is telling us that Satan running wild on earth through evil men is the will of God to bring about the timing of God's plan for the world.

So you see, God is in complete control, but Satan is running wild doing what he does to prepare the world for the end when God wrap up His plan for man on this earth.

Christ....without question.

We must remember God has told us what lies ahead and...be ready...death...or pre-tribulation conditions....etc. For example....the Bible says in the end times there will..."great (not some or a few) deceptions". et al.
What are we seeing...same sex marriage...homosexuality is ok, universalism, OSAS, baptism is not required, no need to follow God's commandments under NC/NT (per a well known ohio tv ministry recently) new age religion bible editions (all since 1960's) slanting and outright miss leading God's word and intent. No evidence is found of these new age religion interpretations before 1960.

What we are seeing is satan playing a part ...as allowed...and that leads some to believe, as we see here that satan is king in charge. That is very miss leading to the Bible novice and/or new follower of Christ.

We must always keep writings and interpretive conclusions in context.

 

[Charlie24]

Christ....without question.

We must remember God has told us what lies ahead and...be ready...death...or pre-tribulation conditions....etc. For example....the Bible says in the end times there will..."great (not some or a few) deceptions". et al.
What are we seeing...same sex marriage...homosexuality is ok, universalism, OSAS, baptism is not required, no need to follow God's commandments under NC/NT (per a well known ohio tv ministry recently) new age religion bible editions (all since 1960's) slanting and outright miss leading God's word and intent. No evidence is found of these new age religion interpretations before 1960.

What we are seeing is satan playing a part ...as allowed...and that leads some to believe, as we see here that satan is king in charge. That is very miss leading to the Bible novice and/or new follower of Christ.

We must always keep writings and interpretive conclusions in context.

With the proper explanation the new believer in Christ will easily understand, and needs to udserstand.

 

[DavidTree]

Im not sure what point your addressing— ive previously said he still has power to do evil, however he was figuratively bound at the cross when Christ defeated sin and death for all time!

Christ, Himself overcame Death because HE committed no sin therefore Death could not hold Him.
"whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it." Acts 2:24

“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." Revelation 1:17

Do people still die today - YES
Do Saints still die today - YES
Has Death been finally defeated once and for all - NO
Will Death be finally defeated once and for all - YES

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,
when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
1 Cor 15:20-26

 

[1ofthem]

Ok, the Millennial Kingdom is something I won't even pretend to be an expert on. Truth is I need much study in this area.

Honestly, though it doesn't seem to fit as happening after the tribulation according to the rest of the scriptures.

I may be mistaken but I hear people saying ....at the end of tribulation, Satan is going to be locked up...while the world just starts over (with only the saints and those in Christ who are saved) and then after 1000 years, Satan is going to be loosed to deceive the nations.

The dead in Christ will have rose again and the ones who make it through the tribulation will all be saved and changed in a twinkling of an eye.

So, who is he going to deceive after that point? Makes no sense to me.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @1ofthem , see if a post I just made over in another thread will help you see our perspective on that (your question) ^ :

Post #1828 - https://christianchat.com/threads/j...rapture-stop-causing-fear.199566/post-4721738






Also, see my posts regarding how Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth) correlates with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which the TWO "PUNISH" words / events are separated by "TIME" (just as Revelation 19-20 [and other passages] depicts there to be)

See the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24 (in v.21 and then in v.22b... separated by a period of "TIME") - https://biblehub.com/bsb/isaiah/24.htm

 

[1ofthem]

And I think I saw where some were talking about how the earth would need to be repopulated.....Why exactly would the earth need to be repopulated after the tribulation and the resurrection?

Jesus said there is no marrying of giving into marriage in the resurrection. We will be like the angels in heaven.

So, there is another big question I have. After the resurrection of the dead and the others are all changed in a twinkling of an eye...who would be repopulating the earth? And why exactly, if the earth is already going to be dissolved and destroyed.

 

[1ofthem]

^ @1ofthem , see if a post I just made over in another thread will help you see our perspective on that (your question) ^ :

Post #1828 - https://christianchat.com/threads/j...rapture-stop-causing-fear.199566/post-4721738






Also, see my posts regarding how Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth) correlates with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which the TWO "PUNISH" words / events are separated by "TIME" (just as Revelation 19-20 [and other passages] depicts there to be)

Thanks, I will check it out.

I have many questions about a literal MK after the tribulation so thanks for the info.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And I think I saw where some were talking about how the earth would need to be repopulated.....Why exactly would the earth need to be repopulated after the resurrection?
Jesus said there is no marrying of giving into marriage in the resurrection. We will be like the angels in heaven.
So, there is another big question I have. After the resurrection of the dead and the others are all changed in a twinkling of an eye...who would be repopulating the earth? And why exactly, if the earth is already going to be dissolved and destroyed.

What I advise people to do when reading Peter's words in 2Pet3:10-12, is to go back and read BOTH CHPTS of Isaiah 34-35; as opposed to just considering the one verse (Isaiah 34:4) extracted out from its wider context.

= )

Thanks, I will check it out.

I have many questions about a literal MK after the tribulation so thanks for the info.

My pleasure. = )

 

[DavidTree]

Ok, the Millennial Kingdom is something I won't even pretend to be an expert on. Truth is I need much study in this area.

Honestly, though it doesn't seem to fit as happening after the tribulation according to the rest of the scriptures.

I may be mistaken but I hear people saying ....at the end of tribulation, Satan is going to be locked up...while the world just starts over (with only the saints and those in Christ who are saved) and then after 1000 years, Satan is going to be loosed to deceive the nations.

The dead in Christ will have rose again and the ones who make it through the tribulation will all be saved and changed in a twinkling of an eye.

So, who is he going to deceive after that point? Makes no sense to me.

God started with just two, Adam & Eve, to populate the world from the beginning.

Then God had to destroy the world in Noah's day and God repopulated the world with 4 Marriages.

When the Lord comes back HE will not destroy every living soul on earth. He will leave some to repopulate.

“I will punish the world for its evil,
And the wicked for their iniquity;
I will halt the arrogance of the proud,
And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold,
A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.
Therefore I will shake the heavens,
And the earth will move out of her place,
In the wrath of the Lord of hosts
And in the day of His fierce anger.
Isaiah 13

Many will die, but not all.

Jesus said the same: Matt 24:22
"And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened."

God is merciful and will spare some as HE chooses. These will be the benefit from the LORD shortening the days for the Elect's sake.

The mistake that some make is thinking that everyone is killed except for the Saints.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days" Daniel 12:12 (i.e. "still-living" at the time surrounding Christ's "RETURN" to the earth to set up His kingdom).

This corresponds with about 8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking of the point in time of their ENTRANCE in to the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age. Jesus also spoke of this particular point throughout the Gospels (many times).

I know of no passage showing non-believers ENTERING the MK age (which will commence upon Christ's Second Coming to the earth--i.e. His "RETURN" to the earth--The "wrath of God" having been applied to all those unbelievers, by the point in time of when the MK age will commence).

 

[Runningman]

I certainly do, with several overlaps!

It's not writtn in chronological sequence. I know you'll reject that because the survival of your pre-trib rapture doctrine depends on Revelation being totally chronological from beginning to end. I predict that even after I prove to you that your understanding of Revelation is incorrect, you'll refuse to budge an inch. So let's get started.

A comparison between the 7th Trumpet (Chapter 11) and 7th Vial (Chapter 16) reveals that they are the same, singular event. Add to this comparison the 6th Seal (Chapter 6), Ezekiel 38:18-22, and Matthew 24:29 and we find that all five of these passages describe the exact same event. The 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial is one event that is described in Chapter 6, again in Chapter 11, and again in 16.

 

[Charlie24]

Christ....without question.

We must remember God has told us what lies ahead and...be ready...death...or pre-tribulation conditions....etc. For example....the Bible says in the end times there will..."great (not some or a few) deceptions". et al.
What are we seeing...same sex marriage...homosexuality is ok, universalism, OSAS, baptism is not required, no need to follow God's commandments under NC/NT (per a well known ohio tv ministry recently) new age religion bible editions (all since 1960's) slanting and outright miss leading God's word and intent. No evidence is found of these new age religion interpretations before 1960.

What we are seeing is satan playing a part ...as allowed...and that leads some to believe, as we see here that satan is king in charge. That is very miss leading to the Bible novice and/or new follower of Christ.

We must always keep writings and interpretive conclusions in context.

With the proper explanation the new believer in Christ will easily understand, and needs to udserstand.

It's not writtn in chronological sequence. I know you'll reject that because the survival of your pre-trib rapture doctrine depends on Revelation being totally chronological from beginning to end. I predict that even after I prove to you that your understanding of Revelation is incorrect, you'll refuse to budge an inch. So let's get started.

A comparison between the 7th Trumpet (Chapter 11) and 7th Vial (Chapter 16) reveals that they are the same, singular event. Add to this comparison the 6th Seal (Chapter 6), Ezekiel 38:18-22, and Matthew 24:29 and we find that all five of these passages describe the exact same event. The 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial is one event that is described in Chapter 6, again in Chapter 11, and again in 16.

When you read the book of Revelation, you will find it begins in Johns day and ends with the new earth.

It is therefore a consecutive order of events. There are many overlaps of events that bleed over into other events.

There are events that are carried over in other events more than once, as you have nicely pointed out.

I can tell you from reading this book many times, if you don't take it in consecutive order as given, you will have a hodge podge of misunderstanding and misinterpretation that boggles the mind.

Just look at what some done with this book (insanity) all because they have failed to take it consecutively.

 

[Laura798]

Christ, Himself overcame Death because HE committed no sin therefore Death could not hold Him.
"whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it." Acts 2:24

“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." Revelation 1:17

Do people still die today - YES
Do Saints still die today - YES
Has Death been finally defeated once and for all - NO
Will Death be finally defeated once and for all - YES

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,
when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
1 Cor 15:20-26

Still not sure your point— yes people die yes theres still evil, but those who have believed are sealed by the HS as a guarantee— like a promisary note— its DONE. Or like holding a winning lotto ticket— no money in hand but its yours! You just have to wait. Only if a person willingly turns away will they lose the gift of eternal life. This is an absolutely vital truth of the gospel.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I can tell you from reading this book many times, if you don't take it in consecutive order as given, you will have a hodge podge of misunderstanding and misinterpretation that boggles the mind.

That's correct. And the key is right there in front of everyone. Seven seals in consecutive order lead to seven trumpets in consecutive order lead to seven vials in consecutive order. And nothing is to be spiritualized. Yes there are symbols but they are also explained. The seven stars are the seven angels and the seven candlesticks (or lampstands) are seven churches. The 144,000 are literally 12,000 redeemed Jews from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. And they are raptured to Heaven.

The one thousand years of the Millennium are literally one thousand years (chilia ete). The 1260 days of the Antichrist are literally 1260 days (42 months or 3 1/2 years). But there is no general Resurrection/Rapture presented in the book of Revelation. The two resurrected prophets in Revelation 11 are indeed taken up to Heaven, and John being taken up to Heaven is simply that. And "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week) is not "the day of the LORD" (the Great Tribulation).

 

[DavidTree]

Still not sure your point— yes people die yes theres still evil, but those who have believed are sealed by the HS as a guarantee— like a promisary note— its DONE. Or like holding a winning lotto ticket— no money in hand but its yours! You just have to wait. Only if a person willingly turns away will they lose the gift of eternal life. This is an absolutely vital truth of the gospel.

A.) This is the emphasis: ORDER of EVENTS
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,
when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
1 Cor 15:20-26

B.) His Second Coming has not yet occurred - therefore the Thousand Year Period has not yet occurred.
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands.
And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ,
and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:5-6

C.) After the Thousand Years have expired - Revelation 20:7-8

When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

D.) The last enemy, Death, will be finally destroyed - Revelation 20:11-15
Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.
And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Charlie24]

That's correct. And the key is right there in front of everyone. Seven seals in consecutive order lead to seven trumpets in consecutive order lead to seven vials in consecutive order. And nothing is to be spiritualized. Yes there are symbols but they are also explained. The seven stars are the seven angels and the seven candlesticks (or lampstands) are seven churches. The 144,000 are literally 12,000 redeemed Jews from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. And they are raptured to Heaven.

The one thousand years of the Millennium are literally one thousand years (chilia ete). The 1260 days of the Antichrist are literally 1260 days (42 months or 3 1/2 years). But there is no general Resurrection/Rapture presented in the book of Revelation. John being taken up to Heaven is simply that. And "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week) is not "the day of the LORD" (the Great Tribulation).

Well said, Nehemiah!

 

[DavidTree]

That's correct. And the key is right there in front of everyone. Seven seals in consecutive order lead to seven trumpets in consecutive order lead to seven vials in consecutive order. And nothing is to be spiritualized. Yes there are symbols but they are also explained. The seven stars are the seven angels and the seven candlesticks (or lampstands) are seven churches. The 144,000 are literally 12,000 redeemed Jews from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. And they are raptured to Heaven.

The one thousand years of the Millennium are literally one thousand years (chilia ete). The 1260 days of the Antichrist are literally 1260 days (42 months or 3 1/2 years). But there is no general Resurrection/Rapture presented in the book of Revelation. The two resurrected prophets in Revelation 11 are indeed taken up to Heaven, and John being taken up to Heaven is simply that. And "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week) is not "the day of the LORD" (the Great Tribulation).

You said: "But there is no general Resurrection/Rapture presented in the book of Revelation."
WHY - Why do you say this??? This is a outright lie against the word of the LORD Jesus Christ.


Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands.
And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ,
and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6

 

[Laura798]

A.) This is the emphasis: ORDER of EVENTS
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,
when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
1 Cor 15:20-26

B.) His Second Coming has not yet occurred - therefore the Thousand Year Period has not yet occurred.
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands.
And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ,
and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:5-6

C.) After the Thousand Years have expired - Revelation 20:7-8

When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

D.) The last enemy, Death, will be finally destroyed - Revelation 20:11-15
Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.
And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This we will have to agree to disagree on as the literal verses say immediately after His coming is the judgment— the wicked are destroyed andlast enemy deathis destroyed along present heavens and earth. Miilenial reign is no where else in Scripture other rev. I go by the literal verses always first

 

[Nehemiah6]

You said: "But there is no general Resurrection/Rapture presented in the book of Revelation."
WHY - Why do you say this??? This is a outright lie against the word of the LORD Jesus Christ.

An "outright lie"? Show us what corresponds to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 in Revelation. We need an EXACT CORRESPONDENCE not an imaginary fantasy.

 

[DavidTree]

This we will have to agree to disagree on as the literal verses say immediately after His coming is the judgment— thecwicked are destroyed andlast enemy deathis destroyed along present heavens and earth. Miilenial reign us no where else in Scripture other rev. I go by the literal verses always first

Revelation are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ and Chapter 20 is LITERAL.

A.) His Second Coming MUST come before the Thousand Year Reign

B.) Christ Ascended back to the Father about 2,000 Years ago

C.) Thousand Year Periods of Time are LITERAL.