Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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Rename it what it really is if you cant process " rapture"
Insert " gathering of the bride" or "Gathering of elect" or " gathering of His Church"
Then reject and refuse Jesus illustration of a gathering of his people.
You have a very hard job refuting Gods Holy Word.
I would not continue to do so if I were you.
Very bad what you are compelled to do... All for a very poorly thought out doctrine.
Insert " gathering of the bride" or "Gathering of elect" or " gathering of His Church"
Then reject and refuse Jesus illustration of a gathering of his people.
You have a very hard job refuting Gods Holy Word.
I would not continue to do so if I were you.
Very bad what you are compelled to do... All for a very poorly thought out doctrine.
FreeGrace2 said:
SAY WHAT?????
Please quote a verse that says what you claim.
It is clear that you aren't reading ANY translation.
Thanks for admitting that.
No, you only think so. What verse indicates that Lot is a "type" of anything? I'll wait.
SAY WHAT?????
Please quote a verse that says what you claim.
It is clear that you aren't reading ANY translation.
Thanks for admitting that.
No, you only think so. What verse indicates that Lot is a "type" of anything? I'll wait.
FreeGrace2 said:
Seems you are really really desperate to try to find anything that you can squint hard enough and see "rapture".
Sure.
Wow. A rather inflated view of onself, I see. You haven't forced me to do anything. Only in your fantasies.
Huh? So when is noting how desperate another is "going personal"? It's just a fact.
In your fantasies. You've been given all the very clear and unambiguous verses that plainly SAY what I believe. That's why I am so convinced.
It's your side that has no clear and unambiguous verses that SAY what you claim.
So you have to drag out parables and FORCE your "types" into verses.
How about just quoting verses rather than capitalizing what you "think" they say.
Seems you are really really desperate to try to find anything that you can squint hard enough and see "rapture".
Sure.
Wow. A rather inflated view of onself, I see. You haven't forced me to do anything. Only in your fantasies.
Huh? So when is noting how desperate another is "going personal"? It's just a fact.
In your fantasies. You've been given all the very clear and unambiguous verses that plainly SAY what I believe. That's why I am so convinced.
It's your side that has no clear and unambiguous verses that SAY what you claim.
So you have to drag out parables and FORCE your "types" into verses.
How about just quoting verses rather than capitalizing what you "think" they say.
Noah built a boat and ENTERED into it. Prove that is a gathering.
You're just seeing things that aren't there. Show me a verse that says Noah was gathered into the ark.
Actually, he came right back to where he started.
Prove that he did. lol
I don't need to refute the Bible. I only need, and have, refuted your opinions.
Why don't you? I DO that all the time.
Show me the changes, or you are a liar.
You're just seeing things that aren't there. Show me a verse that says Noah was gathered into the ark.
Actually, he came right back to where he started.
Prove that he did. lol
I don't need to refute the Bible. I only need, and have, refuted your opinions.
Why don't you? I DO that all the time.
Show me the changes, or you are a liar.
I know you guys are not interested in the bride/groom dynamic, but this link , if viewed outside ones preconcieved format is fascinating.
You will never view communion the same.
http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/marriage.htm
this link still works
You will never view communion the same.
http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/marriage.htm
this link still works
"""Noah built a boat and ENTERED into it. Prove that is a gathering.
You're just seeing things that aren't there. Show me a verse that says Noah was gathered into the ark."""
Websters 1828 dictionary;
GATH'ER, verb transitive
1. To bring together; to collect a number of separate things into one place or into one aggregate body.
5. To assemble; to congregate; to bring persons into one place. Ezekiel 22:19.
6. To collect in abundance; to accumulate; to amass.
I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings. Ecclesiastes 2:26.
7. To select and take; to separate from others and bring together.
Save us, O Lord our God, and gather us from among the heathen. Psalms 106:47.
8. To sweep together.
The kingdom of heaven is like a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind. Matthew 13:28.
9. To bring into one body or interest.
Yet will I gather others to him. Isaiah 56:8.
(Not that you will actually acknowledge.)
"The woman gathered up her children and left in the car."
Postribber;
" no she didnt, they all walked over and got in"
Facepalm
You're just seeing things that aren't there. Show me a verse that says Noah was gathered into the ark."""
Websters 1828 dictionary;
GATH'ER, verb transitive
1. To bring together; to collect a number of separate things into one place or into one aggregate body.
5. To assemble; to congregate; to bring persons into one place. Ezekiel 22:19.
6. To collect in abundance; to accumulate; to amass.
I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings. Ecclesiastes 2:26.
7. To select and take; to separate from others and bring together.
Save us, O Lord our God, and gather us from among the heathen. Psalms 106:47.
8. To sweep together.
The kingdom of heaven is like a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind. Matthew 13:28.
9. To bring into one body or interest.
Yet will I gather others to him. Isaiah 56:8.
(Not that you will actually acknowledge.)
"The woman gathered up her children and left in the car."
Postribber;
" no she didnt, they all walked over and got in"
Facepalm
Uh...wow...
You are getting all messed up and ...once again refuting Jesus EXAMPLE of instruction.
AHEM..." Type" vs "anti type"
You really going to park there???
Refuting scripture???
Let me help you once again;
Websters 1828 dictionary
TYPE, noun [Latin typus; Gr. from the root of tap; to beat, strike, impress.]
1. The mark of something; an emblem; that which represents something else.
A sign; a symbol; a figure of something to come; as, Abraham's sacrifice and the paschal lamb, were types of Christ. To this word is opposed antitype. Christ, in this case, is the antitype.
TYPE, verb transitive To prefigure; to represent by a model or symbol beforehand. [Little Used.]
The bible is FILLED with types.
There is barely a page in the book of hebrews without types.i am beginning to see the root of your error.
An interesting question;
Are all postribbers deficient in the study of types?
I am thinking those bible types God inserted are very harmful to that doctrine
You are getting all messed up and ...once again refuting Jesus EXAMPLE of instruction.
AHEM..." Type" vs "anti type"
You really going to park there???
Refuting scripture???
Let me help you once again;
Websters 1828 dictionary
TYPE, noun [Latin typus; Gr. from the root of tap; to beat, strike, impress.]
1. The mark of something; an emblem; that which represents something else.
A sign; a symbol; a figure of something to come; as, Abraham's sacrifice and the paschal lamb, were types of Christ. To this word is opposed antitype. Christ, in this case, is the antitype.
TYPE, verb transitive To prefigure; to represent by a model or symbol beforehand. [Little Used.]
The bible is FILLED with types.
There is barely a page in the book of hebrews without types.i am beginning to see the root of your error.
An interesting question;
Are all postribbers deficient in the study of types?
I am thinking those bible types God inserted are very harmful to that doctrine
Ok lets use your refuting of my examples of Lot and baby Jesus removed prejudgement
Lets agree with your superior assesment that lot was not removed but stayed in sodom where he was protected.
Please show us your verse.
And where The baby Jesus stayed and was protected from the slaughter.
He never left for egypt. He stayed and was protected correct..?
Yes do show us the examples you desperately need to promote you refuting of my no brainers.
Do show us your changes to the bible please.
Lets agree with your superior assesment that lot was not removed but stayed in sodom where he was protected.
Please show us your verse.
And where The baby Jesus stayed and was protected from the slaughter.
He never left for egypt. He stayed and was protected correct..?
Yes do show us the examples you desperately need to promote you refuting of my no brainers.
Do show us your changes to the bible please.
Me. "Show me where he ( noah) did not rise up into the clouds."
Fg. "Prove that he did. lol"
This is ignorance gone to seed.
Ok lets once again play out your ridiculous objections.
Your deal must go something like this..."Noah even though the surface Of the water covered the highest mountain. Was never atop those waters.
His boat stayed right there on earth.
He never rose into the clouds via the flood waters."
That is where false doctrine leads.
You have made a fool of yourself.
That postrib rapture beast took you guys into the wilderness and died.
Left you afoot and wondering around in what you thought was a playground.
You twist and twist on rabbit trails.
Come out of that confusion! And into solid bible doctrine.!!!
You are so confused i have to look up simple definitions.... and you see types God placed in the Holy Bible as some bogey man.
Whew....what a trap you guys are in.
Sad
Fg. "Prove that he did. lol"
This is ignorance gone to seed.
Ok lets once again play out your ridiculous objections.
Your deal must go something like this..."Noah even though the surface Of the water covered the highest mountain. Was never atop those waters.
His boat stayed right there on earth.
He never rose into the clouds via the flood waters."
That is where false doctrine leads.
You have made a fool of yourself.
That postrib rapture beast took you guys into the wilderness and died.
Left you afoot and wondering around in what you thought was a playground.
You twist and twist on rabbit trails.
Come out of that confusion! And into solid bible doctrine.!!!
You are so confused i have to look up simple definitions.... and you see types God placed in the Holy Bible as some bogey man.
Whew....what a trap you guys are in.
Sad
I get it: YOU are allowed to explain verses [meaning change what they really say] , but pretribbers are not allowed. Sorry, but I already knew that is how this works.
How can a Greek Aorist verb show something ABOUT to happen? It has no tense or timing included.
Anyone can claim John's use of Aorist verbs are either past tense or future tense. The truth is, they have no tense. All through the book, John writes events on his timeline at the very moment that event happens. When John write, the Day of His wrath is come, it means right then, at the time of the verse compared to the complete narrative.
Just as you are doing, some want to mess with the timing of Wrath and say it is just about to come, but not in chapter 6 - it comes later. Since John uses Aorist verbs almost exclusively, people can make the book say almost anything by twisting it.
Others want to change when the Two Witnesses show up. John's first mention of them is in chapter 11. Many imagine they really showed up at the beginning of the week, rather than just before the midpoint, imagining their testimony is for the first half of the week. But here John used FUTURE TENSE verbs - showing us that they showed up at the verse of first mention and their testimony is then FUTURE from that date.
Of course the marriage and supper have to wait for both the Bride and all the guests, which will be every participant of the first resurrection: the Bride of Christ, and the Old Testament saints, which will include the Two Witnesses and the martyrs of the Beasts. Since the martyrs of the Beast will be resurrected with the OT saints on the last dya of the week, at the 7th vial, the marriage is postponed until AFTER the 7th vial resurrection.
I guess you don't read much, or just don't believe the testimonies of the many who have died, gone to heaven, SAW with their own eyes the preparations for the marriage supper - tables spread as far as the eye can see along the River of life. Each table has chairs and NAMES of the saints who are to sit there. Some of these people have seen this and been told the preparations are all finished - heaven is now just waiting on the saints to arrive. These people got prayed back to their bodies so had to leave heaven.
Since these testimonies AGREE with scripture, I believe them. Here is one such testimony: 7 Columbia youths visited heaven: "We also could see the wedding banquet table, everything was already served. It had no beginning or end. We saw the chairs prepared for us. There was also crowns of eternal life that are ready to be taken by us. We saw delicious foods that are already set, for all of those that will be invited to the Wedding of the Lamb. "
Here is another: Testimony of an 8 year old girl:
We then arrived in a beautiful place where I could see the glory of God, and feel His Power. It was a big beautiful place. I saw many tables, so I asked the Lord, "Lord what are all these tables are for?" He said, "Servant, remember the Wedding of the Lamb, remember that on these tables we will celebrate the Wedding of the Lamb." I saw countless numbers of tables, and I could not see the end of them. There were angels at each table, so I asked the Lord, "Lord, why is there an angel at each table and at each chair?" The Lord said, "My servant, these angels are decorating the tables, these angels are getting ready each table because I am already preparing everything."
Dear brothers, those tables were so shiny, all of them were made of gold. The tables were very nicely decorated. I saw how each angel was putting on the fork, the knife, the spoon, the glasses, the dishes, all made of gold, so beautiful. The Lord told me, "Servant, tell My people to get ready because very soon I will take them with Me so they can come here and enjoy with Me in the Wedding of the Lamb."
I am convinced, you WANT to be left behind to face God's wrath. What can God do for people that insist on this? I think He will allow it. God honors our faith.
How can a Greek Aorist verb show something ABOUT to happen? It has no tense or timing included.
Anyone can claim John's use of Aorist verbs are either past tense or future tense. The truth is, they have no tense. All through the book, John writes events on his timeline at the very moment that event happens. When John write, the Day of His wrath is come, it means right then, at the time of the verse compared to the complete narrative.
Just as you are doing, some want to mess with the timing of Wrath and say it is just about to come, but not in chapter 6 - it comes later. Since John uses Aorist verbs almost exclusively, people can make the book say almost anything by twisting it.
Others want to change when the Two Witnesses show up. John's first mention of them is in chapter 11. Many imagine they really showed up at the beginning of the week, rather than just before the midpoint, imagining their testimony is for the first half of the week. But here John used FUTURE TENSE verbs - showing us that they showed up at the verse of first mention and their testimony is then FUTURE from that date.
Of course the marriage and supper have to wait for both the Bride and all the guests, which will be every participant of the first resurrection: the Bride of Christ, and the Old Testament saints, which will include the Two Witnesses and the martyrs of the Beasts. Since the martyrs of the Beast will be resurrected with the OT saints on the last dya of the week, at the 7th vial, the marriage is postponed until AFTER the 7th vial resurrection.
I guess you don't read much, or just don't believe the testimonies of the many who have died, gone to heaven, SAW with their own eyes the preparations for the marriage supper - tables spread as far as the eye can see along the River of life. Each table has chairs and NAMES of the saints who are to sit there. Some of these people have seen this and been told the preparations are all finished - heaven is now just waiting on the saints to arrive. These people got prayed back to their bodies so had to leave heaven.
Since these testimonies AGREE with scripture, I believe them. Here is one such testimony: 7 Columbia youths visited heaven: "We also could see the wedding banquet table, everything was already served. It had no beginning or end. We saw the chairs prepared for us. There was also crowns of eternal life that are ready to be taken by us. We saw delicious foods that are already set, for all of those that will be invited to the Wedding of the Lamb. "
Here is another: Testimony of an 8 year old girl:
We then arrived in a beautiful place where I could see the glory of God, and feel His Power. It was a big beautiful place. I saw many tables, so I asked the Lord, "Lord what are all these tables are for?" He said, "Servant, remember the Wedding of the Lamb, remember that on these tables we will celebrate the Wedding of the Lamb." I saw countless numbers of tables, and I could not see the end of them. There were angels at each table, so I asked the Lord, "Lord, why is there an angel at each table and at each chair?" The Lord said, "My servant, these angels are decorating the tables, these angels are getting ready each table because I am already preparing everything."
Dear brothers, those tables were so shiny, all of them were made of gold. The tables were very nicely decorated. I saw how each angel was putting on the fork, the knife, the spoon, the glasses, the dishes, all made of gold, so beautiful. The Lord told me, "Servant, tell My people to get ready because very soon I will take them with Me so they can come here and enjoy with Me in the Wedding of the Lamb."
I am convinced, you WANT to be left behind to face God's wrath. What can God do for people that insist on this? I think He will allow it. God honors our faith.